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#1
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Cartridge Alignment Problem
Hi,
I've recently bought a new Michell Gyro SE with Origin Live Silver tonearm and Reson Aciore cartridge. I have a problem with aligning the cartridge. I've used both the protractor that came with the Hi Fi News Test LP and the Turntable Basics (www.turntablebasics.com) protractor. Both protractors imply that for correct alignment there should be cartridge underhang and not overhang. This does not seem right to me. I've taken some photos to show you: http://www.patre.com/michell I'm pretty certain I've used both protractors correctly. Also can someone please tell me what order I should make the adjustments to my turntable ie tracking force, VTA adjustment etc. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks, Rupesh Patre |
#3
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I always thought that the stylus should be on the centred spot ? You seem
to have set the system up with the cartridge too far forward in the arm. I have usually found that the cartridge mounts at the back of the mounting lugs and that the additional lines are to get the cartridge parallel. Richard New Ash Green Hi-Fi Club wrote in message ... Hi, I've recently bought a new Michell Gyro SE with Origin Live Silver tonearm and Reson Aciore cartridge. I have a problem with aligning the cartridge. I've used both the protractor that came with the Hi Fi News Test LP and the Turntable Basics (www.turntablebasics.com) protractor. Both protractors imply that for correct alignment there should be cartridge underhang and not overhang. This does not seem right to me. I've taken some photos to show you: http://www.patre.com/michell I'm pretty certain I've used both protractors correctly. Also can someone please tell me what order I should make the adjustments to my turntable ie tracking force, VTA adjustment etc. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks, Rupesh Patre |
#4
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In article ,
"Richard Wall" wrote: I always thought that the stylus should be on the centred spot ? You seem to have set the system up with the cartridge too far forward in the arm. I have usually found that the cartridge mounts at the back of the mounting lugs and that the additional lines are to get the cartridge parallel. Richard New Ash Green Hi-Fi Club wrote in message ... Hi, I've recently bought a new Michell Gyro SE with Origin Live Silver tonearm and Reson Aciore cartridge. I have a problem with aligning the cartridge. I've used both the protractor that came with the Hi Fi News Test LP and the Turntable Basics (www.turntablebasics.com) protractor. Both protractors imply that for correct alignment there should be cartridge underhang and not overhang. This does not seem right to me. I've taken some photos to show you: http://www.patre.com/michell I'm pretty certain I've used both protractors correctly. Also can someone please tell me what order I should make the adjustments to my turntable ie tracking force, VTA adjustment etc. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks, Rupesh Patre Maybe too obvious, but think that it is the diamond that needs to be in the right spot, this sometimes makes the cartridge look out of place... -- Joakim Wendel Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply. My homepage : http://violinist.nu |
#5
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Not even close. This used to be a high-end audio forum where you could
get good answers to those questions. Now it seems that all that is discussed are compressed digital formats on I-pods... At any rate, if the original poster wants some real info, he might try the Vinyl Asylum where there are quite a few knowledgable folks who will be eager to help. Basically, the question can't be answered short of asking for more info as we don't know why he can't align the cartridge without more info. First however, you need to establish the correct VTA. Second the correct overhang, which will eliminate any "position in the headshell" silliness. Third the VTF and fourth the anti-skating. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Richard Wall" wrote in message ... I always thought that the stylus should be on the centred spot ? You seem to have set the system up with the cartridge too far forward in the arm. I have usually found that the cartridge mounts at the back of the mounting lugs and that the additional lines are to get the cartridge parallel. Richard New Ash Green Hi-Fi Club wrote in message ... Hi, I've recently bought a new Michell Gyro SE with Origin Live Silver tonearm and Reson Aciore cartridge. I have a problem with aligning the cartridge. I've used both the protractor that came with the Hi Fi News Test LP and the Turntable Basics (www.turntablebasics.com) protractor. Both protractors imply that for correct alignment there should be cartridge underhang and not overhang. This does not seem right to me. I've taken some photos to show you: http://www.patre.com/michell I'm pretty certain I've used both protractors correctly. Also can someone please tell me what order I should make the adjustments to my turntable ie tracking force, VTA adjustment etc. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks, Rupesh Patre |
#6
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Uptown Audio wrote:
Not even close. This used to be a high-end audio forum where you could get good answers to those questions. Now it seems that all that is discussed are compressed digital formats on I-pods... At any rate, if the original poster wants some real info, he might try the Vinyl Asylum where there are quite a few knowledgable folks who will be eager to help. Basically, the question can't be answered short of asking for more info as we don't know why he can't align the cartridge without more info. First however, you need to establish the correct VTA. Second the correct overhang, which will eliminate any "position in the headshell" silliness. Third the VTF and fourth the anti-skating. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 I have not read much about compressed formats on Ipods, rather about DBT and Harry Lavos variant of it. It also seems the phono affectionados are in a minority here, due to the sound and maintainance problems that come with it, as well in the OP. Now it doesn't make sense to lament about changes that time brings, especially not by a top-poster. It seems your newsreader is not configured rightly. I use OE-quotefix http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ which will put your response and your sig to the bottom. What refers to the OP, my impression is that the arm is not mounted in the right position or has to be shortened. The cart suspension is normed and should not be modified, though many carriers allow for horizontal length adjustment, but not more than a few millimeters(~0.2"). -- ciao Ban Bordighera, Italy |
#7
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In article , "Ban"
wrote: Uptown Audio wrote: Not even close. This used to be a high-end audio forum where you could get good answers to those questions. Now it seems that all that is discussed are compressed digital formats on I-pods... At any rate, if the original poster wants some real info, he might try the Vinyl Asylum where there are quite a few knowledgable folks who will be eager to help. Basically, the question can't be answered short of asking for more info as we don't know why he can't align the cartridge without more info. First however, you need to establish the correct VTA. Second the correct overhang, which will eliminate any "position in the headshell" silliness. Third the VTF and fourth the anti-skating. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 I have not read much about compressed formats on Ipods, rather about DBT and Harry Lavos variant of it. It also seems the phono affectionados are in a minority here, due to the sound and maintainance problems that come with it, As to sound: that, of course, is a matter of opinion. :-) |
#8
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Uptown Audio wrote:
Not even close. This used to be a high-end audio forum where you could get good answers to those questions. Now it seems that all that is discussed are compressed digital formats on I-pods... At any rate, if the original poster wants some real info, he might try the Vinyl Asylum where there are quite a few knowledgable folks who will be eager to help. Basically, the question can't be answered short of asking for more info as we don't know why he can't align the cartridge without more info. First however, you need to establish the correct VTA. Second the correct overhang, which will eliminate any "position in the headshell" silliness. Third the VTF and fourth the anti-skating. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 Sorry but these are some pretty bad answers IMO. First of all we don't even know if the poster has failed to align his cartridge. Azimuth and antiskate compensation are two different things and he seems to think they are one thing. *If* the protractors are telling him the overhang is right then it's right. That has nothing to do with azimuth or antiskate force. 1. Proper alignment of a cartridge in the headshell is not fixed by adjusting overhang and VTA. They are seperate geometrical issues. This is terrible advice. The FIRST thing one must do is get the cartridge/headshell geometry right. That means geting the cantiliver in the right direction in the headshell. That has to be done right, it has to be done first and no other adjustment will fix it if it isn't right. 2. Overhang is adjusted before VTA and tracking force. There is no way to know if the VTA and tracking force are right if the overhang is wrong. Period. Changes in VTA and tracking force in theory affect overhang but if you do the math you will realize the real effect is microscopic. So get the overhang right first. Start with the recomended tracking force of the manufacturer and start with a level VTA. Then set the antiskate force in relationship to the tracking force. Then use the test record to adjust the antiskate force. Then adjust VTA and tracking force by ear. Evey time you adjust tracking force you must readjust antisakte force. *If* your arm allows for azimuth adjustments do that after setting the tracking force as per manufacturer's recomendations and after starting VTA at level and after initial setting of antiskate force. But do it before fine tuning VTA and tracking force et al. Scott Wheeler |
#9
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I have been out of the vinyl business for over 20 years having switched
to CD. I still have a few LPs and a turntable. As I recall, an offset arm would have a stylus OVERHANG of about 3/8" when properly set up. If the alignment jig indicates an UNDERhang then I would suspect the jig is not being used properly. The normal setup procedure would be - level arm, proper overhang, azimuth (using a mirror), VTA (if adjustment is possible), tracking force (using a gauge not by sound), anti skating. Many people feel that anti skating is not really needed, that the effect varies with program material (loud or soft) and where on the record you check it. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#10
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I just looked at your photos. Because of the angles the pictures are
taken from, it's hard to be sure but it looks like the double lines on the protractor are not aimed precisely at the arm pivot. If these lines were not so aimed, the protractor would give you an incorrect overhang position. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#11
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On 3 Jun 2005 20:31:04 GMT, Jenn wrote:
In article , "Ban" wrote: I have not read much about compressed formats on Ipods, rather about DBT and Harry Lavos variant of it. It also seems the phono affectionados are in a minority here, due to the sound and maintainance problems that come with it, As to sound: that, of course, is a matter of opinion. :-) Not really. Even those who *prefer* vinyl, generally acknowledge the *technical* limitations of the medium. There are others who are simply in denial, but that's life for you! :-) -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#12
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---MIKE--- wrote:
Many people feel that anti skating is not really needed, that the effect varies with program material (loud or soft) and where on the record you check it. I am not going to say it doesn't matter (unless you have a linear tracking arm) but skating force does vary with drag, and therefore with groove modulations, loud or soft; also since drag also varies with velocity, which decreases as the stylus approaches the center of the record; and since the skating vector is derived from the angle at which the groove is traveling under the stylus relative to stylus-pivot axis, skating force does vary as to where on the record you check it. Speaking of linear tracking arms: one of my cartridges, with which I have a Ken Kessler-type love/hate relationship, is the Decca Super Gold. In no pivoted arm has it ever performed as well as it does in an ancient Rabco SL-8, with a custom arm tube and headshell adapted to plug in, using the same Amphenol connector that Rabco used; mounted on an ancient AR-XA turntable with a bolt-on suspension adapter to hold and suspend the Rabco. None of it was designed with complicated computer analysis; only by cut-and-try, see-how-it-works mechanics. In the Rabco/AR it tracks better and is more consistently well-behaved than in any other arm/turntable I have tried. When I get the urge to listen to records with a Decca, it's easier and more advantageous to swap the entire turntable, than it is to swap out whatever I have in the "main" turntable's arm and swap in the Decca. -GP |
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