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#1
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Hi all
I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? thanks in advance! |
#2
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"rooy" wrote ...
I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. Yes, that is a simplified summary of the rule. There is more to it than that (such as the resulting impedance from wiring speakers in parallel, and in all manner of series/parallel arrangements.) What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. The simple explanation is that the resulting power will be split among the speakers according to their impednce. Two speakers with identical impedance will each receive 50% of the power. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, Yes, you will have an 8-ohm load on *each* channel. this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). It should be of no particular danger to your amp. Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? The total power will be *shared* between the speakers, whether they are wired in series or parallel) according to their relative impedances. Theoretically, the total sound will be the same, but the sound from *each* speaker will be a fraction of the total. Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? There are way too many variables and situations to make any global pronouncements about this. If you want to ask about a specific situation, it would be easier to respond. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Richard Crowley wrote:
"rooy" wrote ... I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. Yes, that is a simplified summary of the rule. There is more to it than that (such as the resulting impedance from wiring speakers in parallel, and in all manner of series/parallel arrangements.) What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. The simple explanation is that the resulting power will be split among the speakers according to their impednce. Two speakers with identical impedance will each receive 50% of the power. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, Yes, you will have an 8-ohm load on *each* channel. this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). It should be of no particular danger to your amp. Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? The total power will be *shared* between the speakers, whether they are wired in series or parallel) according to their relative impedances. Theoretically, the total sound will be the same, but the sound from *each* speaker will be a fraction of the total. Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? There are way too many variables and situations to make any global pronouncements about this. If you want to ask about a specific situation, it would be easier to respond. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the OP will probably be satisfied with the results. Volume will be roughly equal, since you're adding speakers...but losing amp power with the 8-ohm load vs 4-ohms. What you will lose is the 'point source' characteristics of your boxes. However closely they now come to this ideal, they will then be half as good. FWIW, this idea that a point source is theoretically best for reproducing sound, is based on the slight differences in time that the sound from the various drivers arrive at your ears with a typical speaker system. This is due to the slight difference in distance of each driver from the listening position. You will be complicating that equation somewhat by adding another box, with another set of drivers all at a slight offset. Whether it will sound 'better' is a matter of conjecture. If you don't already have the additional set of speakers, I'd look elsewhere for improvement. Spend the money on a more powerful amp or--bigger/better/more accurate/more efficient--speakers. jak |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Speakers connected in series will satisfy to have a higher impedance.
The power will be shared between the speakers. The damping factor will be much lower due to the added series resistance between the drivers. Because the speaker drivers would be very difficult to be matched for phase and efficiency, there will be some phase distortions introduced. The proper solution is to have a proper pair of speakers and an amplifier that can handle the load. -- JANA _____ "rooy" wrote in message ... Hi all I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? thanks in advance! |
#5
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wiring loudspeakers in series
On Jun 24, 7:38 am, "JANA" wrote:
Speakers connected in series will satisfy to have a higher impedance. The power will be shared between the speakers. The damping factor will be much lower due to the added series resistance between the drivers. First, the "damping factor" is a pretty meaningless and useless measure, so let's drop it. For an explanation of this, see www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/DampingFactor.pdf Secondly, since the original poster states: "Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. " if you are wiring two speakers that are the same in series, the measure of how well the speakers are damped, the "Q" factors, will remain same as one of them alone. This is clearly illustrated in www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/SeriesSpeaker.pdf Because the speaker drivers would be very difficult to be matched for phase and efficiency, there will be some phase distortions introduced. Since the original poster states: "Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. " if the speakers are the same models, they will be matched as well as any two speakers of the same model are. What differences in phase and efficiency might exist between the two will be completely swamped by the effects of the room and by the fact that two speakers cannot physically occupy the same point in 3-d space. The proper solution is to have a proper pair of speakers and an amplifier that can handle the load. No, the proper solution is to understand the proper way of doing it and what happens. A "proper pair of speakers and an amp[lifier that can handle the load" is merely ONE of a number proper solutions. The scheme proposed by the original poster is yat another equally vaid and proper solution. |
#6
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wiring loudspeakers in series
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am in error but:
Won't the *total* power be halved? Twice the impedance so half the current. If you want to have some fun that is not a "proper solution" then put the speakers behind you and wire them in series between the 'live' connections of the left and right speaker outputs. Back in the seventies that sort of thing made people say "Wow, far out man". at least it did wher I lived. Roger Thorpe I seem to remember Yessongs was best for that. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"rooy" wrote in message ... Hi all I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? thanks in advance! The total power delivered to the 8-Ohm combination of series speakers will be 1/2 that of one 4-Ohm speaker, as has been pointed out. That's a 3 dB reduction in total delivered power. Because of the series arrangement, each speaker will receive 1/2 of that power. That's another 3 dB reduction, per speaker. If you're not sure what that means in terms of loudness, and have ever watched a meter with dB markings as you listened, it's the same thing (a dB is a dB). If the speakers are in separate rooms, expect each to be 6 dB quieter than the starting scenario (one speaker per amp channel). The amplifier will be quite happy with this lighter load, and if you can turn it up as loud as you might ever want without clipping, then you're good to go. If the speakers are in the same room, but not near each other, expect to pick up roughly 3 dB, compared to separate rooms, so now you're back to only a 3 dB reduction from the starting scenario (one speaker per amplifier channel). If each of the two series-connected speakers is very near the other, and pointed in the same direction, expect to pick up 6 dB, compared to the separate rooms scenario, but only on axis with the speakers, and in the plane defined by the relative positions of the speakers. For example, if the speakers are one above the other, this 6 dB increase will extend horizontally, but you'll actually get less output as you move vertically from the on-axis plane. You'll also get some vertically off-axis lobing (peaks and nulls at various vertical angles) at various frequencies. This applies for higher freqencies, and the starting point, frequency-wise, is determined by the distance between the speaker centers. This scenario, in the horizontal plane, will have roughly the acoustic output of the starting scenario. You've lost 3 dB in the impedance change to 8 Ohms, but you've picked up 3 dB horizontally from the stacking of the speakers. This can make the room sound less "live" as more sound is directed into the listener space, and less to the floor and ceiling. For two small speakers, the effect will be minimal. As for "damping factor," if the speakers are identical, then the damping will be actually increased slightly by this series arrangement - but only very slightly. You now have an 8-Ohm equivalent device "looking back" into the low source impedance of the amp, so the damping factor will be twice that of the 4-Ohm scenario. Damping factor is a mythological thing, however, since the amplifier, as long is its source impedance is relatively low (has a damping factor of at least 10) has pretty much lost control of total speaker damping, since electrical damping is swamped by the resistance of the voice coil -- relatively little is in the source impedance of the amp. That may bring on some screaming from the purists, but it's the plain truth. Variations between speakers (such as different cone resonance frequency) are more likely to change the damping of each speaker at any given frequency, but it's not of consequence as long as the speakers are similar. I think you should hook them up and see how they do. -- Earl |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"Roger Thorpe" wrote...
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am in error but: Won't the *total* power be halved? Twice the impedance so half the current. Yes. I said: "Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... "Roger Thorpe" wrote... I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am in error but: Won't the *total* power be halved? Twice the impedance so half the current. Yes. I said: "Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But since you have twice as many speakers radiating into the same space, the electro-acoustical efficiency will increase. How much will depend on where they are situated relative to each other and the room, and frequency of course. Then of course the amplifier may be more voltage than current limited, so will provide more than half the power into twice the impedance before clipping. Very few amps have a simple direct relationship between max power output and load impedance. If he already has the speakers, just how hard is it to simply try it for himself. If not, I tend to agree with some of the other posts here, in that it would not necessarily be my first option. MrT. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"Earl Kiosterud" wrote in message news:m678k.3$od.0@trnddc07... The total power delivered to the 8-Ohm combination of series speakers will be 1/2 that of one 4-Ohm speaker, as has been pointed out. But NOT necessarily the *maximum* power output for any given amp, at a given distortion level. That's a 3 dB reduction in total delivered power. Possibly more or less than that, depending on the amp. MrT. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Yeah, that's true, and I wished I'd mentioned it. Most amps, with the lighter 8-Ohm, will
provide a little more power then you'd expect at that load with a constant power supply. Maybe we can say that we'd have about a 2 dB reduction with 2 speakers in series. -- Earl "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Earl Kiosterud" wrote in message news:m678k.3$od.0@trnddc07... The total power delivered to the 8-Ohm combination of series speakers will be 1/2 that of one 4-Ohm speaker, as has been pointed out. But NOT necessarily the *maximum* power output for any given amp, at a given distortion level. That's a 3 dB reduction in total delivered power. Possibly more or less than that, depending on the amp. MrT. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"Mr.T" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote ... "Roger Thorpe" wrote... I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am in error but: Won't the *total* power be halved? Twice the impedance so half the current. Yes. I said: "Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But since you have twice as many speakers radiating into the same space, the electro-acoustical efficiency will increase. But it will be offset by the decrease in power being used by each speaker. You'll be lucky to maintain the same SPL. How much will depend on where they are situated relative to each other and the room, and frequency of course. Maybe, but unlikely. Then of course the amplifier may be more voltage than current limited, so will provide more than half the power into twice the impedance before clipping. Very few amps have a simple direct relationship between max power output and load impedance. You must have experience with very different amps than I have dealt with. IME they are typically both voltage AND current-limited. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... Yes. I said: "Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But since you have twice as many speakers radiating into the same space, the electro-acoustical efficiency will increase. But it will be offset by the decrease in power being used by each speaker. You'll be lucky to maintain the same SPL. Maybe so, maybe not, depending on many factors we don't know. But you'll almost certainly get more than half the radiated acoustic power. How much will depend on where they are situated relative to each other and the room, and frequency of course. Maybe, but unlikely. Not unlikely at all. Almost definitely so, but as I already said, the amount in this case is unknown to me AND you. Therfore not worth abject conjecture. Then of course the amplifier may be more voltage than current limited, so will provide more than half the power into twice the impedance before clipping. Very few amps have a simple direct relationship between max power output and load impedance. You must have experience with very different amps than I have dealt with. IME they are typically both voltage AND current-limited. But NOT to the exact same extent! ALL the ones I have measured provide slightly, or significantly more than half the power into 8ohms as into 4 ohms, because most amps use unregulated power supplies with finite current capability. MrT. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Roger Thorpe wrote:
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am in error but: Won't the *total* power be halved? Twice the impedance so half the current. If you want to have some fun that is not a "proper solution" then put the speakers behind you and wire them in series between the 'live' connections of the left and right speaker outputs. Back in the seventies that sort of thing made people say "Wow, far out man". at least it did wher I lived. Roger Thorpe I seem to remember Yessongs was best for that. Few amps put out exactly half the power into an 8-ohm load as they do to a 4-ohm load. Most will do somewhat better than that, according to most of the spec sheets I've read; and the direct testing I've done. The scenario you describe would only hold true if the input signal remained exactly the same level. Most people would simply turn it up.... jak |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
In article , jakdedert wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote: "rooy" wrote ... I've searched the web a bit and I understood that if I wire the speakers in series the resulting impedance is simply the sum of all the impedances of each speaker. Yes, that is a simplified summary of the rule. There is more to it than that (such as the resulting impedance from wiring speakers in parallel, and in all manner of series/parallel arrangements.) What isn't clear to me however is the actual result that you hear with this configuration. The simple explanation is that the resulting power will be split among the speakers according to their impednce. Two speakers with identical impedance will each receive 50% of the power. Suppose I have a 100W stereo amplifier, with 4 Ohm on each channel, and that I want to use 4 identical 50W/4Ohm loudspeakers. If I wire on each channel 2 speakers in series, I'll get 8 Ohm impedance on both channels, Yes, you will have an 8-ohm load on *each* channel. this should be ok to work with for the 4 Ohm amplifier (please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm about to blow up my amp!!!). It should be of no particular danger to your amp. Note that you will generally get only half the power into an 8-ohm load (however many speakers that is) than you would with a 4-ohm load (into however many speakers). But what results I am going to get? The resulting sound will be louder or quieter? The total power will be *shared* between the speakers, whether they are wired in series or parallel) according to their relative impedances. Theoretically, the total sound will be the same, but the sound from *each* speaker will be a fraction of the total. Are there benefits/drawbacks? Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that? There are way too many variables and situations to make any global pronouncements about this. If you want to ask about a specific situation, it would be easier to respond. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the OP will probably be satisfied with the results. Volume will be roughly equal, since you're adding speakers...but losing amp power with the 8-ohm load vs 4-ohms. What you will lose is the 'point source' characteristics of your boxes. However closely they now come to this ideal, they will then be half as good. FWIW, this idea that a point source is theoretically best for reproducing sound, is based on the slight differences in time that the sound from the various drivers arrive at your ears with a typical speaker system. This is due to the slight difference in distance of each driver from the listening position. You will be complicating that equation somewhat by adding another box, with another set of drivers all at a slight offset. Whether it will sound 'better' is a matter of conjecture. If you don't already have the additional set of speakers, I'd look elsewhere for improvement. Spend the money on a more powerful amp or--bigger/better/more accurate/more efficient--speakers. jak For all we know the speakers are in different rooms. greg |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
GregS wrote:
snip Whether it will sound 'better' is a matter of conjecture. If you don't already have the additional set of speakers, I'd look elsewhere for improvement. Spend the money on a more powerful amp or--bigger/better/more accurate/more efficient--speakers. jak For all we know the speakers are in different rooms. greg Possibly, but the last line from the OP; "Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that?", leads me to believe they will all reside in the same space. Otherwise, he'd have to turn them up a great deal to cover another room...unless he's planning to put the left speaker in one room, and the right in another. Stranger things have happened.... jak |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
"jakdedert" wrote in message .. . GregS wrote: For all we know the speakers are in different rooms. Or more accurately, we don't know. Possibly, but the last line from the OP; "Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that?", leads me to believe they will all reside in the same space. That was my take too, but you can only make assumptions when the details are not spelled out. MrT. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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wiring loudspeakers in series
Mr.T wrote:
"jakdedert" wrote in message .. . GregS wrote: For all we know the speakers are in different rooms. Or more accurately, we don't know. Possibly, but the last line from the OP; "Or is it better to just wire one speaker to each channel and live happy with that?", leads me to believe they will all reside in the same space. That was my take too, but you can only make assumptions when the details are not spelled out. MrT. ....and a week has gone by. The OP hasn't chimed in to clarify. People start these discussions among us with a single post, and never check back in. For all we know, he didn't really have the speakers, has ignored all the advice given, and was never really in the situation described at all. IOW, a troll...? jak |
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