[[email protected]]

Hi,

Just purchased one of these early-sixties machines, and a tech friend
is
going to have a look at it in case any caps etc need replacing, or if
there
are any other ailments. I have a few queries though.

1. It didn't come with a power cable. The equipment I'm used to is
from the
'kettle plug' era, and this is a bit different. As seen in the
photograph
'tr52rear', at the bottom left of the machine there's a three prong
connector with round prongs and a round plug. Is there a specific name
for
this type of connector, to aid me in searching for one?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52rear.jpg

2. Please forgive the shortcomings of my technical vocabulary, I'm not
used
to talking about tape machines, although I've used a couple regularly
over
the past ten years. The threaded 'protruberances' (!) that you put the
tape
spools on don't have any 'screw-on caps', although there is a small
fold-down leg that looks like it's meant to hold the spool in place.
The
machine (not mine) shown at the link immediately below however
exhibits
silver screw-on cap reel holder onners, so I take it my machine would
have
had similar, originally. What are the fold down leg things for then?
Would
they likely be up to the job of holding the reels in place?

http://ingenious.org.uk/media/4.0_SA...10214961_3.jpg

3. The tape machines I've owned so far are a Fostex R8 (1/4" 8 track),
and
an Otari MX5050 (1/2" 8 track). The EMI TR-52 has a silver 'wheel'
that I
don't know the function of (is it called a fly wheel?!), situated
between
where the two reels sit. What's it for?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52top.jpg

4. What sort of tape should I be looking for? Quarter inch, yes, but
any
particular thickness? I think it's a seven inch reel.

5. What's the likelihood of obtaining a manual, or a PDF of a manual
for
this machine? I tried Googling, to no avail. Couldn't find much in the
way
of specifications.

Looking forward to trying it out, if we can get it working. It
certainly
looks in good condition.


Thanks,


Richard.
www.myspace.com/thefiveaces
www.myspace.com/thebottleneckers

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

1. It didn't come with a power cable. The equipment I'm used to is
from the
'kettle plug' era, and this is a bit different. As seen in the
photograph
'tr52rear', at the bottom left of the machine there's a three prong
connector with round prongs and a round plug. Is there a specific name
for
this type of connector, to aid me in searching for one?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52rear.jpg

This is a goofy British connector that appeared on a lot of British
electronics. The guys at your local ironmongers should know what it is
and have a replacement. There's actually a BS for it. It appeared on
TV sets, movie projectors, and all kinds of British gear including a lot
of Quad stuff. Nobody in the US will have ever seen one.

2. Please forgive the shortcomings of my technical vocabulary, I'm not
used
to talking about tape machines, although I've used a couple regularly
over
the past ten years. The threaded 'protruberances' (!) that you put the
tape
spools on don't have any 'screw-on caps', although there is a small
fold-down leg that looks like it's meant to hold the spool in place.

The reel spindles (which come out of the turntables) have no caps. That's
fine, and these machines probably were not used much with them anyway.
A good machinist can make some for you.

This machine won't accept 10" reels anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

The
machine (not mine) shown at the link immediately below however
exhibits
silver screw-on cap reel holder onners, so I take it my machine would
have
had similar, originally. What are the fold down leg things for then?
Would
they likely be up to the job of holding the reels in place?

http://ingenious.org.uk/media/4.0_SA...10214961_3.jpg

Yes, and latching them.


3. The tape machines I've owned so far are a Fostex R8 (1/4" 8 track),
and
an Otari MX5050 (1/2" 8 track). The EMI TR-52 has a silver 'wheel'
that I
don't know the function of (is it called a fly wheel?!), situated
between
where the two reels sit. What's it for?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52top.jpg

It's a flutter idler system. It's a goofy British thing.

4. What sort of tape should I be looking for? Quarter inch, yes, but
any
particular thickness? I think it's a seven inch reel.

Yes, you're limited to a 7" reel on this machine. My suspicion is that
you will need an old-fashioned red-oxide tape of a sort that is no longer
manufactured, but you can try RMGI SM911. Set the bias and find the peak
at 10 KHz rather than using the method in the manual. If you cannot find
the peak, you're going to need to use a red oxide tape like Ampex 641.

I believe that JAI Magnetics in Mumbai is still making a red oxide tape
but I don't know if they have any distribution in the UK or how often
they are actually running production.

5. What's the likelihood of obtaining a manual, or a PDF of a manual
for
this machine? I tried Googling, to no avail. Couldn't find much in the
way
of specifications.

I don't know, but you NEED a manual. Otherwise you are stuck reverse
engineering a lot of weird stuff. It's hard to get in the minds of the
folks designing some of this gear, much more so than American gear of
the same era.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

On 11 Feb 2008 10:57:53 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

1. It didn't come with a power cable. The equipment I'm used to is
from the
'kettle plug' era, and this is a bit different. As seen in the
photograph
'tr52rear', at the bottom left of the machine there's a three prong
connector with round prongs and a round plug. Is there a specific name
for
this type of connector, to aid me in searching for one?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52rear.jpg

This is a goofy British connector that appeared on a lot of British
electronics. The guys at your local ironmongers should know what it is
and have a replacement. There's actually a BS for it. It appeared on
TV sets, movie projectors, and all kinds of British gear including a lot
of Quad stuff. Nobody in the US will have ever seen one.

Yup, this is an old connector made here by Bulgin.

http://www.vintagehi-fi.co.uk/spares.html

still have them, and I imagine they will be happy to export.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[[email protected]]

On 11 Feb, 15:57, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
It's a flutter idler system. *It's a goofy British thing.

I take it then that it'll be involved in the tape threading path?


Yes, you're limited to a 7" reel on this machine.

I think I read somewhere that you can use a 8" reel if you take that
wee flutter idler thing off, but for all I know 8" is a non-existant
reel size. I'll go for 7". :-)

My suspicion is that you will need an old-fashioned red-oxide tape of a
sort that is no longer manufactured, but you can try RMGI SM911.

Sounds ominous! Cheers for the tips.

I don't know, but you NEED a manual. *Otherwise you are stuck reverse
engineering a lot of weird stuff. *It's hard to get in the minds of the
folks designing some of this gear, much more so than American gear of
the same era. *

Who knows, mibbe with us being British it'll make some kinda goofy
sense to us. :-)


Cheers,

Richard.

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the info Don, I'll have a look at that in a sec.

Another question I forgot to ask:

There are input sockets which look like 1/4" jacks on the machine, I'm
just wondering if there's a chance that it could be something similar
to a 1/4" jack but not quite exactly the same as they are now? The
jack fits in the socket, but just felt different to the normal at the
last part of insertion.


Cheers,

Richard.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
On 11 Feb, 15:57, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
It's a flutter idler system. =A0It's a goofy British thing.

I take it then that it'll be involved in the tape threading path?

According to the diagram on the top of the machine it is.

Yes, you're limited to a 7" reel on this machine.

I think I read somewhere that you can use a 8" reel if you take that
wee flutter idler thing off, but for all I know 8" is a non-existant
reel size. I'll go for 7". :-)

There were some 8" reels made in the fifties, and I have one somewhere,
but it's not something you can get.

My suspicion is that you will need an old-fashioned red-oxide tape of a
sort that is no longer manufactured, but you can try RMGI SM911.

Sounds ominous! Cheers for the tips.

I don't know, but you NEED a manual. =A0Otherwise you are stuck reverse
engineering a lot of weird stuff. =A0It's hard to get in the minds of the
folks designing some of this gear, much more so than American gear of
the same era. =A0

Who knows, mibbe with us being British it'll make some kinda goofy
sense to us. :-)

Maybe, but it's a very different sort of design aesthetic than you encounter
today. It does seem like British gear of that era is designed by people
who think it's always better to use ten parts when one would do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:17:13 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Thanks for the info Don, I'll have a look at that in a sec.

Another question I forgot to ask:

There are input sockets which look like 1/4" jacks on the machine, I'm
just wondering if there's a chance that it could be something similar
to a 1/4" jack but not quite exactly the same as they are now? The
jack fits in the socket, but just felt different to the normal at the
last part of insertion.


It could be a PO (post office) jack - otherwise known as a long frame
jack. The big difference to the normal one is the tip, which is a much
smaller diameter; if you are putting normal ones in, that could
account for the different feel to the last bit. They are the ones you
see on old bits of film of manual plugboard telephone exchanges.

d
..
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
wrote:
Thanks for the info Don, I'll have a look at that in a sec.

Another question I forgot to ask:

There are input sockets which look like 1/4" jacks on the machine, I'm
just wondering if there's a chance that it could be something similar
to a 1/4" jack but not quite exactly the same as they are now? The
jack fits in the socket, but just felt different to the normal at the
last part of insertion.

They could be long-frame jacks. Look inside... if the contact springs
are a couple inches long, you will need long-frame plugs to prevent
damaging the springs. ADC, Switchcraft, and Neutrik all make good ones,
since long-frame plugs are still common in patchbays.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
Hi,

Just purchased one of these early-sixties machines, and a tech friend
is
going to have a look at it in case any caps etc need replacing, or if
there
are any other ailments. I have a few queries though.

1. It didn't come with a power cable. The equipment I'm used to is
from the
'kettle plug' era, and this is a bit different. As seen in the
photograph
'tr52rear', at the bottom left of the machine there's a three prong
connector with round prongs and a round plug. Is there a specific name
for
this type of connector, to aid me in searching for one?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52rear.jpg

2. Please forgive the shortcomings of my technical vocabulary, I'm not
used
to talking about tape machines, although I've used a couple regularly
over
the past ten years. The threaded 'protruberances' (!) that you put the
tape
spools on don't have any 'screw-on caps', although there is a small
fold-down leg that looks like it's meant to hold the spool in place.
The
machine (not mine) shown at the link immediately below however
exhibits
silver screw-on cap reel holder onners, so I take it my machine would
have
had similar, originally. What are the fold down leg things for then?
Would
they likely be up to the job of holding the reels in place?

http://ingenious.org.uk/media/4.0_SA...10214961_3.jpg

3. The tape machines I've owned so far are a Fostex R8 (1/4" 8 track),
and
an Otari MX5050 (1/2" 8 track). The EMI TR-52 has a silver 'wheel'
that I
don't know the function of (is it called a fly wheel?!), situated
between
where the two reels sit. What's it for?

http://www.thefiveaces.co.uk/images/tr52top.jpg

4. What sort of tape should I be looking for? Quarter inch, yes, but
any
particular thickness? I think it's a seven inch reel.

5. What's the likelihood of obtaining a manual, or a PDF of a manual
for
this machine? I tried Googling, to no avail. Couldn't find much in the
way
of specifications.

Looking forward to trying it out, if we can get it working. It
certainly
looks in good condition.


Hi Richard. I have a picture on my wall, just a metre from
when I am sitting, with me in front of a TR51 and TR52.
I was 20 at the time! It's a long long time ago.

The maximum reel-size is 8 1/4 inches. This was a
standard size but not too common.

The mains input connector, as Don mentioned, is the
Bulgin connector, which was common then on prof
audio equipment in the UK. Leak amplifiers used
them also. They are no longer an approved pattern.

The jacks are PO (post office type) They are still
available NOS.

The machine works well, but W+F leaves a little to
be desired.

Enjoy:-)
Iain

[[email protected]]

On 11 Feb, 17:06, "Iain Churches" wrote:
Hi Richard. *I have a picture on my wall, just a metre from
when I am sitting, with me in front of a TR51 and TR52.
I was 20 at the time! *It's a long long time ago.

Hi Iain,
Was it yourself who used the machines at that time? What type of stuff
were they used for?

Anybody else any idea where a (copy of the) manual might be obtained
for the machine?

Richard.

[Scott Dorsey]

Audix Unavailable wrote:

The TR52 was available in either 3 3/4 - 7 1/2 ips or 7 1/2 - 15 ips
versions. Wow & Flutter was poor on the lowest speed and barely
adequate at 7 1/2. I would imagine the 15 ips version was better of
course.

Was the capstan direct drive or not? And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 12 Feb, 15:21, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Was the capstan direct drive or not? *And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?

If it's the wee silver wheel thing you're referring to, Scott, Audix
says:
"The guide in the centre of the deck was used to feed the tape up
over
the take up spool so that it wound oxide out."

Cheers for the further info. Feel like I'm starting to get somewhere,
even if it's silent wow and flutter with no tape!

I don't find the machine that heavy, and I'm no Geoff Capes. It's a
breeze to lift compared with my Otari 1/2" 8 track, and compared to
our Hammond...well, no contest.

I found a site that has manuals for a lot of old machines, but
although they have circuit diagrams for the TR52, they have no manual:

http://www.bassboy.com.au/getreel/


R.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
wrote:
On 12 Feb, 15:21, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Was the capstan direct drive or not? =A0And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?

If it's the wee silver wheel thing you're referring to, Scott, Audix
says:
"The guide in the centre of the deck was used to feed the tape up
over
the take up spool so that it wound oxide out."

Right. And it's clearly also a flutter idler, even though it may not
have been designed to be. Does it move back and forth a bit or is it
static?

I found a site that has manuals for a lot of old machines, but
although they have circuit diagrams for the TR52, they have no manual:

http://www.bassboy.com.au/getreel/

That's 90% of what you need. And it's enough to do a full alignment.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 12 Feb, 16:16, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Right. *And it's clearly also a flutter idler, even though it may not
have been designed to be. *Does it move back and forth a bit or is it
static?

I never touched it!! Honest! Erm, I'll have a look next time I'm near
the machine.

That's 90% of what you need. *And it's enough to do a full alignment.

Cheers.

R.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
On 11 Feb, 17:06, "Iain Churches" wrote:
Hi Richard. I have a picture on my wall, just a metre from
when I am sitting, with me in front of a TR51 and TR52.
I was 20 at the time! It's a long long time ago.

Hi Iain,
Was it yourself who used the machines at that time? What type of stuff
were they used for?

Yes. I used and owned the two that I had. They were used
for making tape copies, and for replay in disc cutting.

I am told the BBC had large numbers of
these machines also (probably for copying also)

Anybody else any idea where a (copy of the) manual might be obtained
for the machine?

Try

http://www.mauritron.com/

regards
Iain

[Scott Dorsey]

Audix Unavailable wrote:
On 12 Feb 2008 10:21:43 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Was the capstan direct drive or not? And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?

I honestly don't remember Scott. This was 30 years ago!

See, these things never showed up on American soil, so I find them
fascinating. Same with Ferrographs.

The idler was purely a rotating guide and nothing to do with tension.
There was no tension servo or any such luxury.

The Nagra machines had a guide that moved back and forth and was
connected to a rod that went to the brake on the supply reel. The
mechanism was incredibly simple, but actually worked quite well.

Did the idler at least have a flywheel on it?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

I may be able to check the machine tonight if the guy who's going to
have a look at it hasn't moved it to his premises yet, to see if the
wheel comes off or moves about.

We usually mix on to a Leevers Rich machine (1/4"), and indeed one
time experimented with recording straight on to that with just a Coles
4038 through a V72 Preamp for the band and a Beyer M260 through
another V72 for the vocals, but as we weren't used to the recording
environment and rushed due to having to pay for the place (usually we
don't record in studios, just mix there) the recordings were a bit
mince, which was a good thing to remember, that taking time setting up
average gear beats rushing with supposedly great gear.

R.

p.s. I got some documentation (not the manual, but some info
nonetheless) pertaining to the machine from Geoff at the Bassboy site.

[[email protected]]

Had a look at the silver wheel on the TR-52 last night and it doesn't
move about or rotate, Scott. It just sits there, like a thing that
just sits there.

R.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Zerolevel" Reply to is valid wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2008 18:47:48 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Audix Unavailable wrote:
On 12 Feb 2008 10:21:43 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Was the capstan direct drive or not? And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?

I honestly don't remember Scott. This was 30 years ago!

See, these things never showed up on American soil, so I find them
fascinating. Same with Ferrographs.

The idler was purely a rotating guide and nothing to do with tension.
There was no tension servo or any such luxury.

The Nagra machines had a guide that moved back and forth and was
connected to a rod that went to the brake on the supply reel. The
mechanism was incredibly simple, but actually worked quite well.

Did the idler at least have a flywheel on it?
--scott


To answer in semi-reverse order:-

I don't remember there being a flywheel on the roller. It may even
have been removable. I never used spools larger than 7" so don't know
for certain. The original poster can best answer this as he has a
machine in front of him.

The underside of the deck mechanism was rather cramped and funnily
enough bore a passing resemblance to the old Ferrographs in some ways.

(The interesting Ferrograph was the professional Studio 8. This was
Ferrograph in name only, and was quite a good machine. This was from
the era when the brand name was part of the Wayne Kerr / Wilmot
Breeden empire).

Finally, if you like old British recorders, have a look at
Leevers-Rich. Apart from the 1/4" offerings, I first used their 1"
recorders in the latter part of the 1960s. All valves (tubes) of
course. The glow from these nicely complemented the heat rising from
the large dropper resistors used to feed the supply and take-up
motors. No constant tension on those beasts!


Leevers Rich valve (tube) machines are even rarer
than the valve (tube) Studers C37 and J37.

Even the LR E200 of which over 1500 were in use in the
London area alone, is now a difficult machine to find.

I have an ex BBC Leevers Rich E200 which I have restored.
It has solid state electronics and was built in 1973.
It peforms very well indeed.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...s%20Rich02.jpg

Going back to EMI for a moment, the best recorder of
theirs was the BTR2. There was also a SS BTR4 which
was not built in any quantity.

As far as Ferrograph is concerned. They used the same
Wearite deck as the Vortextion. The Vortexion CBL6
was a very good machine. I have one.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...texionCBL6.jpg


Iain

[[email protected]]

I don't know the model of the Leevers Rich machine we've mixed with in
the past, nor whether it's valve-based, and I couldn't see any in
Google images. It was a sort of cream/beige colour and looked
different to the one in your photo. 1/4" stereo. I take it it won't be
the rarer one because I saw a couple on eBay a few months back, think
one was ex-BBC.

Someone on www.vintagerecorders.co.uk forum recommended that BASF SP52
might be a good tape to look for for the EMI TR-52 machine. Anyone
know of any other equivalents, apart from what Scott has already
suggested?


Cheers,


Richard.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

Someone on www.vintagerecorders.co.uk forum recommended that BASF SP52
might be a good tape to look for for the EMI TR-52 machine. Anyone
know of any other equivalents, apart from what Scott has already
suggested?

BASF SP52 hasn't been made for decades, but it's about equivalent to
the (also discontinued) Ampex 641. Barn paint on mylar. It's all red
(gamma ferric) oxide and consequently has a much lower bias requirement
than a 1970's type HOLN tape or a modern mastering tape. Also will have
to be biased by peaking at 1 KC instead of using the overbias method at
10KC... it's a pain because the 1 KC peak is very wide and finding the
precise center can be hard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
I don't know the model of the Leevers Rich machine we've mixed with in
the past, nor whether it's valve-based, and I couldn't see any in
Google images. It was a sort of cream/beige colour and looked
different to the one in your photo. 1/4" stereo. I take it it won't be
the rarer one because I saw a couple on eBay a few months back, think
one was ex-BBC.

A the cream-beige colour gives it away. That was the
ProLine, which was AFAIK actually designed by one
of the Clarke brothers who in 1974 formed Klark Teknik.
It's not a machine that I would buy:-)

The origin of the Leevers Rich tape machine is an
interesting one, and was told to me by Fred Fleming,
who was a director of the company and ran the
Leevers Rich studio in Wardour Street. It seemed
that they were unable to find suitable 16mm and 35mm
film dubbing equipment for their studio use, and so
Norman Leevers decided they should build their own
(as many studios and recording facilities did in those
days) The building of the E series (mono or stereo
on 1/4 inch) and the H series (four tracks on 1/2 inch
or 1" to order) followed on from there. Their main
market was the BBC (for whom a special version
of the E series was built) and also local brosadcasting.

Iain

[jim Gregory]

wrote in message
...
I don't know the model of the Leevers Rich machine we've mixed with in
the past, nor whether it's valve-based, and I couldn't see any in
Google images. It was a sort of cream/beige colour and looked
different to the one in your photo. 1/4" stereo. I take it it won't be
the rarer one because I saw a couple on eBay a few months back, think
one was ex-BBC.

.........

Cheers,


Richard.

There was another short-lifespan low quantity machine made in the '70s -
solid-state, may be known as the Bias Electronics model, half-related to L-R
production..
Jim

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

There was another short-lifespan low quantity machine made in the '70s -
solid-state, may be known as the Bias Electronics model, half-related to
L-R production..


Aha yes. Bias Electronics, there's a name from
the past of glorious British audio engineering,
along with tape decks by Scopetronics and
Chilton. There was also a company called
Clarke and Smith (Melbourne Works,
Wallington Surrey UK) whose tape recorder
also used the Wearite deck as fitted to
Ferrograph and Vortextion.

As a young man, I saved hard for a tape
recorder by Bias Electronics. By the time
I had saved up the money, they were out
of business:-)

Iain

[jim Gregory]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

There was another short-lifespan low quantity machine made in the '70s -
solid-state, may be known as the Bias Electronics model, half-related to
L-R production..


Aha yes. Bias Electronics, there's a name from
the past of glorious British audio engineering,
along with tape decks by Scopetronics and
Chilton. There was also a company called
Clarke and Smith (Melbourne Works,
Wallington Surrey UK) whose tape recorder
also used the Wearite deck as fitted to
Ferrograph and Vortextion.

As a young man, I saved hard for a tape
recorder by Bias Electronics. By the time
I had saved up the money, they were out
of business:-)

Iain


So, Iain, what m/c did you buy instead?
I remember using 3 Chiltons in 1969,
and in 1974 I once examined a TRD (NAB reels?) made
by the firm that became Audio Developments of mixer fame.
I sadly never heard of Scopetronics!
Anybody remember the back-to-front (right reel feed to
left reel take-up), 1/2 track (but lower!) Motek deck as
used in Elizabethan valved domestic recorder? Ugh!

Were Clarke and Smith principally making stuff for RNIB
and blind users? Then went over to cassette decks.
I second Audix's msg that said the best Ferrograph (just in name)
was the Studio 8 Pro console. BFBS studios had several of them.
Jim

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

There was another short-lifespan low quantity machine made in the '70s -
solid-state, may be known as the Bias Electronics model, half-related to
L-R production..


Aha yes. Bias Electronics, there's a name from
the past of glorious British audio engineering,
along with tape decks by Scopetronics and
Chilton. There was also a company called
Clarke and Smith (Melbourne Works,
Wallington Surrey UK) whose tape recorder
also used the Wearite deck as fitted to
Ferrograph and Vortextion.

As a young man, I saved hard for a tape
recorder by Bias Electronics. By the time
I had saved up the money, they were out
of business:-)

So, Iain, what m/c did you buy instead?

Brenell Mk V. I also bought a separate Brenell
deck,a special with the spool motors pushed out
towards the corners so that it could accommodate
NAB spools. I built the Shirley Laboratories valve
/tube tamp amp to go with this. I was pleased as
punch with the end result.



I sadly never heard of Scopetronics!

They were trying very hard to break into the broadcast
market. Their deck was built like a battleship - a stainless
steel deck plate about 8mm thick, and large rotary controls
nearly the size of a modern CD for variable rewind etc. It
was an impressive machine. Scopetronics were at
Crown Works, Church Road, Kingston Upon Thames.
I went there several times to ogle:-)

Like most of the British manufacturers, they disappeared
once the Japanese Akai etc appeared. Very sad:-(


Were Clarke and Smith principally making stuff for RNIB
and blind users? Then went over to cassette decks.

The only Clarke and Smith machine I have ever seen
was the model 634 which looked very much like the
Ferrograph. There was no HS (15 ips model)

Regards
Iain

[jim Gregory]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...


"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


"jim Gregory" wrote in message
...

There was another short-lifespan low quantity machine made in the
'70s -
solid-state, may be known as the Bias Electronics model, half-related
to
L-R production..


Aha yes. Bias Electronics, there's a name from
the past of glorious British audio engineering,
along with tape decks by Scopetronics and
Chilton. There was also a company called
Clarke and Smith (Melbourne Works,
Wallington Surrey UK) whose tape recorder
also used the Wearite deck as fitted to
Ferrograph and Vortextion.

As a young man, I saved hard for a tape
recorder by Bias Electronics. By the time
I had saved up the money, they were out
of business:-)

So, Iain, what m/c did you buy instead?

Brenell Mk V. I also bought a separate Brenell
deck,a special with the spool motors pushed out
towards the corners so that it could accommodate
NAB spools. I built the Shirley Laboratories valve
/tube tamp amp to go with this. I was pleased as
punch with the end result.



I sadly never heard of Scopetronics!

They were trying very hard to break into the broadcast
market. Their deck was built like a battleship - a stainless
steel deck plate about 8mm thick, and large rotary controls
nearly the size of a modern CD for variable rewind etc. It
was an impressive machine. Scopetronics were at
Crown Works, Church Road, Kingston Upon Thames.
I went there several times to ogle:-)

Like most of the British manufacturers, they disappeared
once the Japanese Akai etc appeared. Very sad:-(


Were Clarke and Smith principally making stuff for RNIB
and blind users? Then went over to cassette decks.

The only Clarke and Smith machine I have ever seen
was the model 634 which looked very much like the
Ferrograph. There was no HS (15 ips model)

Regards
Iain



Brenell lasted quite a while.
Another aghast from the past was the copper-coloured Reflectograph, WIIRC
was issued by Bib [of cored solder fame] who also made that clumsy 1/4" tape
editing block with its pivoted cork clamps!
The Reflectograph could be set up, using foil tape inserts, to cascade
another machine, or two decks with foil strips could, say, deliver same
message yet in alternate languages. Some had a varispeed facility.
I do not know what its W&F figures were or how its recorded audio quality
was like.

Not forgetting Simon, Collaro and Truvox offerings.
But IMO not one UK domestic firm had the long-term know-how of Grundig,
Telefunken, Philips, etc
http://www.ferrographworld.com/best.htm

Jim

[[email protected]]

On Friday, 15 February 2008 07:30:20 UTC, Iain Churches wrote:
"Zerolevel" Reply to is valid wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2008 18:47:48 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Audix Unavailable wrote:
On 12 Feb 2008 10:21:43 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Was the capstan direct drive or not? And is that idler part of a
crude constant tension system?

I honestly don't remember Scott. This was 30 years ago!

See, these things never showed up on American soil, so I find them
fascinating. Same with Ferrographs.

The idler was purely a rotating guide and nothing to do with tension.
There was no tension servo or any such luxury.

The Nagra machines had a guide that moved back and forth and was
connected to a rod that went to the brake on the supply reel. The
mechanism was incredibly simple, but actually worked quite well.

Did the idler at least have a flywheel on it?
--scott


To answer in semi-reverse order:-

I don't remember there being a flywheel on the roller. It may even
have been removable. I never used spools larger than 7" so don't know
for certain. The original poster can best answer this as he has a
machine in front of him.

The underside of the deck mechanism was rather cramped and funnily
enough bore a passing resemblance to the old Ferrographs in some ways.

(The interesting Ferrograph was the professional Studio 8. This was
Ferrograph in name only, and was quite a good machine. This was from
the era when the brand name was part of the Wayne Kerr / Wilmot
Breeden empire).

Finally, if you like old British recorders, have a look at
Leevers-Rich. Apart from the 1/4" offerings, I first used their 1"
recorders in the latter part of the 1960s. All valves (tubes) of
course. The glow from these nicely complemented the heat rising from
the large dropper resistors used to feed the supply and take-up
motors. No constant tension on those beasts!


Leevers Rich valve (tube) machines are even rarer
than the valve (tube) Studers C37 and J37.

Even the LR E200 of which over 1500 were in use in the
London area alone, is now a difficult machine to find.

I have an ex BBC Leevers Rich E200 which I have restored.
It has solid state electronics and was built in 1973.
It peforms very well indeed.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...s%20Rich02.jpg

Going back to EMI for a moment, the best recorder of
theirs was the BTR2. There was also a SS BTR4 which
was not built in any quantity.

As far as Ferrograph is concerned. They used the same
Wearite deck as the Vortextion. The Vortexion CBL6
was a very good machine. I have one.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...texionCBL6.jpg


Iain

Do you by chance have a manual or circuit diagram as my E200 (ex beeb) had a couple of sparks from under the illuminated play buttons and now won't work

regards
neil