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ron caser
 
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Default L2 bass responce

i recently had the following problem:
i passed the 2-bus of my daw through a hardware L2 to chop off about
1.5db of the peaks and rerecord my master. as result the bass
(mini-moog) seems to be about 3db louder. in my mix prior limiting i'm
happy with its volume, but i need to reduce it when using the L2.
i had this same problem on 3 different tracks. i was kind of
astounished as i've been going through the same procedure a few months
earlier and don't remember having had this impression.
is this normal and my ears are developing? or is this not normal and
my ears are actually downgrading & fooling me?
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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default L2 bass responce

ron caser wrote:
i recently had the following problem:
i passed the 2-bus of my daw through a hardware L2 to chop off about
1.5db of the peaks and rerecord my master. as result the bass
(mini-moog) seems to be about 3db louder. in my mix prior limiting i'm
happy with its volume, but i need to reduce it when using the L2.
i had this same problem on 3 different tracks. i was kind of
astounished as i've been going through the same procedure a few months
earlier and don't remember having had this impression.
is this normal and my ears are developing? or is this not normal and
my ears are actually downgrading & fooling me?


Limiting removes peaks. If you have sharp peaks that have a lot of your
high end, and you chop them off, the end result is less top end and a recording
that sounds bass-heavy.

Limiting is always going to alter the overall tone of a recording, and that
is part of what makes it such a powerful tool. But how it does it will
depend on the source material.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Jay - atldigi
 
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Default L2 bass responce

In article ,
(xy) wrote:

Jay, could you expand on this?

I've often wondered why the L1 can make things sound annoying so
often. I do often mess with it, but I'm only expecting a 30% chance
that it's the right tool. Usually it gets s--- canned.

specifically, how does it "square off the waveform" and how does it
add harmonics?


Basically it's just clipping distortion. With people's desire for super
hot appearant levels, clipping is the only way to get there most times.
Even if you use a good limiter with the hope of minimizing distortion
while maximizing gain, at the levels in question, clipping distortion is
unaviodable.

If you have something like spectrafoo or an old fashioned oscilliscope
and spectrum analyzer, you can watch it happen. Take a sine wave and
increase the level of it until you run out of headroom (or reach digital
full scale). As you increase the level even more, you'll notice that the
waveform starts to square off at the top where the system is incapable
of greater level. You'll notice that as this happens additional things
start to show up on the spectrum analyzer apart from the clean line of
your simple sine wave. The more you push it, the more harmonics show up
and increase in level. A pure sine wave has no harmonics. A typical
musical sound has a fundamental plus certain harmonics at varying levels
changing over time that impart it's unique and recognizable sound. A
square wave theoretically is comprised of an infinite number of odd
harmonics. As you gradually turn your clean sine wave into a more
squarelike shape by clipping it, the more of these odd harmonics will be
contained in your sound. In the same way, as you clip your music, you
are adding additional odd harmonics, and you'll hear this additional
harmonic content as a brightening, then harhness, and eventually the
crackly, fuzzy distortion we are all familiar with.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com
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Jay - atldigi
 
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Default L2 bass responce

In article ,
(Jay Kadis) wrote:

Hank:
It is due to the change of balance that occurs when one
alters dynamic range. And this is why you really should have that box
working while you are mixing so that you can hear what those changes
are in real time.


Jay F:
That's dangerous advice. This makes more sense for compressors as they
change balances even more, but I wouldn't advise people to strap an L2
or similar on while mixing. Actually, I'd definitely advise against it.


Jay K:

Want to explain a bit?


There's a bit of discussion over on prosoundweb about this at:
http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewto...t=7992&start=0

With the epidemic of supercrushed and distorted music afoot, I'm
hesitant to suggest people start playing with L2s while mixing. If it
were just for stray peaks here and there, it wouldn't be so bad, but you
know it's going to turn into full on level (and distortion) wars after
not too long. You don't need a limiter in most mixing situations these
days as there is plenty of dynamic range and low enough noise so that
one doesn't need to push the levels so far. A compressor can be an
integral part of the sound of a mix, it's creative texture, and it's
internal balances. A limiter is either used for safety or for level. A
good limiter used wisely won't impact balances as much as compression,
though when used severely (as in many cases today unfortunately), of
course the loudest things are going to be tucked in. A good mastering
engineer will still be able to balance competing concerns and limit with
the least possible impact to the mix balances.

With modern equipment, the safety issue is not as big a deal as it once
was. I'd rather see people mix at reasonable levels with good gain
staging as there's no reason to push it right to the edge and requiring
a limiter for safety. If you must have the hot levels, leave it to
mastering or do it yourself post processing if you aren't sending it to
mastering. Don't tie your own or your mastering engineer's hands by
having a crushed mix and only a crushed mix. It's far more difficult to
correct any problems, and I can actually get more level cleaner in the
end if I'm sent something with a little breathing room to begin with.
You shouldn't be thinking of apparent loudness as your primary concern
while mixing. There are too many other important things. Leave the level
'til later, or better yet, relax on the level wars and keep your music
sounding better!

I think, even with concerns about how limiting can change a mix, you
have more flexibility and can get better results in the end without the
limiter on the 2 bus during mixing.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com
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david
 
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Default L2 bass responce

In article , Mike
Caffrey wrote:

In article ,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

Mike Caffrey wrote:

Be careful in your chioce of normal, moderate or ultra. Ultra will leave
it a little scooped in the mids and may make the lows louder.


Mike,

Are you talking about the dither settings?

No. Those options are Type I or Type II. I'm talking abut the option
where you select normal, moderate or ultra. Those make EQ changes. maybe
they even are EQ settings. I try to avoid both the L1 and the L2.



www.monsterisland.com




Normal, moderate & ultra refer to types of noise shaping used. For
anyone interested in more info, check he

http://www.waves.com/htmls/prods/har...er.htm#digital


I almost always use the ultra setting, and my mids don't get "a little
scooped." And if my lows are louder it's only because I have used the
L2 as a digital limiter (the hardware box is also a great A/D) which
will bring up all the softer signals. It's what a limiter is supposed
to do, unless the bass is the thing smacking the threshold.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com
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