Hey Ethan-
I have a question concerning monitor placement. I'm gonna start
off by saying that I do not have the best room for monitoring—but it's
what I have to live with. Its perfectly rectangular with a 12' length,
8' width and 7' height. It's really crunched in so there really is no
room for diffusion panels. I do mostly mixing in this room, any
acoustic recording is done in my living rom which has the piano, a
nice hardwood and has no parallel walls.

Anyway, to the point. The mixing desk (with computer, mixer,
control surface, and racks) is on one of the 8'x7' walls and stretches
the entire 8'. This is where my monitors need to be placed, so I have
the entire 8' to experiment with width between them. Anyway, with
every pair of speakers I've tried, monitors or hifi, the sound has
always been piercing and out of phase. I assume the piercing part
comes from lack of mid-high freq absorbtion panels, but I need to
figure out how to correct the phase problem. I've made sure that the
speakers were equally spaced from all walls and from the center (I
know it's a little unnecessary, but I checked both). My question to
you is, what do you recommend I treat the room with? Is my situation
pretty hopeless? I'm about to buy a pair of Behringer Truth actives so
how will that factor in? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.


Thanks, Matt

On 15 Aug 2004 12:30:20 -0700, (Matt)
wrote:

The mixing desk (with computer, mixer,
control surface, and racks) is on one of the 8'x7' walls and stretches
the entire 8'. This is where my monitors need to be placed, so I have
the entire 8' to experiment with width between them.

Try, just try, forgetting where the monitors HAVE to go. Try them out
in the room, away from the wall - improvise stands if necessary. What
happens to the sound?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Matt,

12' length, 8' width and 7' height. It's really crunched in so there
really is no room for diffusion panels.

Right - diffusion is the last thing you need to worry about in a room that
size.

with every pair of speakers I've tried, monitors or hifi, the sound has
always been piercing and out of phase.

If by "out of phase" you mean imaging is poor and it's difficult to discern
where instruments are panned in the stereo field, the problem is most likely
first reflections. (Assuming your gear is in fact wired correctly.) The
solution is to put absorption at the first reflection points on the side
walls and ceiling.

I assume the piercing part comes from lack of mid-high freq absorbtion
panels

Could be. If you clap your hands loudly, do you hear a "ping" or "boing"
sound?

what do you recommend I treat the room with? Is my situation pretty
hopeless?

It's never hopeless.

As for what treatment I recommend, understand this is my business so of
course I'll suggest my company's products: www.realtraps.com

Even if you're not looking to spend a lot of money on treatment, there's a
lot of solid acoustic information on the Articles page of our site.

--Ethan

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message ...
Matt,


Right - diffusion is the last thing you need to worry about in a room that
size.



If by "out of phase" you mean imaging is poor and it's difficult to discern
where instruments are panned in the stereo field,

Yes

the problem is most likely
first reflections. (Assuming your gear is in fact wired correctly.) The
solution is to put absorption at the first reflection points on the side
walls and ceiling.

I did the mirror trick, I cant remember if i learned that from your
site or not (sit in the listening position while someone moves a
mirror along every wall at eye-level, and marks anywhere you can see
the monitors in the mirror, then its repeated for anywhere you can see
the marks from the first round. Absorbtion is put on all marks and the
area above the mixing position on the ceiling or hung. I have yet to
put up the treatment, though).

I can do that for the walls. The problem is that the ceiling is
plaster acoustic tile that is resting on rails along the walls and
suspended by wire in the center areas, so 1) might have problems
attaching any kind of treatment, and 2) it might be too heavy unless
it's the lightest of foam.




Could be. If you clap your hands loudly, do you hear a "ping" or "boing"
sound?

Quite audibly, yes.



It's never hopeless.

That's good to know.


As for what treatment I recommend, understand this is my business so of
course I'll suggest my company's products: www.realtraps.com

Well looking at those prices, "it's never hopeless" may not apply. I'm
not an operating (nearly) as a commercial studio, so the auralex stuff
may have to do, as nice as the traps sound.


Even if you're not looking to spend a lot of money on treatment, there's a
lot of solid acoustic information on the Articles page of our site.


Thanks a lot man, I'm sure you get more than a handfull of these.
--Ethan

--MAtt

Matt,

I did the mirror trick ... I have yet to put up the treatment, though

Then what are you waiting for? :-)

the ceiling is ... suspended by wire ... it might be too heavy unless it's
the lightest of foam.

I don't usually recommend foam, but for that one location - and for the sole
purpose of trapping first reflections - 2-inch thick foam will be adequate.
But even better is ...

looking at those prices, "it's never hopeless" may not apply.

Of course, it all depends on your budget and how good results you want. If
all you have is a few hundred bucks, or less, your best bet is to build
panels from rigid fiberglass. That works better than foam, and costs a lot
less, but is more effort because you have to wrap the panels with fabric.
See the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my Articles page:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in
:

Of course, it all depends on your budget and how good results you
want. If all you have is a few hundred bucks, or less, your best bet
is to build panels from rigid fiberglass. That works better than foam,
and costs a lot less, but is more effort because you have to wrap the
panels with fabric. See the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my
Articles page:

Ethan,

Is it practical or even acoustically useful to replace acoustical ceiling
tiles (which the OT has) with rigid fiberglass?

Carey,

Is it practical or even acoustically useful to replace acoustical ceiling
tiles (which the OT has) with rigid fiberglass?

Sure, if the tiles in place now are the cheap pulp-based type. Some of the
better tiles are based on rigid fiberglass, though most are too thin to do
anything at lower frequencies. You used to be able to buy faced rigid
fiberglass ceiling tiles up to three inches thick. But the last time I
checked I found nothing more than one inch thick. You can also lay 12-inch
thick batts of fluffy fiberglass on top of thin tiles, and that gives good
results too.

--Ethan