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#1
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New Behringer digital mixer
It's called the X32.
32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console Total recall 32 channels with inserts 16 mix busses with inserts 6 aux sends and returns 8 stereo FX returns 6 matrix mixers with inserts 6 mute groups 8 DCA groups Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards* 48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports* Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps 25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders Super-easy user-interface with direct access No confusing menus High-resolution 7" colour TFT display Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots Powerful scene management for shows On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation Super-compact and lightweight $2999.99 USD |
#2
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
... It's called the X32. 32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console Total recall 32 channels with inserts 16 mix busses with inserts 6 aux sends and returns 8 stereo FX returns 6 matrix mixers with inserts 6 mute groups 8 DCA groups Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards* 48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports* Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps 25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders Super-easy user-interface with direct access No confusing menus High-resolution 7" colour TFT display Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots Powerful scene management for shows On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation Super-compact and lightweight $2999.99 USD Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link? Sean |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
m... It's called the X32. 32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console Total recall 32 channels with inserts 16 mix busses with inserts 6 aux sends and returns 8 stereo FX returns 6 matrix mixers with inserts 6 mute groups 8 DCA groups Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards* 48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports* Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps 25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders Super-easy user-interface with direct access No confusing menus High-resolution 7" colour TFT display Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots Powerful scene management for shows On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation Super-compact and lightweight $2999.99 USD Bu I would guess, unserviceable if its like a lot of their other kit. It goes wrong, and you have to throw it away. Regards Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk "Live Long And Prosper \V/" |
#4
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:
It's called the X32. So, will it replace your Yamahas? -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:
Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link? You need to know the secret URL: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks. Not much more info than what Arny posted. Interesting part is that it's not yet approved for sale in the US and Canada pending FCC certification. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#6
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote: It's called the X32. So, will it replace your Yamahas? With only 32 channels? Nahhh! Besides, why replace what's working so well? If I needed a mixer for the chapel or youth room... |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote: Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link? You need to know the secret URL: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks. Not much more info than what Arny posted. Interesting part is that it's not yet approved for sale in the US and Canada pending FCC certification. The "P16 Personal Mixer" has even less doc at this time. I wonder if it will force Aviom to rethink their price structure. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote: Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link? You need to know the secret URL: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks. Not much more info than what Arny posted. Interesting part is that it's not yet approved for sale in the US and Canada pending FCC certification. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have touched one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability to set global parameters that are now part of this version , glad I sold off my ls9 while it still appeared to have value, theprice of digital domain mixing is now taking it's quantum step lower I like the interface on this but am also working up a full SAC rig at this time George |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote: It's called the X32. So, will it replace your Yamahas? Yes I sold my ls9 when I first got to alpha test and consult on this mixer there is going to be a awful lot of over priced digital product out there shortly |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 1/1/2011 6:50 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have touched one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability to set global parameters that are now part of this version How do you get to do that? I've wished that I had been asked to have some input on stuff that I see, stuff that just has a few really stoopid things that would be easy to correct if only someone who had actually worked with such a product had taken a closer look at it. They know who I am, but I guess they're afraid to ask me for an opinion. g Of course i'd like to get paid for it, too. It goes way way back, when everyone was talking crap and repeating the urban legends that all behringer did was copy other peoples stuff I actually took the time to sort the truth from the rumors. I have never claimed behringer was going to replace XTA or BSS in the market but I also did not join the "lets bash them without out understanding world business practices" either I am a strong supported of choosing the tools that fit the job, and more often than not this is a unit that will turn you a profit within its designed life. Behringer dos that as least as well as anyone. and I support them for that reason, they make me TONS of money and allow me to satisfy my clients. This is the same reason I support Meyer Sound Labs My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a low cut filter is switched in or not. most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital) I was a early adopter of digital mixing and still can not find a single down side to it it is just a skill set I need to have ready as a live sound company owner, I do meet lots of engineers who are challenged by learning how to actually mix and they put up mental blocks about learning a new skill that is a career ending decision IMO George -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
wrote in message ... On 2011-01-02 said: My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a low cut filter is switched in or not. most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital) INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator motors built into metering as I've described here in the past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and gave yourself some head room. Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with *every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the other is mixing the live feed, etc. and how is that diffrent with a digital desk? you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any outputs George Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message rlakestechnologygroup... wrote in message ... On 2011-01-02 said: My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a low cut filter is switched in or not. most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital) INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator motors built into metering as I've described here in the past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and gave yourself some head room. Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with *every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the other is mixing the live feed, etc. and how is that diffrent with a digital desk? you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any outputs George and while I have done that once or twice, most often if that is needed it is well known before hand and you bring seperate desks for the reason. I can not think of one single occasion that I could "soundcheck" a not yet on stage band while a band is playing you just can't make the noise, even with no routing to monitors or house sound George |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... It's called the X32. 32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console Total recall 32 channels with inserts 16 mix busses with inserts 6 aux sends and returns 8 stereo FX returns 6 matrix mixers with inserts 6 mute groups 8 DCA groups Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards* 48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports* Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps 25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders Super-easy user-interface with direct access No confusing menus High-resolution 7" colour TFT display Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots Powerful scene management for shows On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation Super-compact and lightweight $2999.99 USD Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was "officially" annpounced http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...xer-2010-11-29 |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... It's called the X32. snip $2999.99 USD Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was "officially" annpounced http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital- mixer-2010-11-29 Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"philicorda" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... It's called the X32. snip $2999.99 USD Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was "officially" annpounced http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital- mixer-2010-11-29 Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere. Yes, I just wanted people to take a look at the feature list a bit closer |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message rlakestechnologygroup... "philicorda" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... It's called the X32. snip $2999.99 USD Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was "officially" annpounced http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital- mixer-2010-11-29 Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere. Yes, I just wanted people to take a look at the feature list a bit closer The behringer is in a rack mount frame ,last I saw from about a year ago |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 2011-01-02 said: screen(digital) INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator motors built into metering as I've described here in the past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and gave yourself some head room. Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with *every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the other is mixing the live feed, etc. and how is that diffrent with a digital desk? you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any outputs RIght, not thinking whole bands so much, as the talking head while the sporting event is happening but talking head isn't ready to go to air yet grin. I'm just used to the tool, and working with it with multiple bodies simultaneously. GOes back to another thread running ad nauseam this ng lately, ergonomics and workflow have a lot to do with the choices we make grin. The different workflow because of metering would be one mental conversion I don't have to make however, which was my original point grin. One patches one's metering during initial setup, and checks it out occasionally whilst monitoring sources that require constant monitoring. Another reason I like working out of my truck. I can have a couple audible meters, spatial location tells me which one is sounding off, and a couple more vibrators situated about my body to monitor others, but there are still practical limits grin. Three auditory on the meter bridge of the console (good ol' left center and right) two vibrators in pockets. I hope you had gear out making you money on amateur's night but got to stay out of the fray friend. Regards, Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup... "Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 1/1/2011 6:50 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have touched one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability to set global parameters that are now part of this version How do you get to do that? I've wished that I had been asked to have some input on stuff that I see, stuff that just has a few really stoopid things that would be easy to correct if only someone who had actually worked with such a product had taken a closer look at it. They know who I am, but I guess they're afraid to ask me for an opinion. g Of course i'd like to get paid for it, too. It goes way way back, when everyone was talking crap and repeating the urban legends that all behringer did was copy other peoples stuff I actually took the time to sort the truth from the rumors. I have never claimed behringer was going to replace XTA or BSS in the market but I also did not join the "lets bash them without out understanding world business practices" either Behringer has pros and cons. The pro is that it is cheap, but by and large, not very serviceable. I have 2 behringer powered mixers. I have yet to figure out how to dismantle one of them to replace the master volume pot that got bent a bit. Furthermore, to get a replacement pot is about $25 all in all. I now use a Studiomaster powered wedge mixer as its mic input noise is -127db verses the huge -112dbv of the behringer. The noise of the Behringer is very noticeable at pub gigs, let along recording. My gig on this new years eve had a major problem in that a brand new behringer keyboard combo amp just died in the middle of "brick in the wall". The output drivers seem to have gone bad. My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. I was absolute stunned on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong. I have a berihnger guitar foot pedal, the knob snapped off. Furthermore, there is no way to get the foot volume to reduce the sound to off. How can anyone get that wrong. I have had an Ernie Ball foot pedal for 9 years. Works fine. I am a strong supported of choosing the tools that fit the job, and more often than not this is a unit that will turn you a profit within its designed life. Behringer dos that as least as well as anyone. and I support them for that reason, they make me TONS of money and allow me to satisfy my clients. This is the same reason I support Meyer Sound Labs My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a low cut filter is switched in or not. most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital) I was a early adopter of digital mixing and still can not find a single down side to it For live work, ifs its got pots for all the main functions, they are the best thing since sliced bread. The cheaper ones with no independent pots for things are a pain in the arse when used in a pub. Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk "Live Long And Prosper \V/" |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
Kevin, if you want to send the truck I can fill it wwith broken and not
cost effective to service stuff from symetrix,soundcraft,aphex,ashley,yamaha,Dod,and yes even some Meyer afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out how to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it and resale value, I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1 56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago, I would guess 5% is just about scrap value. I doubt whom ever owned ever earned a nickle off of it. when you can recoup the cost of gear on its first or second use, who the hell cares if it lasts for years once it has doubled you expense sell it and you will not have service nightmares and with gear like behring you ought be able to pocket profit within a month of ownership, well within the 1 year NO QUESTIONS exchange program they have set up to handle warrentee repairs slag at them all you want, it is a big open market,I suggest you buy something else something else much more expensive, this will allow guys like me to meet the diminishing budgets that events have and still walk to the bank at the end of the night while other guys sit and wonder why they cant get work like they used to. This audio stuff is a business and until we take the emotion and perdjuice out of our choices and look at ROI and suitability for the job good buying decisions are impossible but if emotion and ego are what drives ones buying decisions then don't fret over selling a desk that cost 100,000$ selling for 4K in perfect condition some get their satisfation with name badges, I get mine with bank deposits george |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll take care of that during setup), but on an analog console, you can tell relative levels simply by looking at the position of the knobs. And many large format live and studio consoles have a real meter bridge with meters on the aux outputs. and how is that diffrent with a digital desk? you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any outputs I don't even know what that means. g -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#22
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll take care of that during setup), but on an analog console, you can tell relative levels simply by looking at the position of the knobs. And many large format live and studio consoles have a real meter bridge with meters on the aux outputs. I do not find knob position a indication of any level being sent small format desks are just that small format desk, be the analog or digital, and one must do a tiny bit more to see on a small format desk what a large format desk has the real estate to display if I really did not want to select a meter screen or press a afl button I would deploy the large format mixer, either digital or analog, so I could have that feature with 20 auxes( and some dual shaft ones at that) on my big analog desk it takes quite a bit of attention to determine by knob position what is what!!!! George |
#23
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 2:16 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. How strange. Maybe it's always been broken. I have a little Behringer tabletop sized mixer, a Xenix 1204FX, I think. I got it for a review and they told me that if I could use it, to keep it, that it wasn't worth the cost of shipping back. I suspect that your brother's mixer works the same way as the one I have. The meters read what you've selected for monitoring (headphones/Control Room outputs) except when you press a SOLO button, in which case they show the channel level. Since normally you'd be monitoring the main mix, when you press that button, the meters are reading the main mix level. What may seem a little kooky is that the meters are ahead of the main L/R output faders, so what you're seeing is the level coming out of the summing bus. This is what you really want to watch to be sure you aren't clipping the bus. You can hear how loud the PA system is, and presumably you've calibrated what comes after the mixer so that when the meters hit the pin with the faders all the way up, you're still below clipping. With the main faders at their "unity gain" position, the meters actually do represent the output level. I'm pretty sure that 0 dB on the meters is +4 dBu, or at least it's a constant. It's true, you don't see the meters go downscale when you fade out the mains, but then if you do that, you want to do it by ear, not by eye. I was absolute stunned on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong. It's just one way of doing it. It's a good way of forcing you to set up the system for maximum headroom rather than having to keep the meters down in the bottom quarter of the scale where they don't tell you anything useful since you have too much gain on the power amplifiers. I have a berihnger guitar foot pedal, the knob snapped off. The phantom power LED on my Behringer mixer failed (there's still phantom power) but it's a surface mounted LED on the main circuit board. I'm not likely to replace it. Stuff breaks. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#24
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message
... Behringer has pros and cons. The pro is that it is cheap, but by and large, not very serviceable. There's lot's of stuff that fits that description. The problem with most of it is that it's not that functional or reliable, much less servicable. The more recent Behringer stuff has been quite reliable for me and I have some in use at every gig. I also know exactly what I'm looking for before I start shopping for something, so I am rarely disappointed with my choices. Sean |
#25
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message ... My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. I was absolute stunned on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong. Funny, all my Behringers do main output metering (including the SL24's and UB24's) My Yamaha EMX5000 OTOH *won't* do any PFL metering! How can anyone get that wrong? Fact is, every mixer I've ever used had some good features, and ones you really wished it had, but didn't. Part of what makes the purchasing process difficult. Trevor. |
#26
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 3:32 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1 56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago, That sounds like a pretty good deal. I just took a look and found a 48 channel one for a little over $4,000. I trust you paid less than that. I would have balked at paying $4K for a console of that age unless I knew it was in really good shape and I had work planned for it. I don't know how much they went for new, I'd guess about $15K but that's based on size and weight, not a knowledge of what they actually cost. Or maybe your example of paying $4K for a console that originally cost $100K refers to this one. I doubt whom ever owned ever earned a nickle off of it. That's not a problem with the console, it's a problem with the owner. when you can recoup the cost of gear on its first or second use, who the hell cares if it lasts for years It's only recently that you've been able to do that, though. I've had my Soundcraft 600 since it ws new, that's about 25 years now. I'm sure I've paid for it a couple of times over, but then I'm a part time user. If it went out every weekend at book rate, it probably would have been paid off in a few months. once it has doubled you expense sell it and you will not have service nightmares and with gear like behring you ought be able to pocket profit within a month of ownership, well within the 1 year NO QUESTIONS exchange program they have set up to handle warrentee repairs Hey, now that's a really good racket. Buy one for $500, use it for six months of convention gigs at $750/day, send it in for a new one, and sell it. But it's hard to have any pride of ownership of your tools when you're working at that level. This audio stuff is a business and until we take the emotion and perdjuice out of our choices and look at ROI and suitability for the job good buying decisions are impossible No question but that's how you have to work. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 1:37 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago How unusual to have analog meters on a digital console. I like it already. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#28
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 4:48 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 1/2/2011 1:37 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago Never mind. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#29
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 1/2/2011 3:32 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1 56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago, That sounds like a pretty good deal. I just took a look and found a 48 channel one for a little over $4,000. I trust you paid less than that. I would have balked at paying $4K for a console of that age unless I knew it was in really good shape and I had work planned for it. I don't know how much they went for new, I'd guess about $15K but that's based on size and weight, not a knowledge of what they actually cost. Mike list on the sx-1 in a config close to mine in size was 96,000.00$ as far as I can reserch it tested out 100% no noise , no problems , NOTHING!1 it came with 3 power supplies as well(it take two just to turn it on) nothing except pfl level on one channel was down 2 dB from the rest it is a "hey look at me" piece of gear, sound greast but is really slow to get around on compared to any digital product, and it requires a truck and at 800 lbs , 8 guys to set it up it really is more a marketing tool than a "go to" mixer I do earn quite a bit off it cross renting it to guys who no longer have big VCA desks but need one, I get 750/day for it it really shines as a 8 mono + 6 stereo in ears monitor mixer |
#30
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New Behringer digital mixer
Hey, now that's a really good racket. Buy one for $500, use it for six months of convention gigs at $750/day, send it in for a new one, and sell it. But it's hard to have any pride of ownership of your tools when you're working at that level. LOL I started with that"pride in ownership" stuff, all crest 8001/2 amps, soundcraft K2 mixer, BSS analog eq, audix om 7 mics it all went to **** long before it paid for it's self Back then I did not understand that all electronics were piles of parts waiting to break I bought higher end MI speakers and ex-pensive processing I have changed my business model to own disposable processing and Meyer loudspeakers This earns me ALOT MORE money as speakers go out of fashion much slower than processing does. and quite frankly I feel I get sound equal or better than most new companies touting some wiz bang line array that they really don't deploy properly and try to make it fit every situation plus I am not trying to serve the 50,000 seat stadium shows, I really do well and focus on the 2500 seat and less theaters and imo line arrays just simply are the wrong product for the work I "mostly" do george |
#31
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New Behringer digital mixer
George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was "officially" annpounced http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...xer-2010-11-29 No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of real mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#32
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New Behringer digital mixer
"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup... afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out how to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it Why would that be? I am professional analogue design engineer, and have been so for 30 years. I am not a mechanical tech, nor am I in the general business of repairing audio equipment for employment. Sure, whilst at university I did have a fair bit of on the side repair work for a music shop, a £20 repair was a good percentage increase on my £45 weekly student grant money, but I no even longer build what I design. Its a "would you expect an architect to lay bricks"? Despite this, I have opened and repaired more bits of kit that probably most in this NG. So, non expertise in opening boxes, stuffed in china, that are not designed for servicing, is hardly a good reason to avoid throwing money away by not trying. If you have some suitable instructions for opening up the PMP1280S I would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this matter. Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk "Live Long And Prosper \V/" |
#33
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
... On 1/2/2011 2:16 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote: My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. How strange. Maybe it's always been broken. That's an interesting possibility. I have a little Behringer tabletop sized mixer, a Xenix 1204FX, I think. I got it for a review and they told me that if I could use it, to keep it, that it wasn't worth the cost of shipping back. I suspect that your brother's mixer works the same way as the one I have. The meters read what you've selected for monitoring (headphones/Control Room outputs) except when you press a SOLO button, in which case they show the channel level. Since normally you'd be monitoring the main mix, when you press that button, the meters are reading the main mix level. Its a Eurodesk SL2442FX-Pro. I will have another check when I get over to see him. Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk |
#34
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message ... "George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message rlakestechnologygroup... afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out how to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it Why would that be? I am professional analogue design engineer, and have been so for 30 years. I am not a mechanical tech, nor am I in the general business of repairing audio equipment for employment. Sure, whilst at university I did have a fair bit of on the side repair work for a music shop, a £20 repair was a good percentage increase on my £45 weekly student grant money, but I no even longer build what I design. Its a "would you expect an architect to lay bricks"? Despite this, I have opened and repaired more bits of kit that probably most in this NG. So, non expertise in opening boxes, stuffed in china, that are not designed for servicing, is hardly a good reason to avoid throwing money away by not trying. If you have some suitable instructions for opening up the PMP1280S I would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this matter. Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk "Live Long And Prosper \V/" If I had one on hand I would look at it , figure it out and tell you otherwise contact Jim Savery is the WORLD customer service manager and will get your question routed to the right department George |
#35
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New Behringer digital mixer
If you have some suitable instructions for opening up the PMP1280S I
would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this matter. Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk "Live Long And Prosper \V/" Kebin you have mail George |
#36
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 4:58 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
Mike list on the sx-1 in a config close to mine in size was 96,000.00$ as far as I can reserch it is a "hey look at me" piece of gear, sound greast but is really slow to get around on compared to any digital product, and it requires a truck and at 800 lbs , 8 guys to set it up it really is more a marketing tool than a "go to" mixer I do earn quite a bit off it cross renting it to guys who no longer have big VCA desks but need one, I get 750/day for it Obviously there's still a call for something like that now and then, and it's good that, as a businessman as well as an engineer, you're able to supply it. I'm not sure that an investor today could buy a new console like that. Considering that your business is to make sure that sound comes out of whatever you supply, it's important to offer a wide range of gear at a wide range of prices. Clearly there's a valid place in your inventory for disposable mixers as well as classic consoles. There's no reason not to play the game that way. But you're not the typical Behringer customer. The typical Behringer customer doesn't have cash flow. He barely scrapes enough money together to buy that one $400 mixer that he hopes to be using until his studio outgrows it, which may be several years. I see lots of people who are still using the Mackie CR1604 that they bought nearly 20 years ago and are concerned that one channel is getting noisy. He will probably opt for buying a new mixer rather than a ten year old one. 10-15 years ago, Behringer, regardless of your take on their "engineering practices," characteristically built their equipment in the cheapest way possible. They pioneered Chinese manufacturing of audio equipment and probably should be given credit for making it work, at least most of the time. It gave them a big cost advantage over the competitors. But today nearly everything is built like that (Yeah, it's a generalization - I know about Manley and Fearn and Hardy etc.) so it's harder for someone to make a choice purely on cost. That being said, I think that the new Behringer digital console, if it gets out the gate soon enough, and sufficiently bug-free, will give the PreSonus StudioLive 24.4.2 a good run for the money and may offer an alternative for people attracted to the Roland system but find it too pricey. The Behringer seems to be looking at the same sort of connectivity that Roland (and, sure, Yamaha, too) has been pushing - integrated digital snake system, integrated multichannel monitor system, and such. Can they get a foothold into that market? Hard to tell. PreSonus seems to be making some headway, but they didn't come into the marketplace with the "cheap stuff that works better than you'd expect, until it breaks" reputation. I wish them luck. Maybe they've beefed up their "pro" marketing. They keep coming up with what see like might be decent studio consoles, but with nobody I know using them I really can't tell if it's a line of business for them or just an experiment that they dabble in because they can. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#37
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New Behringer digital mixer
On 1/2/2011 11:00 PM, Peter Larsen wrote:
No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of real mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned. And furthermore, probably cost more than the new Behringer digital mixer. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#38
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New Behringer digital mixer
Mike I see placement of this console squarely in the local confrence and
trade show typeevents mixing in digital is just too difficult for most weekend bands to put the time into understanding Parametric eq, discreet monitor mixes , a complete arsnel of dynamics. mosy weekend bands are lucky if they understand the trimknob on a analog desk much less the concepts required when one has so many tools available so small shows for regional guys like me will be where I see this desk landing I will be buying 2 or three of them I have long predicted that the snake had to be part of the digital systm to really maximize its attractivness the next step will be auto gain and fft analysis of each input so the uneducated user will be able to "get it running" with out understanding gain structure or eq. at that point most "soundguys" who have not advanced past the "weekend bands guy" will be out of business as the console will be better at their jobs than they are George |
#39
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 1/2/2011 11:00 PM, Peter Larsen wrote: No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of real mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned. And furthermore, probably cost more than the new Behringer digital mixer. Everyone loves the simulated VU on the deq2496 meter selection George |
#40
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New Behringer digital mixer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B without pressing the afl button, You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll take care of that during setup), but on an analog console, you can tell relative levels simply by looking at the position of the knobs. I don't see a lot of difference or if there is a difference any loss between that and how things work on my digital console. The "knobs" may be on a menu that has to be displayed but I usually can select that menu by simply touching the relevant fader. One key to a happy life on a digital console is knowing how to bring up menus, and wherever possible how to bring them up with only one or at worst two touches to controls that are highly relevant to what you want to do. For example, when I'm mixing live I usually bring up the menu that shows PFL, eq settings, and a number of other relevant settings. Then, whatever fader I touch brings up that menu for that channel. Some people seem to hate layers, but to me layers mean that I never have to look at more than 24 faders at a time. I put the most frequently adjusted faders on the first layer, and the rest on the other two. Similarly, I vastly prefer having just one set of eq controls that jump to the selected channel when I touch its fader. Rather than having to thread my way through 448 knobs for aux sends, I only have to look at the virtual knobs for one aux channel at a time. Or, I have the option at looking at all of the virtual knobs for the aux sends for one input channel at a time. In the case where I'm looking at the 56 virtual knobs for one aux channel, I can select which one by touching the fader knob for that channel. And many large format live and studio consoles have a real meter bridge with meters on the aux outputs. My digital console has meters on every input and output. Where there is an option for what they show, they are usually set to PFL. And that is what I get with no pysical meter bridge at all. Why would I want a meter bridge interferring with sight lines to the performers? |
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