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Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 26th 18, 02:51 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Doe[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> John Doe wrote:


>> Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
>> "unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

>
> No. I tried to tell you that in a shortened form.


Why? You know I have a soundcard. There is no point in talking
"balanced this unbalanced that" when you know perfectly well
balanced is not available. Or at least you would if you bothered to
read the posts you reply to.
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  #22  
Old March 26th 18, 03:06 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

John Doe > wrote:
>Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>> John Doe wrote:

>
>>> Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
>>> "unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

>>
>> No. I tried to tell you that in a shortened form.

>
>Why? You know I have a soundcard. There is no point in talking
>"balanced this unbalanced that" when you know perfectly well
>balanced is not available. Or at least you would if you bothered to
>read the posts you reply to.


Because he explained, as did I, why you want to be using the balanced input
even though your output is unbalanced. If you don't want to read the
two references I gave you or the reference he gave you, you could instead
read the FAQ.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #23  
Old March 26th 18, 03:10 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Doe[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> John Doe > wrote:
>>
>> Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
>> "unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

>
> No. However, if you have a _differential input_ that is intended
> for a balanced source, you can use the differential input to break
> the signal ground connection effectively and eliminate the ground
> loop.


That's next.

>>In other words... An ordinary stereo output from a PC soundcard
>>can be balanced by simply using XLR cables?

>
> No, because the output is still not balanced. However, you CAN
> still use the differential input to break the ground connection.
>
> There is a discussion of this stuff on the Rane website, also a
> very good one in the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook.
>
>>I like balanced.

>
> It's nice, in part because you can break grounds with impunity
> then.
>
>>A new power supply arrives today or tomorrow. Will see whether it
>>helps. The idea that increased power draw might cause the problem
>>is logical.

>
> It's likely to reduce some of the noise, but just fix the damn
> ground loop.


I would have immediately fixed the thing (using capacitors on the
input as described by Mike) if it made sense to do that. It makes no
sense to me until I figure out what the problem is and why it is not
commonly discussed on the Internet. There are hundreds of millions
of gamers. They do not fix ground loops with transformers or
capacitors.

Is it something wrong with the JBL LSR305 speakers? Like the inputs
not being compatible enough with the unbalanced output from the
soundcard? Not that I have to know.
  #25  
Old March 26th 18, 04:01 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_]
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Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

On 3/25/2018 9:51 PM, John Doe wrote:
> You know I have a soundcard. There is no point in talking
> "balanced this unbalanced that" when you know perfectly well
> balanced is not available. Or at least you would if you bothered to
> read the posts you reply to.


But you were talking about an "HDMI extractor." Does that have a
balanced output? I don't think so. So making a balanced connection is
off the table for you.

I have been reading all of your posts, but some of them don't make a lot
of sense, and you aren't really providing a lot of information. How
about a video or at least a sound recording of the noise that's
bothering you? We're offering common solutions to common problems, and
you might have a common problem. None of your solutions have worked. Try
something that at least has potential to work. Oh, and I think it was
Scott that mentioned capacitors.

You don't have a loudspeaker problem, you have a system problem. I could
suggest a few more tests but you seem to reject everything I've
suggested so far. I have heard of cases where certain powered speakers
that have a differential ("balanced") have a buzz problem when fed from
certain unbalanced sources. This can be fixed but there isn't a single,
guaranteed solution.

But, you know, we don't really know for sure just what noise we're
chasing. You described it as sounding like an oscillator, and when I
asked you for further details, you didn't provide any, or a recording we
could hear. That could be a clue that it is or isn't a grounding
problem. But I don't have a lot of faith in your weak computer power
supply theory unless you have one of those really high powered gamer (or
Bitcoin miner) graphics cards.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
  #26  
Old March 26th 18, 04:32 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Doe[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> John Doe wrote:


>> You know I have a soundcard. There is no point in talking
>> "balanced this unbalanced that" when you know perfectly well
>> balanced is not available. Or at least you would if you bothered
>> to read the posts you reply to.

>
> But you were talking about an "HDMI extractor." Does that have a
> balanced output? I don't think so. So making a balanced connection
> is off the table for you.
>
> I have been reading all of your posts, but some of them don't make
> a lot of sense,


Your first reply to my original post clearly ignored practically
everything I said. I could go through each instance, but of course
that's not protocol.

> I think it was Scott that mentioned capacitors.


I was trying too hard to give you credit for something.

Capacitors on the input is probably my last attempt at finding help
here. If it works, I might post about it.

Yes, I could post a sound sample. But my description as "an
oscillator" should be accurate enough. I made a tonal voltmeter, I
know what oscillators sound like. And I am sure audiophiles do too.
It is a gritty sound, mostly unpleasant like a kazoo.

It is a high pitch oscillation that varies depending on the display.
I also made another very simple device, a tonal voltmeter with
phototransistor input that varied depending on the object it was
pointed at (for example a TV screen). This sound is sort of like
that, the input is not a phototransistor pointing at the screen but
the pitch does vary depending on the screen.









  #27  
Old March 26th 18, 12:05 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_]
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Posts: 2,159
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

On 3/25/2018 11:32 PM, John Doe wrote:
> It is a gritty sound, mostly unpleasant like a kazoo.
> It is a high pitch oscillation that varies depending on the display.



?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

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  #28  
Old March 26th 18, 02:23 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 16,821
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

In article >,
John Doe > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>I would have immediately fixed the thing (using capacitors on the
>input as described by Mike) if it made sense to do that. It makes no
>sense to me until I figure out what the problem is and why it is not
>commonly discussed on the Internet. There are hundreds of millions
>of gamers. They do not fix ground loops with transformers or
>capacitors.


You are confusing us again. I am the one who suggested the shunt caps.
The shunt caps will reduce RF, they don't do anything about the ground
loop. Disconnecting pin 1 at the XLR connector will break the ground loop.

This IS very commonly discussed on the internet, people are CONSTANTLY
complaining about noise in situations like this. Companies like Edcor
and Lundahl specifically make transformer isolation boxes because so many
people have this problem.

>Is it something wrong with the JBL LSR305 speakers? Like the inputs
>not being compatible enough with the unbalanced output from the
>soundcard? Not that I have to know.


No, there's something wrong with cheap soundcards, but that's how it goes.
You set the grounding up properly and deal with it.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #29  
Old March 26th 18, 02:32 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
david gourley[_2_]
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Posts: 233
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

John Doe > said...news
Balanced and unbalanced aside......

Just curious, do you have another computer where you could briefly swap this
sound system and see if you have the same problem? Or better yet, with
another gamer friend that doesn't have the problem.

Seems like at some point, you should be able to find and elminate half the
system that isn't causing the problem.

If you can't find out what it is, at least find out what it ain't. <g>

david

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  #30  
Old March 26th 18, 03:16 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_]
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Posts: 2,159
Default Digital noise from speakers in flight simulator (X-Plane)

On 3/25/2018 11:32 PM, John Doe wrote:
> Your first reply to my original post clearly ignored practically
> everything I said. I could go through each instance, but of course
> that's not protocol.


Please do. Or perhaps I never saw your original post. I try to be
careful when I answer someone who appears to be very confused about what
might be a common problem.

>> I think it was Scott that mentioned capacitors.

> I was trying too hard to give you credit for something.


Don't give me credit for advice that I didn't give, and that I don't
think will solve the problem, however given your recent confusing
description of the sound, it really sounds like electromagnetic
interference, but to solve that problem, you need to gather more
information.

A cell phone is a good source for EMI. If you have one in your pocket
when you're playing the game, turn it off. And if you have a phone, wave
it around, and lay it along side your speaker cables and whatever other
cables in your setup that you have that you haven't mentioned. See if
the noise your phone generates sounds like the noise that's bothering
your. Perhaps you have one cable that isn't properly shielded.




--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
 




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