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JBL JBL is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the Sansui
and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as a wave
capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to be in
software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 15/05/2017 11:03 a.m., JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about
it, I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should
be applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the
Sansui and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as
a wave capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to
be in software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my
disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL


You are dealing with a miniscule signal to start off with, which needs
to works into a 47K input impedence. Both aspects are problems working
straight into the average computer audio interface

You really do need a proper phono preamp (or that section of a
phono-enabled stereo 'receiver') to boost the signal up to line-input
level with the standard RIAA EQ function in hardware.

You could do it how you are proposing, but it will likely end up
sounding dreadful.

geoff


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JBL JBL is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 05/14/2017 07:47 PM, geoff wrote:
On 15/05/2017 11:03 a.m., JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about
it, I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should
be applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the
Sansui and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as
a wave capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to
be in software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my
disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL


You are dealing with a miniscule signal to start off with, which needs
to works into a 47K input impedence. Both aspects are problems working
straight into the average computer audio interface

You really do need a proper phono preamp (or that section of a
phono-enabled stereo 'receiver') to boost the signal up to line-input
level with the standard RIAA EQ function in hardware.

You could do it how you are proposing, but it will likely end up
sounding dreadful.

geoff



I thought my first attempt sounded pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURf...ature=youtu.be

This was from the turntable into the Zoom, then levels brought up a bit
in software along with a bit of NR. Problem is, I don't have much
except somewhat decent headphones (Sony MDR-V6) to check proper signal.
Maybe I'll just leave the EQ alone.
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PStamler PStamler is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

What Geoff said. S hi-fi store (if there are any left near you) will probably have a cheap receiver that has a phono input; it will provide the three things you need:

1. Correct termination for the cartridge (for a moving-iron cartridge this is typically 47k ohms in parallel with 100pF or so of capacitance)

2. Level boodt of about +40dB at 1kHz

3. RIAA compensation

It *is* possible to record without RIAA compensation -- if you have a preamp that provides 1. and 2.. You'd take the boosted signal out of the preasmp and record that, then apply 20dB of shelving boost at 50Hz in Audition's parametric equalizer, followed by a 1st-order lowpass at 2,122Hz using Audition's scientific filters. I do this rather often, for mildly esoteric reasons. But you absolutely need a flat preamp to properly terminate the cartridge and boost the level. If you're handy at DIY you can build this using a couple of 5532 opamps, some batteries and capacitors and a box, plus some RCA jacks and a binding post. But for most people it's a lot easier to dig up an old receiver.

Peace,
Paul
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

In article , JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the Sansui
and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as a wave
capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to be in
software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my disposal.


Have you not noticed the total lack of low end?

You need both RIAA equalization AND the ability to provide a very specific
loading to the phono cartridge. The easy way of doing this is with a
phono preamp which will give you a line level output that you can run into
your Zoom.

The Hagerman Bugle is a good inexpensive but accurate phono preamp which
I would recommend. It provides a 47k load which is what most moving magnet
cartridges want to see.

After you have done the arm setup and the cartridge alignment, I strongly
suggest playing back a 1kc square wave test record and looking to see how
it looks. You shouldn't see arm ringing or cartridge ringing, you should
not see mistracking on inner grooves, and the top and bottom of the square
should be nice and parallel. My suspicion is that it will take some mechanical
tinkering to get it this way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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geoff geoff is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 15/05/2017 11:57 a.m., JBL wrote:


I thought my first attempt sounded pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURf...ature=youtu.be

This was from the turntable into the Zoom, then levels brought up a
bit in software along with a bit of NR. Problem is, I don't have much
except somewhat decent headphones (Sony MDR-V6) to check proper
signal. Maybe I'll just leave the EQ alone.



You didn't notice a huge lack of bass and exaggerated treble ?!!

If you can't find a new or used one near you, google phono preamp
kitset DIY or some similar to find something basic easy to build .

geoff

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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 5/14/2017 7:03 PM, JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio?


You absolutely need to equalize the cartridge output. I think there are
probably some RIAA curve equalizer plug-ins for a DAW nowadays, and if
you were to use a transformer DI you'd be approximating the proper load
on the cartridge.

Better is to go to a Goodwill (or equivalent) store and buy a stereo
receiver with a Phono input. It'll probably be $25 or less unless
they've gone viral with the vinyl craze. Connect the Tape Output from
the receiver to the external level of your Zoom recorder, set the record
level carefully, and record.



--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 7:03:16 PM UTC-4, JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the Sansui
and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as a wave
capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to be in
software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL


I THINK Audacity audio software offers common equalization curves.

Jack
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 5/14/2017 7:03 PM, JBL wrote:
Sansui and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder


Oh, and here's an H2 hint. Set the input level switch to Low and set the
record level to 100 and see where the record level meters read. You can
turn it up from there, but if the level is too high and you need to turn
it down to keep the meters on scale, you'll have to attenuate the output
from the receiver. If you can't get the level high enough with the
switch on Low, you can move it up to Medium.

The H2 doesn't have any attenuation other than the three position switch
ahead of the A/D converter. So it's possible to turn the record level
down to keep the meters on scale, but if you have to turn it below 100
in the Low position, you'll be clipping the input stage before the
converter. Then you'll be making a nice, clean recording of a clipped
signal. Not good.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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JBL JBL is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 05/14/2017 08:45 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/14/2017 7:03 PM, JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about
it, I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should
be applying RIAA eq to the audio?


You absolutely need to equalize the cartridge output. I think there are
probably some RIAA curve equalizer plug-ins for a DAW nowadays, and if
you were to use a transformer DI you'd be approximating the proper load
on the cartridge.

Better is to go to a Goodwill (or equivalent) store and buy a stereo
receiver with a Phono input. It'll probably be $25 or less unless
they've gone viral with the vinyl craze. Connect the Tape Output from
the receiver to the external level of your Zoom recorder, set the record
level carefully, and record.




I have a Numark DM-1650 "stereo preamp control center". It was a mixer
used by DJ's quite a long time ago, and I've just had it sitting here.
It does have phono inputs and I wonder if that will work?


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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 5/14/2017 8:51 PM, JBL wrote:
I have a Numark DM-1650 "stereo preamp control center". It was a mixer
used by DJ's quite a long time ago, and I've just had it sitting here.
It does have phono inputs and I wonder if that will work?


Of course it will work. That's what it's for. I tried about five web
sites to get a look at the manual and there was something wrong or
suspicious of every one, but, really, that's its purpose - to amplify a
phono cartridge output, equalize it properly, and deliver a line level
signal.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 7:57:49 PM UTC-4, JBL wrote:
On 05/14/2017 07:47 PM, geoff wrote:
On 15/05/2017 11:03 a.m., JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about
it, I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should
be applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the
Sansui and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as
a wave capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to
be in software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my
disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL


You are dealing with a miniscule signal to start off with, which needs
to works into a 47K input impedence. Both aspects are problems working
straight into the average computer audio interface

You really do need a proper phono preamp (or that section of a
phono-enabled stereo 'receiver') to boost the signal up to line-input
level with the standard RIAA EQ function in hardware.

You could do it how you are proposing, but it will likely end up
sounding dreadful.

geoff



I thought my first attempt sounded pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURf...ature=youtu.be

This was from the turntable into the Zoom, then levels brought up a bit
in software along with a bit of NR. Problem is, I don't have much
except somewhat decent headphones (Sony MDR-V6) to check proper signal.
Maybe I'll just leave the EQ alone.


Not bad (for vinyl)! I'd raise volume, want to hear greater definition. Watch that NR, so many people go overboard with it!
Sounds like you're on the right track.

Jack

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JBL JBL is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 05/14/2017 08:59 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/14/2017 8:51 PM, JBL wrote:
I have a Numark DM-1650 "stereo preamp control center". It was a
mixer used by DJ's quite a long time ago, and I've just had it sitting
here. It does have phono inputs and I wonder if that will work?


Of course it will work. That's what it's for. I tried about five web
sites to get a look at the manual and there was something wrong or
suspicious of every one, but, really, that's its purpose - to amplify a
phono cartridge output, equalize it properly, and deliver a line level
signal.


Great! I'll just use that. Sorry I seem so naive... it's been close to
30 years since doing any kind of turntable recording. I've forgotten
just about everything in the digital age.

Thanks to everyone.... and no, I couldn't tell the "video" I posted had
bad EQ. Perhaps I'll repost after doing the feed through the mixer.
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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

If you want to gain appluse on YiOn Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 7:03:16 PM UTC-4, JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the Sansui
and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as a wave
capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to be in
software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my disposal.

Thanks for any suggestions,
JBL


If you're seeking to gain applause on YouTube, target songs that sound like poop on CD, better on Vinyl. One that comes to mind is Rick Derringer's hit, Rock And Roll Hoochie Coo. I guess all Sony has left is a worn Master tape.

I'd even pay for a decent vinyl rip.

Jack


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

In article , JBL wrote:
I thought my first attempt sounded pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURf...ature=youtu.be


There is no low end, and the top end is shrieky. The top end is also
distorted as you can hear the stylus mistracking and tearing gobbets out
of the side of the groove. It is also very noisy, although it's hard to
tell what is really going on with the noise because the frequency balance
is so far off.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 15/05/2017 10:45 AM, geoff wrote:
On 15/05/2017 11:57 a.m., JBL wrote:
I thought my first attempt sounded pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURf...ature=youtu.be

This was from the turntable into the Zoom, then levels brought up a
bit in software along with a bit of NR. Problem is, I don't have much
except somewhat decent headphones (Sony MDR-V6) to check proper
signal. Maybe I'll just leave the EQ alone.


You didn't notice a huge lack of bass and exaggerated treble ?!!

If you can't find a new or used one near you, google phono preamp
kitset DIY or some similar to find something basic easy to build .



There are plenty of cheap ready made phono pre-amps available too. The
Behringer is about $30 for example. Even that will do the job better
than a software solution.

Trevor.


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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On 15/05/2017 10:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about it,
I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should be
applying RIAA eq to the audio? All I have at my disposal is the Sansui
and that is feeding a Zoom H2 digital recorder set at 24/96 as a wave
capture file. Whatever would have to be applied would have to be in
software after the fact. I have Magix and Adobe Audition at my disposal.


Have you not noticed the total lack of low end?

You need both RIAA equalization AND the ability to provide a very specific
loading to the phono cartridge. The easy way of doing this is with a
phono preamp which will give you a line level output that you can run into
your Zoom.

The Hagerman Bugle is a good inexpensive but accurate phono preamp which
I would recommend. It provides a 47k load which is what most moving magnet
cartridges want to see.

After you have done the arm setup and the cartridge alignment, I strongly
suggest playing back a 1kc square wave test record and looking to see how
it looks. You shouldn't see arm ringing or cartridge ringing, you should
not see mistracking on inner grooves, and the top and bottom of the square
should be nice and parallel. My suspicion is that it will take some mechanical
tinkering to get it this way.



Somehow I seriously doubt he has a suitable test record, or is willing
to buy one though!

Trevor.


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PStamler PStamler is offline
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Default add RIAA to recorded turntable?

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 7:51:58 PM UTC-5, JBL wrote:
On 05/14/2017 08:45 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/14/2017 7:03 PM, JBL wrote:
I have a Sansui 525 turntable and I am getting ready to record some
vinyl over to digital for a friend. Although I never thought about
it, I've come across some information suggesting that maybe I should
be applying RIAA eq to the audio?


You absolutely need to equalize the cartridge output. I think there are
probably some RIAA curve equalizer plug-ins for a DAW nowadays, and if
you were to use a transformer DI you'd be approximating the proper load
on the cartridge.

Better is to go to a Goodwill (or equivalent) store and buy a stereo
receiver with a Phono input. It'll probably be $25 or less unless
they've gone viral with the vinyl craze. Connect the Tape Output from
the receiver to the external level of your Zoom recorder, set the record
level carefully, and record.




I have a Numark DM-1650 "stereo preamp control center". It was a mixer
used by DJ's quite a long time ago, and I've just had it sitting here.
It does have phono inputs and I wonder if that will work?


Probably.

Peace,
Paul

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