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[email protected] jcworthington@gmail.com is offline
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Default old tube phonograph questions

On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:17:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:

My parents have one of units that was purchased in the 50's under the name "Kelton". I think that this is the Lang & Taylor Model designation. It came with a schematic and parts list for the A-40 amplifier. The unit came with a Collaro RS-456 record changer with a ceramic cartridge. It sounds amazing, but I'd be afraid to put any of my records on it due to the weight of the tone arm. The 45s seem to sound better than they do on audiophile equipment. Our unit came with an extension speaker that looks the same as the console.


I have my grandparents console. It is called The Kelton by Lang & Taylor.. it is from the 1950's in a Mahogany case. I love the way it looks. It has all the paperwork. It doesn't work and I am taking it to be repaired.. Can you tell me what I am in for? I really hope I can get it to working condition.


I'm presently restoring my parent's unit.

The turntable doesn't spin and the amplifier has hum. The sound is not as good as it was 60 years ago.

To start, I'm replacing all of the paper electrolytic and non-electrolytic paper capacitors in the amplifier and will go from there. I checked the tubes. They're all good, but the 12AX7s are a little low on emission. The power cord is frayed. I'm going to replace this with a 3-wire power cord.

The electrolytic capacitors in the crossover network will probably have to be replaced as well. I'm concerned that Polarized electrolytic capacitors were used in the original design instead of non-polarized capacitors. This is not good design practice. Reverse voltage on an electrolytic capacitor can damage the capacitor.

The motor is frozen on the turntable. Removing the dried out grease and lubricating should fix the problem. The rubber roller may need to be replaced. I'm also looking for a replacement for the original Collaro RC456 changer as another possibility. Modern turntables should provide less wear on the vinyl media.

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Alan Marcy Alan Marcy is offline
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On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 4:43:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:17:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:

My parents have one of units that was purchased in the 50's under the name "Kelton". I think that this is the Lang & Taylor Model designation. It came with a schematic and parts list for the A-40 amplifier. The unit came with a Collaro RS-456 record changer with a ceramic cartridge. It sounds amazing, but I'd be afraid to put any of my records on it due to the weight of the tone arm. The 45s seem to sound better than they do on audiophile equipment. Our unit came with an extension speaker that looks the same as the console.


I have my grandparents console. It is called The Kelton by Lang & Taylor. it is from the 1950's in a Mahogany case. I love the way it looks. It has all the paperwork. It doesn't work and I am taking it to be repaired. Can you tell me what I am in for? I really hope I can get it to working condition.


I'm presently restoring my parent's unit.

The turntable doesn't spin and the amplifier has hum. The sound is not as good as it was 60 years ago.

To start, I'm replacing all of the paper electrolytic and non-electrolytic paper capacitors in the amplifier and will go from there. I checked the tubes. They're all good, but the 12AX7s are a little low on emission. The power cord is frayed. I'm going to replace this with a 3-wire power cord.

The electrolytic capacitors in the crossover network will probably have to be replaced as well. I'm concerned that Polarized electrolytic capacitors were used in the original design instead of non-polarized capacitors. This is not good design practice. Reverse voltage on an electrolytic capacitor can damage the capacitor.

The motor is frozen on the turntable. Removing the dried out grease and lubricating should fix the problem. The rubber roller may need to be replaced. I'm also looking for a replacement for the original Collaro RC456 changer as another possibility. Modern turntables should provide less wear on the vinyl media.



******


Hi RATs!

Yes, new TT, even modestly priced units, are far superior.

Use Polypropylene film in oil caps in crossover. They last forever and are very clear sounding.

If you go crazy they are also very good for the power supply. ($$$)

Happy Ears!

Al


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[email protected] jcworthington@gmail.com is offline
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Default old tube phonograph questions

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 7:58:01 AM UTC-4, Alan Marcy wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 4:43:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:17:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:

My parents have one of units that was purchased in the 50's under the name "Kelton". I think that this is the Lang & Taylor Model designation.. It came with a schematic and parts list for the A-40 amplifier. The unit came with a Collaro RS-456 record changer with a ceramic cartridge. It sounds amazing, but I'd be afraid to put any of my records on it due to the weight of the tone arm. The 45s seem to sound better than they do on audiophile equipment. Our unit came with an extension speaker that looks the same as the console.

I have my grandparents console. It is called The Kelton by Lang & Taylor. it is from the 1950's in a Mahogany case. I love the way it looks. It has all the paperwork. It doesn't work and I am taking it to be repaired. Can you tell me what I am in for? I really hope I can get it to working condition.


I'm presently restoring my parent's unit.

The turntable doesn't spin and the amplifier has hum. The sound is not as good as it was 60 years ago.

To start, I'm replacing all of the paper electrolytic and non-electrolytic paper capacitors in the amplifier and will go from there. I checked the tubes. They're all good, but the 12AX7s are a little low on emission. The power cord is frayed. I'm going to replace this with a 3-wire power cord..

The electrolytic capacitors in the crossover network will probably have to be replaced as well. I'm concerned that Polarized electrolytic capacitors were used in the original design instead of non-polarized capacitors. This is not good design practice. Reverse voltage on an electrolytic capacitor can damage the capacitor.

The motor is frozen on the turntable. Removing the dried out grease and lubricating should fix the problem. The rubber roller may need to be replaced. I'm also looking for a replacement for the original Collaro RC456 changer as another possibility. Modern turntables should provide less wear on the vinyl media.



******


Hi RATs!

Yes, new TT, even modestly priced units, are far superior.

Use Polypropylene film in oil caps in crossover. They last forever and are very clear sounding.

If you go crazy they are also very good for the power supply. ($$$)

Happy Ears!

Al


The values are too large for polypropylene:
150uf @ 50V
250uF @ 50V

I found some non-polarized electrolytic capacitors specifically for crossovers at Parts Express.
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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 5:43:10 PM UTC-4, Jim Worthington wrote:

Please note the interpolations.

To start, I'm replacing all of the paper electrolytic and non-electrolytic paper capacitors in the amplifier and will go from there. I checked the tubes. They're all good, but the 12AX7s are a little low on emission. The power cord is frayed. I'm going to replace this with a 3-wire power cord.


Before you do this, make sure that the chassis is actually fully isolated - no fault in the transformer and that this is not a transformerless design. Unlikely, but with this sort of thing, adding a 3-wire cord can sometimes have untoward results. If there are line-bypass caps in place, be even more careful, and replace them with properly rated (X or Y) type caps. And check for hum loops after installation. Unlikely, but worth attention.

The electrolytic capacitors in the crossover network will probably have to be replaced as well. I'm concerned that Polarized electrolytic capacitors were used in the original design instead of non-polarized capacitors. This is not good design practice. Reverse voltage on an electrolytic capacitor can damage the capacitor.


The original design likely upped the voltage to avoid the need/cost of NP caps, which were relatively more expensive back in the day. Certainly more costly than going up on voltage. In any case, shifting to NP caps can only make it more stable and will do no harm.

The motor is frozen on the turntable. Removing the dried out grease and lubricating should fix the problem. The rubber roller may need to be replaced. I'm also looking for a replacement for the original Collaro RC456 changer as another possibility. Modern turntables should provide less wear on the vinyl media.


You can "restore" an existing dried out roller by lightly machining a groove into the existing hard roller - if it still has its integrity, that is - and then use a neoprene or silicon O-ring of the appropriate size secured with super-glue. It is only an idler, after all. I find that synthetic greases are very good for lubrication where no slop is required:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00257006

You will likely have to replace the cartridge and stylus - there are many sources for such

Good luck with it!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

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Big Bad Bob Big Bad Bob is offline
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On 10/19/16 14:43, so wittily quipped:
The electrolytic capacitors in the crossover network will probably have to be replaced as well. I'm concerned that Polarized electrolytic capacitors were used in the original design instead of non-polarized capacitors. This is not good design practice. Reverse voltage on an electrolytic capacitor can damage the capacitor.


you might consider replacing them with ceramics. modern (layered)
ceramic capacitors can exceed several microfarads at a considerable
voltage, and might even cost less. They won't have ESR issues, nor have
to be at 'working voltage' to get the rated capacitance.

I assume speaker crossover capacitors, right? Yeah, they SHOULD be
non-polar. Ideally they should be non-electrolytic.

The motor is frozen on the turntable. Removing the dried out grease and lubricating should fix the problem. The rubber roller may need to be replaced. I'm also looking for a replacement for the original Collaro RC456 changer as another possibility.


That's assuming there's no rust...

Modern turntables should provide less wear on the vinyl media.


Especially if it uses a ceramic cartridge...

if you can manage to balance the tone arm and/or put a more modern
(dynamic) cartridge in it [keeping the old-style look, of course], that
might be pretty cool. some Pb solder taped/glued into place, maybe? Or
a few spots of hot glue [it's kinda heavy]




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Big Bad Bob Big Bad Bob is offline
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Default old tube phonograph questions

On 10/20/16 07:11, Peter Wieck so wittily quipped:
To start, I'm replacing all of the paper electrolytic and non-electrolytic paper capacitors in the amplifier and will go from there. I checked the tubes. They're all good, but the 12AX7s are a little low on emission. The power cord is frayed. I'm going to replace this with a 3-wire power cord.


Before you do this, make sure that the chassis is actually fully isolated - no fault in the transformer and that this is not a transformerless design. Unlikely, but with this sort of thing, adding a 3-wire cord can sometimes have untoward results. If there are line-bypass caps in place, be even more careful, and replace them with properly rated (X or Y) type caps.


I've seen those 'partially short', before. zapped myself on the
chassis. I took them out of the circuit on one unit [long time ago], a
resistor and a capacitor. It worked fine without them.

And check for hum loops after installation. Unlikely, but worth attention.


Hum loops caused by *ahem* those same RC components on the AC line
coming in, effectively putting a signal onto the chassis.

(I have several ground loop isolators on the 3 computers and other stuff
plugged into a mixer board on my desk, for the audio, as those computer
switchers notoriously put an audible signal on the ground, if you have
more than one of them in the same circuit).


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