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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River
MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will
stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible.

This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone
here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a
wonderful thingWith this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by
recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second
when budget permits?

Thank you all for you advice so far. The group has been extremely
helpful.

Gerry Nelson

ps. Apart from its ability to use 12V and 48V, is there any reason to
go for the CMC6 amplifier instead?

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Predrag Trpkov
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River
MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will
stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible.

This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone
here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a
wonderful thing.



Sure, although, given the radiation pattern of acoustic guitar, a less
directional microphone makes it easier to capture the full sound of the
instrument. It requires a good sounding room, though.

The microphone placement is absolutely critical with a hypercardioid like
the MK41. In turn, it picks less room ambience, which is a good thing in
less than perfect rooms. Fiddling with the microphone placement is much
easier and cheaper than fixing the room acoustics.


With this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by
recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second
when budget permits?



It's not exactly a win-or-lose situation. You can easily get a great
sounding recording with a single Schoeps. Instead of that, you could ask how
much is there to be gained by introducing a second microphone. That,
however, is difficult to predict without knowing more about the context.
Obviously, it's much more likely to make a difference in case of a
minimalist, solo acoustic guitar recording than within a dense pop/rock
arrangement, where it could even turn out to be completely redundant.

Predrag


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David Satz
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Gerry, a lot of wonderful records were made in mono back in the day.
Good mono is certainly more listenable than bad stereo. But mono and
stereo pickup produces very different results, and I think that you
should experience the effect first-hand even if that means borrowing or
renting a pair of someone else's microphones to try it.

I happen to use the combination of CMC 5 and MK 41 a lot ("CMC 541"),
though I also use MK 8 capsules and increasingly these days, MK 21.

As far as the CMC 5 versus the CMC 6 is concerned, apart from the more
flexible phantom powering arrangement and the ca. $20 difference in
price to go with it, there are two differences. They may not concern
you very much, but I'll spell them out and you can decide.

The first difference would mainly concern people who record pipe organs
and full orchestras with omnidirectional microphones, since Schoeps
omnis have flat response down to the lowest audio frequencies and
beyond. All Schoeps microphone amplifiers have a protective rolloff at
the bottom end of the audio spectrum, but it's done a little
differently in the two models: In the CMC 5 this begins at 30 Hz and
has a mild slope (6 dB/octave), while in the CMC 6 the response stays
flat to a lower frequency (20 Hz) and then rolls off somewhat more
sharply (12 dB/octave).

The second difference would concern anyone who works in a heavy RF
environment: The CMC 6 is damn near immune even to very strong RF
interference. The CMC 5 is certainly no slouch in this department--I
record in many locations in and around New York City, and since I moved
here in 1981 I've only had one detectable RFI problem that I can recall
with the CMC 5. (Oddly, it was a session in the suburbs--not in town.)

But the shielding and grounding of the CMC 6 were re-engineered a
couple of years ago such that, to my knowledge, there have simply been
no reported cases at all with the newer version. Again, in most usual
studio applications this probably isn't a concern, but looking toward
the future, the general tendency is for more and more people to use
more and more of the radio frequency spectrum in more and more places.
If I were "starting from scratch" today I would choose the CMC 6,
though I'm not looking to let go of my trusty CMC 5 amplifiers in any
hurry.

I hope that this wasn't too much information ...

--best regards

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David Satz
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Dave, the change occurred a couple of years ago, but for various
reasons the serial number isn't a completely reliable indicator, e.g.
some older CMC 6 amplifiers were "retrofitted" but their serial numbers
remained the same.

Newer-type CMC 6 amplifiers can be identified from the outside if you
look closely at the XLR connector. The newer type has a shiny,
circular, gold-colored metal plate visible at the back of the connector
(i.e. at the base of the pins); the older type doesn't, nor do any CMC
3, 4, or 5 amplifiers. I hope this helps.

--best regards



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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Ty,

I remember reading you'd made a recording of your Martin with the
Schoeps but I couldn't find it on your website. Is it still there?

Kind Regards,
Gerry

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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic
guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a
single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s?

Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES!

I hope to answer that question for myself sometime soon by borrowing
the mics in question and recording with them.

Gerry

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Predrag Trpkov
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?


wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic
guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a
single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s?

Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES!



I can't imagine owning a pair of KM184s as being a mistake, but as one of
the latest converts to Schoeps, owning a single CMC4/MK41 and having tried
it extensively on acoustic guitar, I must say that there's something
irresistible in the sound of that mike. Highly addictive.

Predrag


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Uncle Russ
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

After Ty got his Schoeps, I jealously suffered through a year or two of his
posts praising its qualities and urging everyone to get one. I had recorded
on Schoeps years ago and understood his enthusiasm. I finally scraped up the
cash and bought a matched pair of CMC64s. Best money I ever spent on a
microphones. They are accurate yet flattering. They make virtually
EVERYTHING sound good. It is only with the greatest effort that I have kept
myself from echoing Ty.

So, to answer the question specifically, while my KM184s are quite good,
they pale by comparison to the Schoeps. Actually, to my taste, almost
everything does.

"Uncle Russ" Reinberg

WESTLAKE RECORDS
www.westlakerecords.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic
guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a
single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s?

Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES!

I hope to answer that question for myself sometime soon by borrowing
the mics in question and recording with them.

Gerry





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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Well the rig is 2 channel so it could be one output of the A-T behind
the Schoeps. It sounds like an interesting experiment!

Gerry

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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Ah yes, but what about a single CMC5/MK41 vs a pair of KM184s?

Anyway, I hope to experience the magic for myself by borrowing one
sometime soon and then things might be a little clearer.

Gerry Nelson

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hank alrich
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

Albert wrote:

gesunelson wrote:
I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River
MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will
stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible.

This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone
here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a
wonderful thingWith this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by
recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second
when budget permits?


Are you considering recording with both the single Schoeps and the
stereo A-T mic? I'd be tempted to try it - maybe find a sweet spot for
the Schoeps a foot or 2 back, and the stereo mic behind it for
stereophony/ambience mixed in to taste. Will your rig permit this
otherwise in terms of preamps/converters?


The MK41 cap is hypercard. I'd start with it back from the instrument
about the length of the instrument itself to let it hear the whole
thing.

--
ha
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hank alrich
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

gesunelson wrote:

Ah yes, but what about a single CMC5/MK41 vs a pair of KM184s?


I'd go with the Schoeps in your case, because you can later get another
that will precisely match the one you'd have. Right now all yoiu need is
that one glorious mic to track your guitar.

--
ha
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?

I love this group!

Gerry

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Lorin David Schultz
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY

Ty Ford wrote:

In my OnLine Archive, Inside the AUDIO folder is a 10.5 MB mono,
16-bit, 44.1 wav of my D28S and the Schoeps cmc641.



There's a file there, but it's not 10.5MB. It's zero bytes. Either
something went wrong during the upload or there's some kind of link
issue on the .mac page.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)


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Ty Ford
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:07:08 -0500, Lorin David Schultz wrote
(in article MXDTf.4130$J43.3407@edtnps90):

Ty Ford wrote:

In my OnLine Archive, Inside the AUDIO folder is a 10.5 MB mono,
16-bit, 44.1 wav of my D28S and the Schoeps cmc641.



There's a file there, but it's not 10.5MB. It's zero bytes. Either
something went wrong during the upload or there's some kind of link
issue on the .mac page.



Hmm, yes, weird. It's showing on one computer correctly, but the laptop says
0. Lemme try that again.

Ty

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY

You're right, Ty, it doesn't need eq'ing. That is just lovely! Thanks
for putting the clip up. I'll be listening to it a few times!


Kind Regards,
Gerry

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Lorin David Schultz
 
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Default Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY

Ty Ford wrote:

Hmm, yes, weird. It's showing on one computer correctly, but the
laptop says 0. Lemme try that again.




Whatever you did, it worked. Thanks!

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)


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