I know kicker makes 1 of the best speakers under $100. i'm thinking of
trying one.but will it sound as good as my 4yr old cerwin vega
6x9s,3way?

troll you should already know the answer, we're all stupid remember?


"bob wald" wrote in message
...
I know kicker makes 1 of the best speakers under $100. i'm thinking of
trying one.but will it sound as good as my 4yr old cerwin vega
6x9s,3way?

"bob wald" wrote in message
...
I know kicker makes 1 of the best speakers under $100. i'm thinking of
trying one.but will it sound as good as my 4yr old cerwin vega
6x9s,3way?

Why don't you stick to your best speakers under $30?

It really doesn't matter... unless you have a vehicle with door or dash
mounted 6x9's, they are just a waste of money. You would be better off
spending the money to improve the sound of your front stage rather than
the sound coming from behind you.


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jethro...my front speakers are already a+....
also i dont believe the bs about yur rear speakers are a waste.it all
blends to make the overall sound of your car.
Since you usually put 35% more power to the rear speakers...
ALSO TO those of YOU..how could I know about HOW KICKER sounds if I
never heard ONE.SO I DONT know everything.

also kicker ks69s are going for $75.usually $119.....

"jethro...my front speakers are already a+....
also i dont believe the bs about yur rear speakers are a waste.it all
blends to make the overall sound of your car.
Since you usually put 35% more power to the rear speakers...
ALSO TO those of YOU..how could I know about HOW KICKER sounds if I
never heard ONE.SO I DONT know everything."

Why on earth would you put more power to your rear speakers than to you
put to your front? The goal is not to make a front/rear blended
sound... it is to create a realistic FRONT stage. When you go to a
concert, you sit with the musicians in FRONT of you, so the goal in a
car should be to have sound coming from in FRONT of you as well.

Having multiple speakers producing the same frequencies from different
locations inside a car will only degrade the sound. A nice set of
components (or a really nice set of coaxials) in the front doors or
kick panels is usually the best option, but you can also get some
success mounting midbasses in the doors and tweeters in the dash (if
you do it right). I personally prefer no rear fill at all... and many
other in the car audio world feel the same way (many award winning SQ
vehicles).

Go find a local Kicker dealer and listen to the KS69's in person...
that is really the best way to know if they sound good or not.


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old school SQ guy
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Why on earth would you put more power to your rear speakers than to you
put to your front? The goal is not to make a front/rear blended
sound... it is to create a realistic FRONT stage.

Who says?

different speakers even with the same frez will not sound alike..like
6x9s to 5 1/4s..so on.....
and different brands......
i've decided i must lower my advice.you dont even know the simplest
things.by this one here..lol is this guy 1 of your lil gangs
smartest?????

MZ Wrote:
Why on earth would you put more power to your rear speakers than to
you
put to your front? The goal is not to make a front/rear blended
sound... it is to create a realistic FRONT stage.

Who says?

Logic. It just makes sense...

That should be the goal of any respectable sound system. Even a stock
sound system should be faded forward so that a majority of the sound is
coming from the front speakers. If you want more bass, buy a sub... but
don't throw an amp on full-range rear speakers.


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Jethro wrote:
Logic. It just makes sense...

That should be the goal of any respectable sound system. Even a stock
sound system should be faded forward so that a majority of the sound is
coming from the front speakers. If you want more bass, buy a sub... but
don't throw an amp on full-range rear speakers.

Or he could listen to his ears and his own likes and dislikes and make
it sound good to him. Everyone has different preferences when it comes
to sound. I myself prefer to make it seem like I'm being bombarded from
all sides. Some people like front only and hate any concept or rear
sound. Others like it just from the rear (kinky *******s). The whole
Front-stage and proper imaging thing is over-rated in my humble opinion.
I could care less if it sounds like a live band and it sounds like the
guitar is coming from 3 feet to the left of center stage or whatever. I
like what sounds good to me, and more power to you on yours.

Brandonb

oh i see now...you fade forward.....now i see why you dont hear your
rear deck...so you think you dont need them.....
listen..you are going to hear your fronts first anyways..if you fade to
them.then why have rears? youre cutting your rears out....
listen 6x9s are awsome.....solid mid bass/bass and more power
handling.....
now i have jvc/c.v/pioneer 6x9s but i was thinking of trying higher
end.not saying those c.v aint high end but they over 5yrs old....

"different speakers even with the same frez will not sound alike..like
6x9s to 5 1/4s..so on.....
and different brands......
i've decided i must lower my advice.you dont even know the simplest
things.by this one here..lol is this guy 1 of your lil gangs
smartest?????"

Bob, f you would speak English maybe I could tell what the heck you
just said there. I would offer a rebuttal to your comment, but it
really does not make ANY sense.

And I don't belong to any "little gang"... I am posting this through
www.caraudioforum.com ...maybe you should stop by and get a little
education.


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Brandonb Wrote:
Jethro wrote:
Logic. It just makes sense...

That should be the goal of any respectable sound system. Even a
stock
sound system should be faded forward so that a majority of the sound
is
coming from the front speakers. If you want more bass, buy a sub...
but
don't throw an amp on full-range rear speakers.

Or he could listen to his ears and his own likes and dislikes and make
it sound good to him. Everyone has different preferences when it comes
to sound. I myself prefer to make it seem like I'm being bombarded
from
all sides. Some people like front only and hate any concept or rear
sound. Others like it just from the rear (kinky *******s). The whole
Front-stage and proper imaging thing is over-rated in my humble
opinion.
I could care less if it sounds like a live band and it sounds like the
guitar is coming from 3 feet to the left of center stage or whatever.
I
like what sounds good to me, and more power to you on yours.

Brandonb

If mediocre sound is the goal, then what is the point of discussing it
over the internet? People often like the 'surround sound' effect
because they've heard that's what sounds good from the likes of Bose.

I can't tell him if the Kicker 6x9's will sound good to his ears, just
like I can't convince him that the sound should come from in front of
him... so it really doesn't matter. But I will not change my advice
just because someone enjoys listening to their audio system in a way
that is technically wrong.


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In article ,
says...
oh i see now...you fade forward.....now i see why you dont hear your
rear deck...so you think you dont need them.....
listen..you are going to hear your fronts first anyways..if you fade to
them.then why have rears? youre cutting your rears out....
listen 6x9s are awsome.....solid mid bass/bass and more power
handling.....
now i have jvc/c.v/pioneer 6x9s but i was thinking of trying higher
end.not saying those c.v aint high end but they over 5yrs old....


I don't hear my front speakers first. They are time aligned (delayed)
so the car sounds like a live concert hall or the way the audio was
intended to sound by the recording group. My subs sound like they are
in the front also. When was the last time you went to a live concert
and heard the bass guitar or double bass in the back of the audience?
Why do you think many high-end car audio competitors were putting their
subs in the firewall or floor?
Yes it's possible to get reflections and reverb within a particular
hall, but to realistically hear that you need to have surround sound.
That is why car audio equipment companys are comming out with that type
systems.
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

Why on earth would you put more power to your rear speakers than to
you
put to your front? The goal is not to make a front/rear blended
sound... it is to create a realistic FRONT stage.

Who says?

Logic. It just makes sense...

That should be the goal of any respectable sound system. Even a stock
sound system should be faded forward so that a majority of the sound is
coming from the front speakers. If you want more bass, buy a sub... but
don't throw an amp on full-range rear speakers.

That's not what you said. You said "the goal is not to make a f/r blended
sound." Well, who says? A front stage is nice and all, but some music
doesn't take advantage of it as well as others. Sometimes the goal is to,
say, immerse yourself in an ocean of sound. Sometimes it's to provide the
biggest "punch". Sometimes it's to attempt to achieve the "flattest"
frequency response at high output levels. Different goals for different
folks.

While I agree with the notion that the front stage is more important than
the rears, which is due in part to imaging but also due to things like
frequency response irregularities, phase shifts and reflections, bass
response (proximity), and so forth. However, I wouldn't say completely
ignore the rears. If you can afford to, amplify the back speakers in
addition to the fronts. And yeah, try it with and without rears too.

Not that I'm disagreeing with the sentiment of what you posted, but I
think it's important to clarify exactly what the goals should be - make it
sound best to your ears. Whether that means a lot of power, a little
power, or no power to the rears depends on the listener.

If mediocre sound is the goal, then what is the point of discussing it
over the internet? People often like the 'surround sound' effect
because they've heard that's what sounds good from the likes of Bose.

What Brandon described is not "surround sound". Surround sound relies on
time delays to mimic positioning of various sounds of a musical or other
passage. Brandon didn't say or imply anything of the sort.

For instance, I have 12 channels of time alignment going to adjust my
rears and others so that they're all "in phase" with the fronts. I've
attempted to get rid of the delay with my setup. That's the opposite
strategy of surround sound.

I can't tell him if the Kicker 6x9's will sound good to his ears, just
like I can't convince him that the sound should come from in front of
him... so it really doesn't matter. But I will not change my advice
just because someone enjoys listening to their audio system in a way
that is technically wrong.

Please explain how it is "technically wrong."

i meant will sound alike....oops

uuhh i'm sorry when my stereo is on i hear all of it. not the fronts
then the rears....then the fronts again..... its all at once mostly....

jethro..i didnt ask howd itd sound to me but kicker, is it better than
alot in quality,wear,overall sound?
what you you say is as good a brand as kicker? sony,kenwood,jl,jbl,polk
or infinity?

bob wald Wrote:
jethro..i didnt ask howd itd sound to me but kicker, is it better than
alot in quality,wear,overall sound?
what you you say is as good a brand as kicker?
sony,kenwood,jl,jbl,polk
or infinity?

Of the brands you list, I would rate them like this (in general):

1. JL Audio
2. JBL / Polk / Kicker / Cerwin Vega
3. Kenwood
4. Sony

I would expect the Kicker 6x9's to have good midbass, as Kicker
speakers are known for having good output. They also are known for
having high quality speakers that take decent abuse.

The big unknown for someone who hasn't heard that particular speaker
(or line of speakers) is the tweeter. Every type of tweeter sounds
different... that is why it is important that YOU determine if they
sound good or not. To my ears a soft dome tweeter sounds good, but to
others; a metal dome sounds better...

I would think that at the price you listed, they would be a good deal.


--
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old school SQ guy
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On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:29:04 -0500, Brandonb
wrote:

Jethro wrote:
Logic. It just makes sense...

That should be the goal of any respectable sound system. Even a stock
sound system should be faded forward so that a majority of the sound is
coming from the front speakers. If you want more bass, buy a sub... but
don't throw an amp on full-range rear speakers.

Or he could listen to his ears and his own likes and dislikes and make
it sound good to him. Everyone has different preferences when it comes
to sound. I myself prefer to make it seem like I'm being bombarded from
all sides. Some people like front only and hate any concept or rear
sound. Others like it just from the rear (kinky *******s). The whole
Front-stage and proper imaging thing is over-rated in my humble opinion.
I could care less if it sounds like a live band and it sounds like the
guitar is coming from 3 feet to the left of center stage or whatever. I
like what sounds good to me, and more power to you on yours.

Brandonb

To each his own, that's true, but part of the problem is that Bob has
a habit of throwing out these bull**** "rules of thumb", like his
statement that you should put 35% more power to the rear speakers than
the front, or that amplifiers can only put out 88% of their rated
power.

If he wants to tailor HIS system to HIS own tastes, that's fine, but
putting out these suspiciously-precise figures and guidelines as
gospel to the rest of the readers is horse****.

--
Scott Gardner

"The media finally figured out that their "paying customers" (i.e. advertisers) don't WANT an intelligent, thoughtful audience. And they no longer have one." (Rich Tietjens)

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:30:45 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

uuhh i'm sorry when my stereo is on i hear all of it. not the fronts
then the rears....then the fronts again..... its all at once mostly....

So why did you say in your earlier post that you hear front speakers
first?

Here's your post, in case you forgot:

"listen..you are going to hear your fronts first anyways..if you fade
to them.then why have rears"


--
Scott Gardner

"Sense is not cognition but sensation." (Douglas Robinson)

the reason you put more power to the rears is to make it all come
togeher at the same time better.or blend better.
or it would be out of phase i guess...youd hear one part after the
fronts play thier part of that same part of the song.even though were
talking less than a secomd i guess.
So to balnce out the farther distance to the rears.more power ''scotty
damit!'' HA
i can never get his scottish accent right...

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:18:36 GMT, (No-one) wrote:



My subs dont sound directional LOL




My subs sound like they are
in the front also. When was the last time you went to a live concert
and heard the bass guitar or double bass in the back of the audience?
Why do you think many high-end car audio competitors were putting their
subs in the firewall or floor?
Yes it's possible to get reflections and reverb within a particular
hall, but to realistically hear that you need to have surround sound.
That is why car audio equipment companys are comming out with that type
systems.

Some of the instruments he's talking about (bass guitar, double-bass)
have high-enough frequencies in their range that you can still
localize them. In my experience, I can start to reliably localize
frequencies higher than 120-150Hz.

That's why, if I can fit good-sized midbass drivers in the kick
panels, I like to keep my subs in the back low-passed at around
70-80Hz. I'll set the high-pass for the midbass drivers at about
120Hz or so as a starting point, and rely on the natural cabin gain to
fill in the gap between the crossover points. That's just a starting
point, though - every car behaves a little differently.


--
Scott Gardner

"A conclusion is the place where you get tired of thinking." (Arthur Bloch)

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:39 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

different speakers even with the same frez will not sound alike..like
6x9s to 5 1/4s..so on.....
and different brands......
i've decided i must lower my advice.you dont even know the simplest
things.by this one here..lol is this guy 1 of your lil gangs
smartest?????

Which "guy" are you referring to? You're still too
ignorant/inconsiderate to quote in your posts.


--
Scott Gardner

"One of the more, um, entertaining aspects of riding is the astonishing
effortlessness under good conditions, the utter impossibility when
conditions exceed your skill envelope, and the abruptness of the transition. " (Bob Prohaska)

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:39:06 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

the reason you put more power to the rears is to make it all come
togeher at the same time better.or blend better.
or it would be out of phase i guess...youd hear one part after the
fronts play thier part of that same part of the song.even though were
talking less than a secomd i guess.
So to balnce out the farther distance to the rears.more power ''scotty
damit!'' HA
i can never get his scottish accent right...


/SARCASM ON

Yes, because everyone knows that louder sounds travel faster than
quieter sounds.

/SARCASM OFF

Dumbass - look at a basic physics textbook. The amplitude of a sound
has NO effect on how quickly it travels through the air. There's
nothing you can do to the relative volumes between the front and rear
speakers that's going to correct any kind of phase difference.


--
Scott Gardner

"I suppose they are vicious rascals, but it scarcely matters what they are. I'm after what they know." (Gibson-Sterling, The Difference Engine)

bob wald Wrote:
the reason you put more power to the rears is to make it all come
togeher at the same time better.or blend better.
or it would be out of phase i guess...youd hear one part after the
fronts play thier part of that same part of the song.even though were
talking less than a secomd i guess.
So to balnce out the farther distance to the rears.more power
''scotty
damit!'' HA
i can never get his scottish accent right...

That is complete and utter BS there Bob. Adding more power to your rear
speakers will have zero effect on phase. A sound wave of a given
frequency will travel the same speed no matter what the amplitude of
the wave is. The only way to properly adjust phase is with careful
time-alignment, or with a signal processor that allows you to switch
phase 180 degrees (but even that isn't very precise). But even then,
you still have localized sound coming from behind you... which IMO is
just annoying.

15+ years ago when I was just getting into this hobby, I ran 6x9's for
rear speakers. As my system morphed and improved, it became apparent
that something needed to change, as the image was getting dragged to
the rear... so I just clipped the tweeter wires on the 6x9's... those
Pyle 6x9's made for some great midbasses, but they eventually got axed
once I got some decent component speakers up front.


--
Jethro

old school SQ guy
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scott you would hear the fronts first with the same power all
around..doh..thats why i put more to the rear.to hear them all
together....ok
and its only a part of 1second difference front to back anyways......

my use of phase could be wrong here...but you saying more power does
nothing to change the sound from a speaker? hmmm i learn stuff
everyday...lol
not....

oh my godd..jethro..pyle...lol
i wouldnt take any advice from you on any good sounding car stereo,,,lol
you can buy other brands as cheap as pyle like jensen/boss but sound
detter..lol
oh my god..you shouldnt admtted you had pyle..i lost all respect for you
on the subject of car audio.....
jsyo..lol

Bob, why are you still here?

And other posters, why are you still actually discussing audio with this
guy? You should be discussing which pathology afflicted him as a child to
lead to such significant brain damage.

"bob wald" wrote in message
...
oh my godd..jethro..pyle...lol
i wouldnt take any advice from you on any good sounding car stereo,,,lol
you can buy other brands as cheap as pyle like jensen/boss but sound
detter..lol
oh my god..you shouldnt admtted you had pyle..i lost all respect for you
on the subject of car audio.....
jsyo..lol

jsyk...lol
i actually do have brain damage bub..motorcycle wreck......long
story.....

bob wald Wrote:
my use of phase could be wrong here...but you saying more power does
nothing to change the sound from a speaker? hmmm i learn stuff
everyday...lol
not....

Your comprehension skills are lacking. Nobody said more power wouldn't
change the sound from a speaker, we said that more power will not make
the wave arrive at your ears any quicker than less power... it will
just be at a higher volume level. The amplitude of the wave (how loud
it is) has ZERO effect on how fast the wave travels. Whether you are
running 50 watts to a speaker or 2 watts to a speaker, the wave travels
the same speed.

You are obviously in over your head in this simple discussion. I
recommend doing a little reading before you attempt to make yourself
sound smarter than the rest of us. Go to the following site, it has
some great information about car audio... scroll down the sidebar on
the right side to see different topics:

www.bcae1.com


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old school SQ guy
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i said more power would make the rear speakers more noticable......
not faster.......
either way it makes a difference..i see what youre doing..trying to trip
me up. n make me look bad.about car audio.lol...youve done stuck out
like 20times.trying to trip me up.....
When will you give up??//

bob wald Wrote:
oh my godd..jethro..pyle...lol
i wouldnt take any advice from you on any good sounding car
stereo,,,lol
you can buy other brands as cheap as pyle like jensen/boss but sound
detter..lol
oh my god..you shouldnt admtted you had pyle..i lost all respect for
you
on the subject of car audio.....
jsyo..lol

Yes Bob, at one time I was igorant about car audio (as you are now). As
I mentioned, that was 15 years ago. I quickly learned from my mistakes
and moved on from Pyle. End of story.


--
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old school SQ guy
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:34:36 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

my use of phase could be wrong here...but you saying more power does
nothing to change the sound from a speaker? hmmm i learn stuff
everyday...lol
not....


Damn, you read as poorly as you write. I said that changing the
amplitude (volume) of a sound does not change its speed through the
air. So, turning up the rear speakers will NOT make the sound get to
you any sooner, and it will NOT correct any phase differences between
the front and rear speakers. (Both of which you claimed in your post)

Of course adding power changes the sound from a speaker - it makes it
louder.




--
Scott Gardner

"Besides that, Mrs. Kennedy, how was your trip to Dallas?"

jsyk...lol
i actually do have brain damage bub..motorcycle wreck......long
story.....

Why am I not surprised?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:30:48 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

scott you would hear the fronts first with the same power all
around..doh..thats why i put more to the rear.to hear them all
together....ok
and its only a part of 1second difference front to back anyways......

Here's a newsflash, cretin - unless you have some kind of time-delay
circuitry, you're going to hear the front speakers first NO MATTER
WHAT. It doesn't matter whether your front speakers are louder or
whether your rear speakers are louder. "Putting more to the rear"
will NOT change this one little bit. Not by one millisecond,
microsecond, or nanosecond.

Loud noises do NOT travel any faster or slower than quiet noises. The
very first chapter of any book on sound propagation will expain this
to you. The ONLY things that affect the speed of sound are the
temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and CO2 concentration in
the air.

Notice that frequency and volume are not in that list. High-frequency
sounds travel just as fast as low-frequency sounds, and loud sounds
travel just as fast as slow sounds.

You talking about changing the time-of-arrival by adjusting the fader
is the stupidest/funniest thing I've heard on this group since
mmdir2000 accidentally let all the freon out of his car's air
conditioning system while trying to track down a bad ground in his
stereo system.

--
Scott Gardner

"Tis an ill wind that blows no minds."

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:15:18 -0500, (bob wald)
wrote:

i said more power would make the rear speakers more noticable......
not faster.......
either way it makes a difference..i see what youre doing..trying to trip
me up. n make me look bad.about car audio.lol...youve done stuck out
like 20times.trying to trip me up.....
When will you give up??//

We'll have to add "short-term memory" to the list of things you don't
have, along with writing skills and reading comprehension.

To refresh your memory, here's a quote from your earlier post:

"scott you would hear the fronts first with the same power all
around..doh..thats why i put more to the rear.to hear them all
together....ok"


Again, "putting more" to the rear is not going to do a damned thing to
help you "hear them all together". Without time-correction circuitry,
you're always going to hear the front speakers first, no matter how
much you fiddle with the fader.

And I hardly have to "try" to trip you up to make you look bad - as
long as we can keep you talking, you're a regular fountain of
foolishness - almost as much fun as mmdir200 and Spockie were.



--
Scott Gardner

"Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet air intakes."