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  #41   Report Post  
Brian
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Some people here have good avice. Thats the advice I follow. The few
others I will ignore.


"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:gISNb.79497$8H.115863@attbi_s03...
Why don't you go to their site and find out for yourself seeing as no matter
how much good advice we give you, you still come to your own goofball
conclusions anyway.


Paul Vina



"Brian" wrote in message
om...
I haven't tried PG yet. What model (or series) can you suggest?
Whats their best stuff?




Having said that I want to know if you've auditioned Phoenix Gold amps.

ZX
series, or the newer Titanium series. I've been hooked on them for

years.
The happiest I have ever been in terms of SQ was when I had my Nakamichi
CD-700 powering the aforementioned PG amps wtih the same Dyn 360 set you
have. The only bad thing I can say is I was running the entire system
actively

  #42   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

that is pretty funny Paul... But it is the way of the world..

Try hard to educate these goofballs and they still make
thier decision for no appearant reason...

Brian wrote:

Some people here have good avice. Thats the advice I follow. The few
others I will ignore.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:gISNb.79497$8H.115863@attbi_s03...
Why don't you go to their site and find out for yourself seeing as no matter
how much good advice we give you, you still come to your own goofball
conclusions anyway.


  #43   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

btw, there is no doubt in my mind that different amps have their own
"sonic signatures" when playing actual music and driving an actual
speaker load.


Well, of the list you provide, I have extensive experience with a/d/s/ (I
currently own 4 of them and have owned others too) and adcom. So I guess it
will disappoint you to hear that I've been unable to distinguish a
difference in "sonic signatures" between these and other amplifiers I used.
I guess that rules them out.

By the way, how are these "sonic signatures" coming about? Why do they
disappear when you bench test amplifiers driving actual loads? Are they
only peeking out when you're not measuring them, or have we still not
discovered some very important aspects about electricity that somehow causes
a speaker to move differently even when the signal isn't telling it to?


  #44   Report Post  
Brian
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I spoke with a principal at Dynaudio, who recommended Linear Power and
Brax reference amp.



I would add Genesis, LinearPower, a/d/s/, and....I can't think of my last
option.

  #45   Report Post  
Tony Fernandes
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Brian wrote: "I haven't tried PG yet. What model (or series) can you
suggest? Whats their best stuff?"

The ZX series is now called their Titanium series I believe. I'm not sure
there's much of a difference. However, if you've been reading all the
posts, then there's not much difference between the Titanium series and a
Radio Shack Optimus amplifer. LOL

All kidding aside, Mark, Paul, Soundfreak and Eddie really know their stuff.
Maybe I'm just not ready to believe them yet (denial is wonderful). I
believe my ears...which is connected to my brain...and if my brain is
deceiving me then oh well. It's all good. I appreciate and respect their
advice.

I myself have been pondering Brax amplifiers. But I can't justify the money
and honestly, I love my PG amps.

Tony


--



What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
I haven't tried PG yet. What model (or series) can you suggest?
Whats their best stuff?




Having said that I want to know if you've auditioned Phoenix Gold amps.

ZX
series, or the newer Titanium series. I've been hooked on them for

years.
The happiest I have ever been in terms of SQ was when I had my Nakamichi
CD-700 powering the aforementioned PG amps wtih the same Dyn 360 set you
have. The only bad thing I can say is I was running the entire system
actively





  #46   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Hey Mark, I have an Orion 2100 HCCA sitting here that is rated at 100w x 2 @
4ohms that will show you that a 100 watts is not 100watts.

100 watts IS 100 watts. But distortion content will differ between
amplifiers. However, simply put, it's too low to be audible.


  #47   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Hey Mark, I have an Orion 2100 HCCA sitting here that is rated at 100w x 2
@
4ohms that will show you that a 100 watts is not 100watts.


Yeah? What's wrong with it?


  #48   Report Post  
TheBIessedDead
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Hey Mark, I have an Orion 2100 HCCA sitting here that is rated at 100w x 2 @
4ohms that will show you that a 100 watts is not 100watts.


Hmmm...shoot, now I AM confused. If 100 watts isn't 100 watts...... Then what
the hell IS 100 watts????


Nick
  #49   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
With all of the different options between amps such as x-overs,

bass-boost,
compression, it's hard to get any two amps to sound the same. Another

problem
is that 100watts is not the same between any two amps. Although I see what

you
a watt, is a watt, no matter what.


  #50   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

"Brian" wrote in message
m...

Someone else also sugested trying Audison VRx series, and Diamond D7
series. Yes, also Brax, Adcom (ebay), A/D/S, McIntosh and Xtant. I
only wish I had time to spend trying all these different amps out.
lol

If anyone has experience with any of these amps mentioned, please
comment. Perhaps some opinions could help narrow it down a bit.

btw, there is no doubt in my mind that different amps have their own
"sonic signatures" when playing actual music and driving an actual
speaker load.


it's funny that you mention Diamond those amps were developed by Esoteric
Audio before they went thru their things.




  #51   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
I spoke with a principal at Dynaudio, who recommended Linear Power and
Brax reference amp.



I would add Genesis, LinearPower, a/d/s/, and....I can't think of my

last
option.


well then give them a look, who did you speak with??


  #52   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

There is nothing wrong with it other then it being extremely under rated and
the fact that not many amps in it's class will keep up to it's rated 200
watts. How many 200watt amps have you seen that need to be fused at 120amps.


In article , "Mark Zarella"
wrote:
Hey Mark, I have an Orion 2100 HCCA sitting here that is rated at 100w x 2

@
4ohms that will show you that a 100 watts is not 100watts.


Yeah? What's wrong with it?


  #53   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I totally understand that a watt is a watts. What I am saying is that a watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers. You can have two brand new
amplifiers that are both the same make and model and one will put out more
wattage then the other.

In article , "Tha Ghee"
wrote:
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
With all of the different options between amps such as x-overs,

bass-boost,
compression, it's hard to get any two amps to sound the same. Another

problem
is that 100watts is not the same between any two amps. Although I see what

you
a watt, is a watt, no matter what.


  #54   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

But yet, none of them use Radio Shack Optimus amplifiers.


In article , "Tony Fernandes"
wrote:
Brian wrote: "I haven't tried PG yet. What model (or series) can you
suggest? Whats their best stuff?"

The ZX series is now called their Titanium series I believe. I'm not sure
there's much of a difference. However, if you've been reading all the
posts, then there's not much difference between the Titanium series and a
Radio Shack Optimus amplifer. LOL

All kidding aside, Mark, Paul, Soundfreak and Eddie really know their stuff.
Maybe I'm just not ready to believe them yet (denial is wonderful). I
believe my ears...which is connected to my brain...and if my brain is
deceiving me then oh well. It's all good. I appreciate and respect their
advice.

I myself have been pondering Brax amplifiers. But I can't justify the money
and honestly, I love my PG amps.

Tony


  #55   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

There is nothing wrong with it other then it being extremely under rated
and
the fact that not many amps in it's class will keep up to it's rated 200
watts. How many 200watt amps have you seen that need to be fused at

120amps.

If it's underrated, then it's not a 200 watt amp.




  #56   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I totally understand that a watt is a watts. What I am saying is that a
watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers. You can have two brand new
amplifiers that are both the same make and model and one will put out more
wattage then the other.


So what does that tell you, aside from one is more powerful than the other?


  #57   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

But yet, none of them use Radio Shack Optimus amplifiers.

They don't have any amps that have the feature set I want. My amp-buying
strategy was to buy the cheapest possible amp that has the features I
needed. I was after multichannel amplifiers that took up little space and
had the internal crossovers necessary to triamp my front component set and
biamp my rears. Hence, I ended up with used older amps off of ebay. I have
18 channels of amplification in my car, and spent $400 in total.


  #58   Report Post  
ampdoc
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

So does anyone here like the US Amps products? I've looked in a couple of
them and they have a very solid design, at least the USA50HC, 100HC and the
2000X looked good.


--
Jammy Harbin
J & J Electronics, Inc
227 S. 4Th St.
Selmer, TN 38375
731-645-3311
"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
I spoke with a principal at Dynaudio, who recommended Linear Power and
Brax reference amp.



I would add Genesis, LinearPower, a/d/s/, and....I can't think of my

last
option.


well then give them a look, who did you speak with??




  #59   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

But yet, none of them use Radio Shack Optimus amplifiers.


You right. I can find an amp with the features I want for less. They do not
make a 5 channel amp, 4 channels of class AB and a channel of class D for the
sub.
I have owned all kinds of amps though, from Crunch to Phoenix Gold to Memphis.
There are WAY more important qualities to search for with an amp. Why do you
have a hard time understanding that?

Les
  #60   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

btw, there is no doubt in my mind that different amps have their own
"sonic signatures" when playing actual music and driving an actual
speaker load.


How many blind listening tests have you been involved in?
Nonetheless there are more important things to look for in an amp than being
concerned with SQ. But noobs have it in thier minds that if it does not have
that certain name on the front that it will not sound good. That is just not
the case, its an audio myth, perpetuated by manufactures and ignorance. Tell
me, how can you hear a lack of bass response when the amp in flat in your
hearing range? Or a lack of midrange or that "air". Your brain can play serious
tricks on you, and I think you have been duped.

Les


  #61   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

There is nothing wrong with it other then it being extremely under rated and
the fact that not many amps in it's class will keep up to it's rated 200
watts. How many 200watt amps have you seen that need to be fused at 120amps.


And the whole time we the discussion has been about real watts, not the numbers
printed on the box. If it can cleanly put out more than 200Watts then it is not
a 200Watt amp. Are you confused again Howdy, does everyone need to type in
smaller words so you can keep up?

Les
  #62   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I totally understand that a watt is a watts. What I am saying is that a watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers. You can have two brand new
amplifiers that are both the same make and model and one will put out more
wattage then the other.


So?? What is your point?
  #63   Report Post  
Brian
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I spoke with Al.

I appologize for getting defensive to a few posts here. I do
appreciate and respect everyone's experience and opinion.

Its getting overwhelming trying to decide what amp to get. There's
just too many options out there. People keep suggesting more and more
different brands. There's just too many!!! Adcom, a/d/s, Audison,
Brax, Butler, Diamond, DLS, Genesis, LinearPower, McIntosh,
PhoenixGold, PPI, Xtant, Zapco...

If anyone has experience with any of these, please share your comments
as far as sound quality goes. (please name specific models) I
already tried Butler TDB-475, DLS Ultimate A3, PPI PCX-4125, and Zapco
C2K-6.0X.

Thank you.









I would add Genesis, LinearPower, a/d/s/, and....I can't think of my

last
option.


well then give them a look, who did you speak with??

  #64   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

What it tells me is that 100 watts is not 100watts between any two amplifiers.
Like I said.


In article , "Mark Zarella"
wrote:
I totally understand that a watt is a watts. What I am saying is that a

watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers. You can have two brand new
amplifiers that are both the same make and model and one will put out more
wattage then the other.


So what does that tell you, aside from one is more powerful than the other?


  #66   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

It says right on the amp that it's 200watts. LOL

In article , "Mark Zarella"
wrote:
There is nothing wrong with it other then it being extremely under rated

and
the fact that not many amps in it's class will keep up to it's rated 200
watts. How many 200watt amps have you seen that need to be fused at

120amps.

If it's underrated, then it's not a 200 watt amp.


  #67   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!



And the whole time we the discussion has been about real watts, not the numbers
printed on the box.


No the numbers are engraved on the amp. LOL


If it can cleanly put out more than 200Watts then it is not
a 200Watt amp.


It says that it's a 200watts amp right on it.



Are you confused again Howdy, does everyone need to type in
smaller words so you can keep up?


No the font size is just fine, it's all of your spelling mistakes that are
slowing me down.

Les

  #68   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

What it tells me is that 100 watts is not 100watts between any two
amplifiers.
Like I said.


What happens if you remove the little "100 watt" emblem from the amp and put
"10000 watts" on it? Would that then make it a 10000 watt amp?


  #69   Report Post  
sanitarium
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Im gonna recommend older hifonics VIII amps. I love my
odin/vulcan/jupiter setup for my highs. IMHO they seem to clip less
harshly when pushed to their limits. IMHO this is important with the
image dynamics horn conpression drivers I am running for front
soundstage, they can get harsh around 3200 Hz if the amplified signal is
not "clean".

I am one of those who cant hear an audible difference between amp
circuits when driven within their linear range. IMHO my profile CA 1200
sounds just as good as my hifonics amps when driven within its linear
range. So I think you should try and listen to as many amps as
possible, you may be pleasantly surprised. My profile is supposed to be
a Korean turd but IMHO it sounds good and has been very reliable the
past 2 years running @ 2 ohms.

Garrett

Brian wrote:

Please offer your advice on what amp to get. I've wasted a lot of
time/money and its time to seek some expert advice before going any
further!

I've managed to cram a Dynaudio System 360 into the front doors and
kick-panels of a 2003 Passat. (3-way system with 8" midbass, 3"
softdome midrange, and 1" softdome tweeter.) In the rear doors is a
Dynaudio System 240 (2-way system with 6-1/2" midbass and 1" softdome
tweeter.) All speakers are standard 4ohm.

I'd like to power these full range (no subs) using the Dynaudio
passive crossover boxes.

The amp characteristic I'm trying to achieve would be similar to an
Aragon 8008 (home audio amp). I've not been able to find a car audio
amp that sounds like it. Its a very neutral sound. Doesn't add
anything thats not already there, but just faithfully provides
everything thats in the recording.

Here's the amps I've tried so far:

PPI PCX-4125 (125W x4ch) -- I love the rich midrange and midbass,
but the highs are a little rough and there is absolutely no extended
highs ("air") at all.

Zapco C2K-6.0X (150W x2ch -- used to power all 4 speakers as a 2ohm
stereo load) -- This amp is incredibly clean-sounding. The extended
highs are immaculate. But it sounds thin in the midrange, as if
something is missing. The meat and potatoes just not there.

Butler Tube Driver Blue TDB-475 (75W x4ch) -- From what I've read, I
expected this amp to be the solution, but it sounds weak in the bass
and mid-bass and is just not neutral enough. It has an interesting
sound, but is somehow "fake", as if the sound is going through some
kind of sound processer to give it some sort of "effect". (I guess
thats what the tubes are adding to the sound?) The music just didn't
sound "real" to me.

I actually hooked up my Aragon 8008 home amp to run these Dynaudio
speakers, and it sounded perfect, so its not just a case of me
searching for something thats impossible. Is there a car amp that can
do what the Aragon can do? (If it was possible to convert the Aragon
to run on 12VDC, I would!)

Do you have any opinions on an amp that is very neutral, but also has
some "meat and potatoes" in the midrange and midbass? (that has the
rich PPI mid-bass/mid-range, but also with the Zapco's pristine
extended-highs.)

(4 channel is preferred, but not mandatory)

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated !! Thank you.



  #70   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

My point is stated below, Lester are challenged also?

Your point is pointless. You stated;


"What I am saying is that a watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers."

A watt is a watt is a watt. A watt in one amp is the same as a watt in another
amp. Does that confuse you? What a watt is does not change between amps as you
seem to think. The label on the amp is meaningless, only noobs go by the label
on the amp. Hmmm that doesn't shock me that you do rely on that meaningless
stickers on the amp.

Les




  #71   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

And the whole time we the discussion has been about real watts, not the
numbers
printed on the box.


No the numbers are engraved on the amp. LOL


So? I think you have trouble reading in context. I said REAL watts, as in the
watts the amp is able to cleanly put out. Just because they put a number on the
amp does not mean it is true. Is that a concept you have trouble understanding?


It says that it's a 200watts amp right on it.



Again. so?

No the font size is just fine, it's all of your spelling mistakes that are
slowing me down.


Funny, they do not seem to slow anyone else down. But then again, most people
do not have reading problems like you and Puggy.

Les
  #72   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

What happens if you remove the little "100 watt" emblem from the amp and put
"10000 watts" on it? Would that then make it a 10000 watt amp?


Of course Everyone knows that the emblem on the amp is always the truth.

(The previous statement is soaked in sarcasm, just clarification for Howdy's
bad reading skills)

Les
  #73   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

10 watts IS 100 watts. But you can't say that one amp's 100 watts is more
than another's because the first is underrated. If the first is underrated
then it's not a 100 watt amp so it BETTER be louder.



Paul Vina




"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
Hey Mark, I have an Orion 2100 HCCA sitting here that is rated at 100w x

2 @
4ohms that will show you that a 100 watts is not 100watts.


Hmmm...shoot, now I AM confused. If 100 watts isn't 100 watts...... Then

what
the hell IS 100 watts????


Nick



  #74   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

So?
You can't look at ratings, only at ACTUAL power output when making
comparisons.



Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I totally understand that a watt is a watts. What I am saying is that a

watt
is not a watt between any two amplifiers. You can have two brand new
amplifiers that are both the same make and model and one will put out more
wattage then the other.

In article , "Tha Ghee"
wrote:
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
With all of the different options between amps such as x-overs,

bass-boost,
compression, it's hard to get any two amps to sound the same. Another

problem
is that 100watts is not the same between any two amps. Although I see

what
you
a watt, is a watt, no matter what.




  #75   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I know. It's like, "tell me all of your opinions, because I want what you
have and if you want me to make up my own mind then you'r an asshole for
suggesting I come to my own conclusion". And people wonder why the general
state of car audio blows.




Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
that is pretty funny Paul... But it is the way of the world..

Try hard to educate these goofballs and they still make
thier decision for no appearant reason...

Brian wrote:

Some people here have good avice. Thats the advice I follow. The few
others I will ignore.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message

news:gISNb.79497$8H.115863@attbi_s03...
Why don't you go to their site and find out for yourself seeing as no

matter
how much good advice we give you, you still come to your own goofball
conclusions anyway.






  #76   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

I didn't think Optimus was still making amps. Besides, they don't have any
that fit my needs when they did make them.



Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
But yet, none of them use Radio Shack Optimus amplifiers.


In article , "Tony Fernandes"
wrote:
Brian wrote: "I haven't tried PG yet. What model (or series) can you
suggest? Whats their best stuff?"

The ZX series is now called their Titanium series I believe. I'm not

sure
there's much of a difference. However, if you've been reading all the
posts, then there's not much difference between the Titanium series and a
Radio Shack Optimus amplifer. LOL

All kidding aside, Mark, Paul, Soundfreak and Eddie really know their

stuff.
Maybe I'm just not ready to believe them yet (denial is wonderful). I
believe my ears...which is connected to my brain...and if my brain is
deceiving me then oh well. It's all good. I appreciate and respect

their
advice.

I myself have been pondering Brax amplifiers. But I can't justify the

money
and honestly, I love my PG amps.

Tony




  #77   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

10 watts IS 100 watts.

Since when?


  #78   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

Let's see, I've used Soundstream Granite 60.2, Rubicon 604 and 702, Rockford
Fosgate Punch 40dsm, Linear Power 992IQ and 652IQ, MTX 4300X, Kicker ZR600,
ZR360 and ZX460, Bazooka EL1500 and EL460 and JL Audio 300/4.
Thay've all done what I've wanted them to do. Somew were ballsier than
others but comparing a *rated* 600 watt amp against a *rated* 40 watt amp
would be stupid, so I won't do it. I used the Punch 40 for 3 10W6s and they
sounded awesome and I used the ZR600 on the same 10W6s in the same box and
they sounded great on that, just louder.


Paul Vina


If anyone has experience with any of these, please share your comments
as far as sound quality goes. (please name specific models) I
already tried Butler TDB-475, DLS Ultimate A3, PPI PCX-4125, and Zapco
C2K-6.0X.

Thank you.









I would add Genesis, LinearPower, a/d/s/, and....I can't think of my

last
option.


well then give them a look, who did you speak with??



  #79   Report Post  
Soundfreak03
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!

10 watts IS 100 watts.

Paul, I will take 10 of those amps off of your hands Your going to be a
millionaire, don't forget us little people
  #80   Report Post  
Tony Fernandes
 
Posts: n/a
Default your Car Amplifier advice, please!


Soundfreak wrote: "only noobs go by the label on the amp."

Is there such a thing as a passive amplier? Because my Phoenix Gold amps
don't have any power rating labels on them!!! WHAT AM I GONNA DO??? :-)

Tony



What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact


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