[[email protected]]

It got a 22" cone for real. It got a raw phatass magnet. It weigh 369
lbs. You need a 'Lade to haul the mofo. I want dat ****. I want dat
****!!

Whiny librarian neighbor yakkin 'bout sleep. She say she gotta work AM.
Fuk dat ****. I wake dat bitch up cause it all about ME and my fly rig.

I wanna rock da hood from 1,000 yards, none o' dat 200 yard ****. U
can't tuch dat, homes! Gimme dat MTX now, bitch! Aye, it pricey but I
just steal some **** for cash. It all about ME.

http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/pro...jackHammer.cfm

"YOU'VE GOT THE RIDE. YOU'RE ROLLIN' ON DUB DUBS. STOP PLAYIN' WITH
THOSE TINY 15s AND SHOW 'EM WHAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT. EXCESS IS IT AND
JACKHAMMER IS ALL ABOUT EXCESS!"

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)

[MOSFET]

Was he writing in some other language because I didn't get any of that.

MOSFET

wrote in message
ups.com...
It got a 22" cone for real. It got a raw phatass magnet. It weigh 369
lbs. You need a 'Lade to haul the mofo. I want dat ****. I want dat
****!!

Whiny librarian neighbor yakkin 'bout sleep. She say she gotta work AM.
Fuk dat ****. I wake dat bitch up cause it all about ME and my fly rig.

I wanna rock da hood from 1,000 yards, none o' dat 200 yard ****. U
can't tuch dat, homes! Gimme dat MTX now, bitch! Aye, it pricey but I
just steal some **** for cash. It all about ME.

http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/pro...jackHammer.cfm

"YOU'VE GOT THE RIDE. YOU'RE ROLLIN' ON DUB DUBS. STOP PLAYIN' WITH
THOSE TINY 15s AND SHOW 'EM WHAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT. EXCESS IS IT AND
JACKHAMMER IS ALL ABOUT EXCESS!"

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)

[[email protected]]

MOSFET wrote:

Was he writing in some other language because I didn't get any of that.

It be da language of da people wit da boom, biotch. Da language no
chump can unnastand.

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)

[MOSFET]

It be da language of da people wit da boom, biotch. Da language no
chump can unnastand.

Oh THANK GOD, I'm a chump!! I don't want to "unnastand".

MOSFET

[PhattyMo]

wrote:
It got a 22" cone for real. It got a raw phatass magnet. It weigh 369
lbs. You need a 'Lade to haul the mofo. I want dat ****. I want dat
****!!

Whiny librarian neighbor yakkin 'bout sleep. She say she gotta work AM.
Fuk dat ****. I wake dat bitch up cause it all about ME and my fly rig.

I wanna rock da hood from 1,000 yards, none o' dat 200 yard ****. U
can't tuch dat, homes! Gimme dat MTX now, bitch! Aye, it pricey but I
just steal some **** for cash. It all about ME.

http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/pro...jackHammer.cfm

"YOU'VE GOT THE RIDE. YOU'RE ROLLIN' ON DUB DUBS. STOP PLAYIN' WITH
THOSE TINY 15s AND SHOW 'EM WHAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT. EXCESS IS IT AND
JACKHAMMER IS ALL ABOUT EXCESS!"

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)



Typical Gimp.

Come wake me up,I'll make you EAT that ****in speaker.

[[email protected]]

PhattyMo wrote:

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)



Typical Gimp.

Come wake me up,I'll make you EAT that ****in speaker.

That response tells me you don't know ROT13.

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)

[Troy T.]

Take your stupid **** somewhere else.Car audio isnt about having all
bass.Its more then that dumbass.

TroyT.

[[email protected]]

Troy T. wrote:

Take your stupid **** somewhere else.Car audio isnt about having all
bass.Its more then that dumbass.

Do you know what ROT13 is? Hint: I'm wit you, homes. Guvf jnf fngver.

On another topic; if you're going to use the word "dumbass" I'd fix
those missing apostrophes, lack of spaces after periods and "then"
where "than" should be.

LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)

[PhattyMo]

wrote:
PhattyMo wrote:

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)


Typical Gimp.

Come wake me up,I'll make you EAT that ****in speaker.

That response tells me you don't know ROT13.

Yours truly, LBS (Ybjyvsr Obbzre Fphz)



I know ROT13..and 47,and...anyways..

Fitting name.

[D.Kreft]

Wow, some things never change--there still isn't any shortage of
trollers on USENET or people who are quick to pull out their
flamethrowers.

http://www.rot13.com/

Interesting. I wonder how it actually sounds. Seems pretty impractical
to have a driver with a 21"+ mounting depth.

Many moons ago, EV made a 30" speaker (I'm not sure it could be
considered a subwoofer) and my shop actually installed one into the
back of a Saab turbo. I never got a chance to listen to it, but I was
told it was pretty impressive, despite its 15W power rating. When
you've got that much cone on an efficient driver, I suppose you don't
need much power. :-)

-dan

[Tony F]

Ur'f znxvat n wbxr, naq boivbhfyl gelvat znxr sha bs ybjyvsr onff fphzf.

http://www.rot13.com

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1
Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear
Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

2006 Mustang GT Coupe
Alpine IVA-D310 DVD Head Unit, Alpine MRA-550 Digital 5.1 Amp, Boston
Acoustics Z-Series Speakers, Alpine SBS-05DC Center Channel Speaker,
Amplified MTX Thunderform Sub

[PanHandler]

wrote in message
ups.com...

On another topic; if you're going to use the word "dumbass" I'd fix
those missing apostrophes, lack of spaces after periods and "then"
where "than" should be.

And you need to learn proper sentence construction.

[MOSFET]

Tony,

Fdfh sds ewe gow ewre ckjsdsd!!!!


MOSFET

[[email protected]]

D.Kreft wrote:

Wow, some things never change--there still isn't any shortage of
trollers on USENET or people who are quick to pull out their
flamethrowers.

http://www.rot13.com/

Interesting. I wonder how it actually sounds. Seems pretty impractical
to have a driver with a 21"+ mounting depth.

Many moons ago, EV made a 30" speaker (I'm not sure it could be
considered a subwoofer) and my shop actually installed one into the
back of a Saab turbo. I never got a chance to listen to it, but I was
told it was pretty impressive, despite its 15W power rating. When
you've got that much cone on an efficient driver, I suppose you don't
need much power. :-)

The frequency curves of "phat" stereos are far too exaggerated at the
low end. It's not balanced sound. If true sound quality (not ego) is
one's goal, I think you can do fine with one or two tight 8" subs in
most cars. 10" tops. Bass beyond that is mostly about thug appeal. It
overwhelms the other frequencies at any significant volume.

The first time I rode in a "boom car" (mid 90s) I knew it was all for
show. It quickly became unpleasant to listen to and physically annoying
to be around. These fools drive around causing themselves pain and
inflicting it on everyone else. The same mindset makes them endure
low-rider cars with stiff, bumpy rides.

Brad

[[email protected]]

PanHandler wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

On another topic; if you're going to use the word "dumbass" I'd fix
those missing apostrophes, lack of spaces after periods and "then"
where "than" should be.

And you need to learn proper sentence construction.

How so? at least i dont rite like this like so many ppls do

Brad

[[email protected]]

MOSFET wrote:

Tony,

Fdfh sds ewe gow ewre ckjsdsd!!!!

Vf gung erny be tvoorevfu? V frr ibjry cnggreaf ohg pna'g znxr frafr bs
vg jvgu fvzcyr fuvsgf.

http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/hol...ing/caesar.htm

Brad

[MOSFET]

Vf gung erny be tvoorevfu? V frr ibjry cnggreaf ohg pna'g znxr frafr bs
vg jvgu fvzcyr fuvsgf.


Nope. It's only funny twice.

That's the rule (of course, I just arbitrarily made that rule because I was
the second one to do it).

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

Ur'f znxvat n wbxr, naq boivbhfyl gelvat znxr sha bs ybjyvsr onff fphzf.

http://www.rot13.com

Tony

OMG

I had no idea you were actually saying anything.

[John]

D.Kreft wrote:

The same mindset makes them endure
low-rider cars with stiff, bumpy rides.

Brad


Just because it rides low does not mean it has to be uncomfortable...


--
John

[mfreak]

... I think you can do fine with one or two tight 8" subs in
most cars. 10" tops. Bass beyond that is mostly about thug appeal. It
overwhelms the other frequencies at any significant volume.

Not if you do it right.. I have a pair of 12's and my system is
balanced very nicely. In fact I have identical amps running my subs
and the inside 4 corners. I def. wouldn't consider my car a boom car,
although I can if I want to.. Plenty of ppl in this forum who aren't
boomers have 12's or better. 12's or 15's are fine for non-boomers, you
just can't neglect the rest of the system.

The first time I rode in a "boom car" (mid 90s) I knew it was all for
show. It quickly became unpleasant to listen to and physically annoying
to be around. These fools drive around causing themselves pain and
inflicting it on everyone else. The same mindset makes them endure
low-rider cars with stiff, bumpy rides.

'Unpleasant'? Obviously a fukd up system.. I only really pound on the
freeway where I'm not bothering anyone.. If that's pain, then it's
glorious beautiful pain! When I'm in town I have more respect than
that.. I'd actually be embarrassed to be sitting there at a red light
pounding away with everyone looking at me like 'WTF?!' I'm not in high
school anymore! Even if I didn't give a ****, I'd turn it down anyway
so nobody would follow me home and gank my system! I'm not trying to
advertise........

[mfreak]

http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/pro...jackHammer.cfm

From TFA:

"JackHammers are shipped in either the SPL mode, with dual 2O voice
coils, or as the SQL model with dual 4O voice coils."

I want the SQL model!

select max(spl), min(freq), rms, peak
from mtx.jack_hammer
where weight=369
and magnet='STRONTIUM'
and impedance='4'
and vc_type='SQL'
group by rms,peak
order by price
;

no rows selected.

SYSTEM@mySQL

[mfreak]

no rows selected.

SYSTEM@mySQL

Let me broaden my search criteria once....

select *
from mtx.jackhammer
where upper(practical) in ('Y','YES')
;

no rows selected.

SYSTEM@mySQL

Ok, well that settles it then..........

[bob wald]

its all show n ya can talk. otheria wise walk..lol
ya see homeyyyy.these guys here all drive ole buicks n caddys. like 15
yrs old..anything else is just for show...lol
now i'm no fan of mtx...but the measurements i read tells me you
wouldnt be able to take the volume inside the car....
oh you betta have 6 strong batterys n a large cap......for the amp to
run just that.....

[Troy T.]

Brad,

I am sorry about my first comment.I dont know rot13.I just cant stand
people that have their bass ALL the way up so that all you hear is
bass and their car about to rattel apart.
I have seen the Jackhammers installed in a car and they actually ave
this massive metal support bracket to hold it up. Again im sorry

TroyT

[Captain_Howdy]

Damn newbies.

In article .com, "Troy T."
wrote:
Brad,

I am sorry about my first comment.I dont know rot13.I just cant stand
people that have their bass ALL the way up so that all you hear is
bass and their car about to rattel apart.
I have seen the Jackhammers installed in a car and they actually ave
this massive metal support bracket to hold it up. Again im sorry

TroyT

[D.Kreft]

I. Care wrote:

Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

I got news for you--the spam ain't never going to stop. I had to kill
my original e-mail address bigdan at kreft dot net after getting
deluged with spam. About 7 years later, I figured that I'd revive it
and as soon as I did, I got deluged with spam again.

Once your address finds its way onto those jokers' cd-roms or dvds, it
ain't never coming off because, as I understand it, they get paid by
the address.

One think you could do is use http://groups.google.com/, which will
automatically obfuscate your e-mail address for you. It's not as
full-featured as a "real" news-reader, but it serves the purpose. :-)

-dan

[Troy T.]

I. Care,
I am not an R.A.C newbie.

TroyT.

[MOSFET]

http://www.teamrocs.com/crap/newbie.htm
--

I took a look at "TeamRoc". You have to kind of wonder about an
organization that has in it's FAQ "Does TeamRoc Accept Homosexuals?". I
mean, does that issue really come up a lot (I am not trying to say whether
being gay is wrong or not, it just seemed an odd place for that issue to
pop up)?

Also, $50 membership seems a little steep for what you get, which is
basically nothing (well, a T-shirt) and membership in an "Internet Car Audio
Club". I mean, IASCA is only $40 and you get a CD to help tune your car,
rule book and most important, the ability to compete (if you can still find
an IASCA sponsored event).

But as far as online car audio goes, hell, RAC is free.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

My reply was to Captain_Howdy who made the comment about newbies.
--

Geez, if you spent your time answering every one of Howdy's insults, you'd
go crazy. Ignore him while you can!!! Just look at me!!!!

LOL LOL LOL LOL BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

MOSFET
(do you want to end up like this?)

[Troy T.]

ok. sounded like it was towards me

TroyT.

[[email protected]]

mfreak wrote:

... I think you can do fine with one or two tight 8" subs in
most cars. 10" tops. Bass beyond that is mostly about thug appeal. It
overwhelms the other frequencies at any significant volume.

Not if you do it right.. I have a pair of 12's and my system is
balanced very nicely. In fact I have identical amps running my subs
and the inside 4 corners. I def. wouldn't consider my car a boom car,
although I can if I want to.. Plenty of ppl in this forum who aren't
boomers have 12's or better. 12's or 15's are fine for non-boomers, you
just can't neglect the rest of the system.

But why are 12's really necessary? I'm sure you know that woofer
diameter is unrelated to frequency extension. It only helps boost the
SPL. You can go below 20hz inside your skull with good earbuds (i.e.
Sony Fontopia), so driver size is only relative to the space you're
filling. Considering that a typical car has less than half the
air-space of a small bathroom, big woofers can be overkill. That is,
unless you drive around with the windows open and the pressure isn't
contained. I'm sure you can run 12's in a mellow way but to me they
just waste cargo space and may not sound as tight. A single Bazooka 8"
has been quite adequate inside my truck cab and I can easily feel 35hz.

The first time I rode in a "boom car" (mid 90s) I knew it was all for
show. It quickly became unpleasant to listen to and physically annoying
to be around. These fools drive around causing themselves pain and
inflicting it on everyone else. The same mindset makes them endure
low-rider cars with stiff, bumpy rides.

'Unpleasant'? Obviously a fukd up system.. I only really pound on the
freeway where I'm not bothering anyone.. If that's pain, then it's
glorious beautiful pain! When I'm in town I have more respect than
that.. I'd actually be embarrassed to be sitting there at a red light
pounding away with everyone looking at me like 'WTF?!' I'm not in high
school anymore! Even if I didn't give a ****, I'd turn it down anyway
so nobody would follow me home and gank my system! I'm not trying to
advertise........

Well, you can control the boom urge, but the mofos who can't are
everywhere! They think they look as cool as others think they look
stupid. Yes, that was a logical sentence.

Brad

[flak_monkey]

The jackhammer is a pile of crap. A really heavy pile of loud,
obnoxious, distortion-making crap.
People who want it are children with little peckers who think that
louder = better sound quality and have never heard a properly tuned
setup, much less ever thought about owning one.


--
flak_monkey

[mfreak]

wrote:
But why are 12's really necessary? I'm sure you know that woofer
diameter is unrelated to frequency extension. It only helps boost the
SPL.

Are you saying that an 8 can hit a low as well as a 12? Totally wrong,
here's a couple quick examples from the mfr's own web sites:

Kicker L7 8" - 28-100 Hz
Kicker L7 12" - 20-100Hz

Pioneer Premier TS-SW841D - 30-1500 Hz
Pioneer Premier TS-SW1241D - 18-1000 Hz

Size DOES appear to be related to freq. response.... As for "It only
helps boost the SPL.", well hell yeah it does! I've had 10's, 12's,
and 15's in the past. The bigger, the louder, AND the lower. If
you're happy at a level of SPL and SQ that 8's can give you, then
that's great! You'll spend a lot less $, and you'll have more room in
your trunk. I personally require more than that.

[John]

wrote:
But why are 12's really necessary? I'm sure you know that woofer
diameter is unrelated to frequency extension. It only helps boost the
SPL.

mfreak wrote:
Are you saying that an 8 can hit a low as well as a 12? Totally wrong,
here's a couple quick examples from the mfr's own web sites:

Kicker L7 8" - 28-100 Hz
Kicker L7 12" - 20-100Hz

Pioneer Premier TS-SW841D - 30-1500 Hz
Pioneer Premier TS-SW1241D - 18-1000 Hz


Neither of you know much do you?


--
John

[mfreak]

John wrote:
Neither of you know much do you?

Care to explain what your problem is? Bigger subs are louder and
lower. Am I wrong?

[D.Kreft]

flak_monkey wrote:

The jackhammer is a pile of crap. A really heavy pile of loud,
obnoxious, distortion-making crap.
People who want it are children with little peckers who think that
louder = better sound quality and have never heard a properly tuned
setup, much less ever thought about owning one.

Interesting analysis. Does this come from your first-hand experience
with the driver or from something else?

-dan

[D.Kreft]

mfreak wrote:

Are you saying that an 8 can hit a low as well as a 12? Totally wrong,
here's a couple quick examples from the mfr's own web sites:

Kicker L7 8" - 28-100 Hz
Kicker L7 12" - 20-100Hz

Pioneer Premier TS-SW841D - 30-1500 Hz
Pioneer Premier TS-SW1241D - 18-1000 Hz

Again, I'd like to remind everyone that comparing subwoofers outside of
an enclosure is pretty much meaningless.

Size DOES appear to be related to freq. response....

It would appear that way, but in reality it has more to do with the
Vd--which is the volume of air that the speaker can displace, and the
resonant frequency of the driver (Fs) [see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiel/Small].

It's a simple matter of physics and the frequency response of the human
ear.

Physics:

Any object with mass X is going to have a lower resonant frequency than
an object of the same material with a mass less than X. Basically, the
heavier something is, the lower the frequency it is going to be at
which it will "want" to vibrate (see
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HxTZ446tbzE for a great example of a massive
system whose undamped low-frequency osscilations caused its
destruction).

The unfortunate part about this is that we get nothing for free--as you
increase the moving mass of the system, you reduce its efficiency. As
you reduce its efficiency, you must increase power to get the same
output. As you increase power, you drive the speaker to its physical
and thermal limits. To increase the Xmax of the driver to get more
output from the smaller driver at low frequencies, you start running
into practical limitations of conventional loudspeaker design, namely a
great difficulty in designing a suspension that is capable of remaining
somewhat linear throughout a very large travel. And as Xmax increases,
you have to put a bigger and bigger motor on the back of that subwoofer
in order to "wrench" it back and forth so rapidly over so great a
distance--which puts incredible amounts of acceleration on the driver
at the top and bottom of it's stroke. So then you have to re-design
your cone to handle the stress. It's the loudspeaker equivalent of
buying a rice burner (e.g. Honda, Toyota) and trying to make it perform
like a Corvette.

There are two ways around this: buy a bigger engine, or use a bunch of
smaller engines. Just like with most other things in life, the less you
"rag on" a subwoofer, the better it will sound and the longer it will
last. But as it happens, buying a small number of larger drivers is
usually more economical than it is to buy a large number of smaller
drivers. [Side note: my shop once built a single-reflex bandpass in cab
of a small extended-cab pickup truck that had 16 pairs of iso-loaded JL
Audio 8W2s in it. The whole system was run by *one* amplifier--a "100
Watt" Precision Power "cheater amp" and the bass produced by that
enclosure had very good LF extension and was also *very* painful to sit
in...I didn't like it at all, but it was pretty impressive.]

Human ear:

To make things more difficult for the bass-o-phile, the human ear was
not designed to be sensitive at low frequencies. God thought that it
was "very good" to give us ears that were sensitive to higher
frequencies (it's no accident that a baby's cry is *right* smack dab in
the middle of our most sensitive region). Sensitivity to higher
frequencies also makes it possible to quickly and accurately pinpoint
the location of noises (possible danger) coming at us.

Check out this plot and note how much more energy has to be applied in
the lower-registers to achieve the same perceived loudness as some of
the higher frequencies:

http://www.extron.com/technology/img...ol_ts_2-lg.jpg

If you want your system to sound "flat", your RTA would ideally would
look like one of those curves. Only problem is that our ears are not
linear w.r.t. SPL...the louder things get, the more those curves
flatten out--so the highs begin to take over again when things get
hecka-loud.

As for "It only
helps boost the SPL.", well hell yeah it does! I've had 10's, 12's,
and 15's in the past. The bigger, the louder, AND the lower.

Not if you put them all in the same-sized box. Remember...it's
positively meaningless to compare drivers outside of their enclosures.
Absolutely meaningless. So don't do it--it sounds silly when you do.

If you're happy at a level of SPL and SQ that 8's can give you, then
that's great! You'll spend a lot less $, and you'll have more room in
your trunk. I personally require more than that.

I dunno, sir, it sounds to me a bit like you've fallen for the old "mo'
bigga, mo' betta'" wive's tale. I'd be interested to know what
well-designed small-driver systems you've actually tried-out for
yourself. I'm not saying you *haven't* actually experimented with
smaller drivers--just curious--because my experience tells me that
typically, it's a matter of prejudice.

When I was a salesman at Speaker Warehouse in Hollywood, FL, I would go
through this all the time with kids who'd come in and "poo-poo" smaller
drivers because they couldn't "quad" hard enough. So, I'd take them out
to my car and ask them to sit and listen for a little bit. I'd then
turn the stereo down and ask them what they thought they were listening
to in terms of driver size, number and amp power. I'd typically get
responses like "500W and a pair of 12-inch subs" or something crazy
like that. Then I'd take them around, open the hatch and show them a
single 10" in a single-reflex bandpass powered by half of a 50x4. There
wasn't one person to whom I showed my car that wasn't floored. [My
manager at another store used the same approach with a pair of JL Audio
8W2's in a single-reflex bandpass powered by a PPI 30x2, and he got
similar responses!!!!] Then we'd go inside and I'd run the numbers for
them "This is how much it costs to do to your car what I have in my
car......now here's what it'd cost to put in your car what you
*thought* I had in my car....."

But the approach didn't really get me *that* many sales. Want to know
why? Because these guys couldn't see themselves pulling up in the
parking lot of their local movie theatre and impressing their buddies
with "only a 10" or "only a pair of 8's" because after all, to them big
sound didn't mean jack unless you had big subwoofers to go along with
it. "Yeah, Dan's got a single 10 that sounds like a pair of 12's, but
Joe has a pair of 12's!!!!". Smaller drivers just wouldn't stroke their
egos hard enough. :-\

-dan

[mfreak]

As for "It only
helps boost the SPL.", well hell yeah it does! I've had 10's, 12's,
and 15's in the past. The bigger, the louder, AND the lower.

Not if you put them all in the same-sized box. Remember...it's
positively meaningless to compare drivers outside of their enclosures.
Absolutely meaningless. So don't do it--it sounds silly when you do.

You're right, and I agree with pretty much everything you said,
including the above statement.. However, people don't put 8's and 12's
in the same size box.. Even most dummies could tell you larger subs go
in larger boxes.

If anyone could get a single 10 to sound like my 2 12's, then I can't
even imagine what that same person could make my 12's sound like! I
guess I needed to qualify that with "given equally optimal enclosures".
Given equally optimal enclosures, the bigger drivers will be louder
and hit lower. I can't possibly be wrong about this?

I'm not saying you *haven't* actually experimented with
smaller drivers--just curious--because my experience tells me that
typically, it's a matter of prejudice.

The smallest sub box I ever personally tried was a single 10. And I
wasn't impressed.. I had a dual 10 box after that, it was ok, better,
but nothing close to what I have now.. I've never seen anyone with a
single 10 OR a dual 10 that compares to what I have. But my experience
is limited, so idk..

When I had the 2 10's, an install shop quoted me something like $250 to
build a custom enclosure. Hell, that cost more than the subs
themselves! MAYBE it woulda been worth it, but I didn't beleive it
would be at the time, based on other systems with 10's that I'd heard.

I dont build boxes, I guess I'm afraid I'd waste hours and hours trying
to build the perfect enclosure, then not even be able to notice the
difference. That's assuming I could obtain plans for this perfect
enclosure. I just have a pre-fab ported MTX box that came with 2 12's
I bought like 10 years ago. I've upgraded the subs since then. I know
the dimensions of the box are close to what JL says the recommended
enclosure is, and I know it's the loudest, hardest pounding system I've
ever had.

[D.Kreft]

mfreak wrote:

You're right, and I agree with pretty much everything you said,
including the above statement.. However, people don't put 8's and 12's
in the same size box.. Even most dummies could tell you larger subs go
in larger boxes.

That's also not true. A JL Audio 8W2 (we're talking old-school, here)
worked really well in about 1.75 cubic feet, ported. A JL Audio 12W6
would also work in 1.75 cubic feet, sealed. Granted, the 12W6 wouldn't
be in its optimal box--it prefers an even *smaller* box--1.25, sealed.

If anyone could get a single 10 to sound like my 2 12's, then I can't
even imagine what that same person could make my 12's sound like!

I don't know about *your* 12's, but I've personally listened to JL
Audio subs in SRBP boxes that I or my co-workers have designed that
were just....sick (read: "very loud").

I guess I needed to qualify that with "given equally optimal enclosures".
Given equally optimal enclosures, the bigger drivers will be louder
and hit lower. I can't possibly be wrong about this?

Yes, you could. :-) Because then I could hand you a 10" E/V loudspeaker
(which is actually a professional midrange) and compare it to a 10"
subwoofer, and the subwoofer would play lower, while the E/V would be
"infinitely" louder.

You'd also have to define what "equally optimal" means.

You'd also be wrong because you're not saying louder at what frequency.
A sealed box has a characteristic roll-off of 12dB/octave below F3,
ported boxes 18dB/octave or higher depending upon the alignment.
Everyone says that ported boxes are more "efficient" but if you look
low enough in the frequency response curve of the ported box (below
F3), you'll find that the output is actually *far* less than that of
the sealed box, even though the sealed box is "less efficient."

It'd also be wrong because professional subs (like the kind you see at
concerts) are more efficient than car audio subs, so it's not even fair
there.

See the can of worms you've opened up for yourself when you try to make
generalizations like this? :-)

The smallest sub box I ever personally tried was a single 10. And I
wasn't impressed.. I had a dual 10 box after that, it was ok, better,
but nothing close to what I have now.. I've never seen anyone with a
single 10 OR a dual 10 that compares to what I have. But my experience
is limited, so idk..

You could have saved me a bunch of typing by qualifying this up front.
;-)
When you speak from limited experience, it's usually best for all
concerned to humbly state that up front so people know how to weigh
your comments. No harm has been done, but it's just a good idea in
general to be forthcoming with these little details. :-)

When I had the 2 10's, an install shop quoted me something like $250 to
build a custom enclosure. Hell, that cost more than the subs
themselves! MAYBE it woulda been worth it, but I didn't beleive it
would be at the time, based on other systems with 10's that I'd heard.

I couldn't comment on the enclosure or the price unless I knew what
they planned to build. If it were a bandpass enclosure, then yeah, I
can see $250. If it had a bunch of angles or involved any amount of
fiberglass work, then yeah, I can see that. If it was a simple
plain-Jane ported or sealed box, then I'd want to know what material
they were using to make the box. :-)

I dont build boxes, I guess I'm afraid I'd waste hours and hours trying
to build the perfect enclosure, then not even be able to notice the
difference. That's assuming I could obtain plans for this perfect
enclosure.

Well, you see, that's why some people get paid to do this. If you
already have the drivers, contact your dealer for the optimal box
configuration for you (e.g. "A sealed box of X cu.ft. or a ported box
of X cu.ft. and a port that's Y by Z")...but if you're looking for
maximum SPL (requiring a more efficient enclosure like a SRBP), that's
more involved and requires more work--something the manufacturer will
typically draw-up for you for free (I designed *lots* of bandpass
enclosures for people when I served as a Technical Support Specialist
for JL Audio :-).

I just have a pre-fab ported MTX box that came with 2 12's
I bought like 10 years ago. I've upgraded the subs since then. I know
the dimensions of the box are close to what JL says the recommended
enclosure is, and I know it's the loudest, hardest pounding system I've
ever had.

So now you're comparing different *brands* of speakers in addition to
comparing different sizes? Ouch...that's not comparing apples to
oranges, that's like apples and automobiles. :-)

How close is "close"? And did you make sure the port was acceptable for
use with your JL subs? Sounds to me like you got really lucky here.

-dan

[flak_monkey]

D.Kreft Wrote:
flak_monkey wrote:

The jackhammer is a pile of crap. A really heavy pile of loud,
obnoxious, distortion-making crap.
People who want it are children with little peckers who think that
louder = better sound quality and have never heard a properly tuned
setup, much less ever thought about owning one.

Interesting analysis. Does this come from your first-hand experience
with the driver or from something else?

-dan

Yeah, I saw it at CES. It's for show. I'll take the Parthenon over that
hunk of blingy sh*t any day.


--
flak_monkey