[[email protected]]

We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.

The problem is that the old stereo had an external (non-standard)
connector, while the wires went directly into the stereo. But without
any manual I'm unable to find out which wires correspond to what.

With the new stereo there's a standard connector (which I've gotten
hold of), and on top of it is the connector's pinouts, so all I need to
know now is what wire *from the car* corresponds to the speakers, car
battery etc. What do I do, which wires am I looking for and where do I
start?
(I have a multimeter in case that helps).

[brianlanning]

wrote:
We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.

welcome! it's a disease. Stop now while you still can.

The problem is that the old stereo had an external (non-standard)
connector, while the wires went directly into the stereo. But without
any manual I'm unable to find out which wires correspond to what.

Normally, people head over to a store that carries wiring harnesses for
their car. I'd hate to recommend best buy, but they probably have it.
Head over there or somewhere similar and tell them the year, make, and
model of your car. They should be able to produce the correct harness.
The harness should cost something like $15. The wires are color
coded, there's usuall a piece of paper saying what all the colors are
or it might be on the packaging, and words are often printed right on
the wires.

You're smart for not hacking the car. It's a lot easier to use the
harness. Although if you can't get the right harness, you can just cut
off the connector and wire it in directly. You'll need the multimeter
for this. If you do have to go this route, scour the internet and this
group. I was able to find the color code chart for my 89 toyota camry
that way.

With the new stereo there's a standard connector (which I've gotten
hold of), and on top of it is the connector's pinouts, so all I need to
know now is what wire *from the car* corresponds to the speakers, car
battery etc. What do I do, which wires am I looking for and where do I
start?

Most cars are like this: There are two power wires. One is a twelve
volt line that's switched with the ignition. The other is usually an
illumination wire that may affect the head unit's brightness. Usually,
ground is through the metal chassis which you bolt the radio to. On
the new head unit, you'll have to find a place for the ground wire.
This is probably the hardest part of the installation.

The speaker wires on your head unit are the white, green, purple, and
grey ones. The negative terminals on the speakers have the black
stripe. The harness you get from the store will probably match these
colors. But there are no guarantees. So pay attention to the
documentation. The wire colors in your car could be anything and will
almost certainly not match any wires on the harness or the radio.

Usually, people attach the car-specific wiring harness to the one that
comes with the radio while out of the car. The good way is to solder
and use shrink tubing, but butt connectors work just fine. Make sure
they're tight by pulling on the wires. Zip-tie it all together, then
plug everything in.

The head unit will have an extra wire to turn on a remote amp. Just
cap it off. There will also be an extra wire from the head unit that
controls the power antenae if you have one. This will most likely
connect through the harness, but if you don't have one, just cap it
off.

(I have a multimeter in case that helps).

it does, especially when something goes wrong.

Once you get the head unit in, you'll want to replace the speakers.
Those two things together will make a big difference.

Then you'll want an outboard powered sub. That will make a big
difference also.

Then you have to go full blast and drive everything with external amps.
:-)

brian

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.

The problem is that the old stereo had an external (non-standard)
connector, while the wires went directly into the stereo. But without
any manual I'm unable to find out which wires correspond to what.

With the new stereo there's a standard connector (which I've gotten
hold of), and on top of it is the connector's pinouts, so all I need to
know now is what wire *from the car* corresponds to the speakers, car
battery etc. What do I do, which wires am I looking for and where do I
start?
(I have a multimeter in case that helps).

Well, knowing what kind of car it is MAY allow us to tell you what wires are
which based on color codes - some use color coding that's relatively
standardized *to that make of car* (for example, most Hondas have used the same
colors for many years).

There are also aftermarket harnesses that are designed to plug into many cars'
factory connectors and give you the "standardized" color-coded wires to connect
to (I put "standardized" in quotes, as it's not really a written-in-stone
standard, just an ad-hoc one that MOST stereo manufacturers adhere to - for
example, red for switched power, yellow for constant, white for left-front
speakers, etc.) but if your car's deck is hard-wired into the harness with no
connector, that won't be much help.

So... first thing to do with your multimeter is find the power feed(s).
Normally there should be two: one that provides constant power with the key off,
and one that provides power only when the key is on (usually in the ACCessory
position). Connect one lead of your multimeter to a good body ground (the
shield of the antenna connector will often suffice for this) and probe all the
other wires until you find +12V with the key off - that's your constant power,
that should connect to the yellow wire on the new deck. Turn the key to the IGN
position (just in case the radio only powers up at that point instead of ACC)
and check all the remaining wires for +12V - that will show you the switched
power for what should be the red lead on the deck.

The ground wire should normally be black (not always, though), but you can test
for one by setting your multimeter to the "continuity" setting (so it beeps when
you touch the leads together), and with one lead connected to the body ground,
test the remaining (non-power!) wires until you get the continuity beep. That
SHOULD be your ground wire, that connects to the deck's black wire. If you
can't find one, you can connect the black wire to a good solid metal ground
point inside the dash (don't rely on the antenna shield for a good operational
ground).

If you want, also try turning on the marker lights to full brightness, and test
the remaining wires for voltage (may or may not be a full 12V) - you probably
won't use the dimmer feed, if there is one, but it's good to rule it out for
speaker testing.

The most direct way to find the speaker wires is to remove each speaker, and
check the color of the wires connected to it, then locate those wires in the
dash. This will work for most Japanese cars, as well as newer North American
cars, but some older NA and European cars have a habit of not retaining
consistant color codes... and some cars' speakers are not as easy to access or
remove as others, so depending on the car, this may not be an option anyway.

The quick and easy way to check for speaker connections is to "pop" them with a
battery - a 9V battery will work well for this (make sure the key is turned off
now as well, in case there's another live wire). Look first for any wires that
are "paired" together, possibly by color code, and touch each pair of wires to
the battery terminals: the associated speaker should produce a small "popping"
sound. If there aren't any pairs, pick one wire, hold it on one battery
terminal, then one by one, touch the other wires to the other terminal until you
hear the pop... what I'll usually do then is twist those two together to keep
them separated from the others, and continue checking the rest with the same
procedure.

Once you've located all the speaker runs, you also need to check the polarity of
the speakers - it's important that they all be wired to the same "phase", so
they move properly in relation to each other, or the sound will be really
strange. If necessary, have a friend help who can observe the speaker cones
closely while you pop them again - when you pop one, if the cone moves outward,
mark the wire that's on the "+" terminal of the battery as the "+" lead for the
speaker; if the cone moves inward, the wire touching the "+" terminal will that
speaker's "-" lead. You can do this at the same time you're locating them if
you like, by the way, I just separated the steps to minimize confusion.

That should pretty much do it for most cars. A few things to watch out for are
cars with built-in amps or amps attached to the speakers - the speakers won't
pop properly with this test and may not work with your deck without rewiring the
speakers - as well as those with a power antenna - you'll need to find that
lead and connect the deck's blue or blue/white wire to activate it. Also beware
of older cars whose speakers use a common body ground - wiring into that setup
will blow up most newer decks with floating outputs. Check a few speaker leads
for continuity to ground if you have any concerns about this, or pull a speaker
out an ensure neither of its terminals are connected to the car body.

Again, knowing the make, model and year of your car would help us give more
specific information, and the make and model of your new deck may be useful as
well...

[[email protected]]

Matt Ion wrote:
wrote:
We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.

Well, knowing what kind of car it is MAY allow us to tell you what wires are
which based on color codes

Looks of good advice here from you and Brian. Thanks!
I'm going to print it out and see what I can find out. I'm also trying
to contact the producer of the old stereo that has been used up to now
(Fujitsu Ten CE-4850EX 1) as that would help immensly (there wires go
straight into the unit; there's no connector on the back of it as with
the newer Denon I'm replacing it with).

But getting back to your and Brian's question: the car is a Hyundai
Pony. I can't remember from which year, but I can check if it makes a
difference.

[Captain Howdy]

I had some of those and it's safe to say that it an 84-87. They don't make
sports cars like that anymore. I highly doubt that you'll even find a harness
for it or any info on the car outside of Canada.



In article .com,
" wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:
wrote:
We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.

Well, knowing what kind of car it is MAY allow us to tell you what wires are
which based on color codes

Looks of good advice here from you and Brian. Thanks!
I'm going to print it out and see what I can find out. I'm also trying
to contact the producer of the old stereo that has been used up to now
(Fujitsu Ten CE-4850EX 1) as that would help immensly (there wires go
straight into the unit; there's no connector on the back of it as with
the newer Denon I'm replacing it with).

But getting back to your and Brian's question: the car is a Hyundai
Pony. I can't remember from which year, but I can check if it makes a
difference.

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:

wrote:

We've gotten hold of a car stereo to replace the worn out one that was
in the car, but since I've never installed a car stereo I don't really
know where to start.


Well, knowing what kind of car it is MAY allow us to tell you what wires are
which based on color codes


Looks of good advice here from you and Brian. Thanks!
I'm going to print it out and see what I can find out. I'm also trying
to contact the producer of the old stereo that has been used up to now
(Fujitsu Ten CE-4850EX 1) as that would help immensly (there wires go
straight into the unit; there's no connector on the back of it as with
the newer Denon I'm replacing it with).

But getting back to your and Brian's question: the car is a Hyundai
Pony. I can't remember from which year, but I can check if it makes a
difference.

Yowtch. The Pony wasn't on the market very long, as I recall... MAYBE two
generations. If the wires are all connected directly into the deck, it's
probably a first-gen car, and is probably worth less than the deck you're
putting in it

Actually, if memory serves, there's also a fair chance it DOES have
common-ground speakers, or at least has the speakers sharing a common ground
wire, which will not work with most newer decks. Either way, the stock speakers
will probably sound terrible with the new deck - you may want to simply replace
them with some new, cheap speakers, which will come with their own wires as well.

If nobody else beats me to it, I'll look up more specifics in the morning...

[[email protected]]

Captain Howdy wrote:
I had some of those and it's safe to say that it an 84-87. They don't make
sports cars like that anymore. I highly doubt that you'll even find a harness
for it or any info on the car outside of Canada.

Makes sense, because I'm in Europe ;-)
I did a little further checking and it's a 1993 Hyundai Pony.

I've had a closer look at the old Fujitsu Ten head unit (the one that
I'm throwing out), and it is labelled and has a couple of smaller
connectors coming out of it, but in addition, one or two additional
connectors (for the car) have been attached. Looks like a mess, but
with my multimeter I should be able to figure it out... I think ;-)

I'll get back to you guys once I've given it a go.

[Captain_Howdy]

I Canada the Hyundai Pony that looked like this
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/311603

In 1988 is was replaced by the Hyundai Excel that looked like this
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/573655



Makes sense, because I'm in Europe ;-)
I did a little further checking and it's a 1993 Hyundai Pony.

I've had a closer look at the old Fujitsu Ten head unit (the one that
I'm throwing out), and it is labelled and has a couple of smaller
connectors coming out of it, but in addition, one or two additional
connectors (for the car) have been attached. Looks like a mess, but
with my multimeter I should be able to figure it out... I think ;-)

I'll get back to you guys once I've given it a go.

[[email protected]]

Captain_Howdy wrote:
In 1988 is was replaced by the Hyundai Excel that looked like this
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/573655

Yup, that's the one!
I googled a bit for "Hyundai Excel" and have now learnt that in Europe
(where I am) it was named Pony, so my 1993 Pony is probably the same as
a USA Excel.

[[email protected]]

Matt Ion wrote:
wrote:

Actually, if memory serves, there's also a fair chance it DOES have
common-ground speakers, or at least has the speakers sharing a common ground
wire, which will not work with most newer decks. Either way, the stock speakers
will probably sound terrible with the new deck - you may want to simply replace
them with some new, cheap speakers, which will come with their own wires as well.

Luck has it that the seller of the Denon car stereo (DCR-470R) also
included a set of speakers which he said sounded pretty nice, so I'll
see if I can try that out once I've connected the stereo.

I had a look at the old stereo (Fujitsu Ten CE-4850EX I) and did find a
connection diagram, so I'm in luck! So from now on it'll just be a
matter of tracing the wires back to the connection block, then
replacing it with the new connectors that will go to the new Denon
stereo.

The old Fujitsu Ten car stereo does indeed have a + and - output going
to each speaker, but I haven't had a chance to check out the actual
speakers in the car to see if they're commonly grounded or not.
Hopefully it won't be too much work to attach new wires if they are.

The old stereo has the following connection pins:

- Power supply
- Auto ant.
- Back up
- Speaker left +
- Speaker left -
- Speaker right +
- Speaker right -

As for - I can see that's connected directly to the chassis of the
unit.
"Power supply" means +12V to the battery, right?
So what's "auto ant." (powered raising/lowering of the antenna?) and
"back up" for?

Now, the new Denon car stereo which I'm going to install. It has two
big connectors (side by side) on the back of the unit, and the pinout
shown on top of the unit tells me the following pinout signals:

- GND
- ACC
- Battery
- Remote/P. ant.
- Front speaker left +
- Front speaker left -
- Front speaker right +
- Front speaker right -
- Rear speaker left +
- Rear speaker left -
- Rear speaker right +
- Rear speaker right -

So how do I adapt the connection for the old stereo to the new one?

1) I only have one set of speakers. Does it matter if I use the rear or
front set of outputs?

2) Obviously GND is the same as the chassis connection of the old
stereo (-12V), right?

3) What does ACC correspond to on the old stereo?

4) I assume "Battery" is the same as +12V?

5) "Remote/p.ant" -again, I assume this is for cars with motorized
antennas (raising and lowering), which my ageing car doesn't. But what
does the shared "remote" function do? Does it have something to do with
the CD-changer option?

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:

wrote:


Actually, if memory serves, there's also a fair chance it DOES have
common-ground speakers, or at least has the speakers sharing a common ground
wire, which will not work with most newer decks. Either way, the stock speakers
will probably sound terrible with the new deck - you may want to simply replace
them with some new, cheap speakers, which will come with their own wires as well.


Luck has it that the seller of the Denon car stereo (DCR-470R) also
included a set of speakers which he said sounded pretty nice, so I'll
see if I can try that out once I've connected the stereo.

Good stuff...

I had a look at the old stereo (Fujitsu Ten CE-4850EX I) and did find a
connection diagram, so I'm in luck! So from now on it'll just be a
matter of tracing the wires back to the connection block, then
replacing it with the new connectors that will go to the new Denon
stereo.

"Connection block"? If you mean the main fuse block or a central connector, I
wouldn't bother taking it that far, as you won't be able to tap into it directly
- you'll have to splice into the factory wires at some point, and doing it
inside the deck cutout is probably easier than doing it anywhere else anyway.

Of course, I speak from experience with Canadian cars, but I doubt a Euro
version is THAT different.

The old Fujitsu Ten car stereo does indeed have a + and - output going
to each speaker, but I haven't had a chance to check out the actual
speakers in the car to see if they're commonly grounded or not.
Hopefully it won't be too much work to attach new wires if they are.

Okay, I'd expect they're not then (seems to me Hyundai had "overcome" those
ancient designs by the time the Excel came out here). A quick test would be to
connect the right+ to a battery, and then try to "pop" with the left- ... it
shouldn't make any sound.

The old stereo has the following connection pins:

- Power supply
- Auto ant.
- Back up
- Speaker left +
- Speaker left -
- Speaker right +
- Speaker right -

As for - I can see that's connected directly to the chassis of the
unit.
"Power supply" means +12V to the battery, right?

Nope, I believe that would be your ACC feed, to be connected to the new deck's
red wire. "Back up" would be your constant battery power, to connect to the
deck's yellow wire.

So what's "auto ant." (powered raising/lowering of the antenna?) and
"back up" for?

Yes, "Auto ant" would be for a power antenna. If your car has one, connect the
deck's blue lead; if not, don't worry about it.

Now, the new Denon car stereo which I'm going to install. It has two
big connectors (side by side) on the back of the unit, and the pinout
shown on top of the unit tells me the following pinout signals:

- GND
- ACC
- Battery
- Remote/P. ant.
- Front speaker left +
- Front speaker left -
- Front speaker right +
- Front speaker right -
- Rear speaker left +
- Rear speaker left -
- Rear speaker right +
- Rear speaker right -

So how do I adapt the connection for the old stereo to the new one?

Sounds like you'll have to splice the wires on the deck's connector directly to
the car's wires. Again, doing this inside the dash cutout should be the easiest
and most convenient. For a "proper" setup you'd want to solder and heat-shrink
the connections, but in your case, crimp connectors will do just fine. Whatever
you do, DON'T just twist the wires together and wrap them with tape - it's
messy, cheesy, and the tape can come off over time and leave the wires gooey.
Don't use marrettes (wire nuts) either - they get rattled around a lot and can
also fall off.

1) I only have one set of speakers. Does it matter if I use the rear or
front set of outputs?

Should make no difference at all.

2) Obviously GND is the same as the chassis connection of the old
stereo (-12V), right?

Correct.

3) What does ACC correspond to on the old stereo?

"Power supply" would be my guess. Use your multimeter to check: your ACC wire
on your new deck connects to the wire that has power with the key on.

4) I assume "Battery" is the same as +12V?

That's for the constant power, the wire that's powered even with the key off
(again, double-check with your multimeter). That maintains your radio station
memory settings.

5) "Remote/p.ant" -again, I assume this is for cars with motorized
antennas (raising and lowering), which my ageing car doesn't. But what
does the shared "remote" function do? Does it have something to do with
the CD-changer option?

Nope, that would be for remote amp turn-on. Basically, the wire is powered by
the deck, only when the deck is on; it doesn't actually provide power to the
antenna or amp, it only provides a signal that "triggers" them to turn on.

You won't need it at all, unless you add an amp later, so make sure the end of
the wire is capped off so it doesn't short out against the body inside the dash.

[brianlanning]

wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:
The old Fujitsu Ten car stereo does indeed have a + and - output going
to each speaker, but I haven't had a chance to check out the actual
speakers in the car to see if they're commonly grounded or not.
Hopefully it won't be too much work to attach new wires if they are.

It shouldn'e be bad at all. Just straighten out a wire coat hanger and
fish it through the dash to the speaker location. Then tape on the new
wire and pull it through. The speakers have spade connectors on them
usually. You can get spade connectors that crimp on just like the butt
connectors.

The old stereo has the following connection pins:

- Power supply
- Auto ant.
- Back up
- Speaker left +
- Speaker left -
- Speaker right +
- Speaker right -

You'll want to put back speakers in. It will make quite a difference.


As for - I can see that's connected directly to the chassis of the
unit.
"Power supply" means +12V to the battery, right?

Sounds right to me, the switched wire.

So what's "auto ant." (powered raising/lowering of the antenna?)

Yes.

and
"back up" for?

My guess is like a battery backup type wire? Maybe the clock needs a
continuous power supply to remember the time? If so, this would be the
unswitched power wire.

You should be able to verify all this with the multimeter.

Now, the new Denon car stereo which I'm going to install. It has two
big connectors (side by side) on the back of the unit, and the pinout
shown on top of the unit tells me the following pinout signals:

- GND
- ACC

accessory, probably for remote amps.

- Battery
- Remote/P. ant.

or maybe this is for the remote amp *and* the power antenae?

- Front speaker left +
- Front speaker left -
- Front speaker right +
- Front speaker right -
- Rear speaker left +
- Rear speaker left -
- Rear speaker right +
- Rear speaker right -

So how do I adapt the connection for the old stereo to the new one?

I'm not sure what you mean. Fine the wire that turns on and off with
the ignition and use this for (I think) the yellow wire on the denon.
The red wire iirc should be the one for illumination. You may need to
twist them together. The ground wire on the denon needs to go to a
metal bolt somewhere in the dash. If you're having problems finding
one, it is possible to run another ground wire out to the battery. But
that's a pain.

Then hook up all the speakers. You can attach them one at a time.
Turn on the denon and set the balance all the way to one side and the
fader all the way to the front. Then hook up a speaker. It will be
obvious if you get the wrong speaker this way. Then adjust the balance
to the other side and do the other one.

1) I only have one set of speakers. Does it matter if I use the rear or
front set of outputs?

It doesn't matter, but use the front ones. This way if you add rear
speakers, the fader controls will work the way you expect them to.


2) Obviously GND is the same as the chassis connection of the old
stereo (-12V), right?

-12v? It's the chassis ground. Make sure it's tight. You might want
to sand or scrape the metal under the bolt, especially if it's painted.

3) What does ACC correspond to on the old stereo?

accessory. Is this the switched one guys? I can't keep them straight.

4) I assume "Battery" is the same as +12V?

This is the other power wire.

Use the multimeter to determine which wire is switched with the
ignition.

5) "Remote/p.ant" -again, I assume this is for cars with motorized
antennas (raising and lowering), which my ageing car doesn't. But what
does the shared "remote" function do? Does it have something to do with
the CD-changer option?

Usually cd changers are powered through a proprietary wire that also
has the audio signal from the changer. Outboard amplifiers on the
other hand are switched on by a relay driven from a remote turn on wire
coming from the head unit. This is what it's for. Usually, most
modern head units have separate wires to turn on amps and power
antennaes. This way it can retract the antenna when you're playing a
CD for example, but you obviously still need the amps to be on. This
is how my alpine works. If you have a common wire like this one, the
antenna is up whenever the power is on regardless of what source you're
listening to.

You don't need it since you don't have a power antenna or a remote
amplifier. You may want it later though. :-)

brian

[Matt Ion]

brianlanning wrote:

You'll want to put back speakers in. It will make quite a difference.

Heheh, there may not be anywhere to PUT back speakers in that car

- ACC


accessory, probably for remote amps.

Nope... power from the ACCESSORY position on the car's ignition switch.

- Remote/P. ant.

or maybe this is for the remote amp *and* the power antenae?

These are usually interchangeable... all it does is provide an output 12V signal
from the deck to trigger whatever external device you want. The only time
they're really "different" functions is with the few decks that power off and
retract the antenna when the deck isn't actually on the radio feature.

So how do I adapt the connection for the old stereo to the new one?


I'm not sure what you mean. Fine the wire that turns on and off with
the ignition and use this for (I think) the yellow wire on the denon.
The red wire iirc should be the one for illumination.

The Denon deck doesn't have an illumination wire, according to what the OP
posted. The "standard" wire colors a

Yellow - constant +12V
Red - switched (ACC) +12V
Blue or blue/white - remote turn-on output
Black - ground

In my experience, if there is an illumination/dimmer wire, it's usually orange.

The Denon may not match these color codes, but the OP listed the pinout as
printed on the deck's label anyway.

[[email protected]]

Matt Ion wrote:
brianlanning wrote:

You'll want to put back speakers in. It will make quite a difference.

Heheh, there may not be anywhere to PUT back speakers in that car

Too true ;-)
But since I received new speakers along with the stereo I could replace
the existing ones. Anyone know how to get access to the speakers in
that car? I see now screws. Needless to say I don't have much
experience with cars ;-)


The Denon deck doesn't have an illumination wire, according to what the OP
posted. The "standard" wire colors a

Yellow - constant +12V
Red - switched (ACC) +12V
Blue or blue/white - remote turn-on output
Black - ground

These are the wire colors on the 3rd party plug which fits the Denon.
What happens if I exchange the constant and switched +12V wires? Will I
fry something?

[brianlanning]

wrote:
Too true ;-)
But since I received new speakers along with the stereo I could replace
the existing ones. Anyone know how to get access to the speakers in
that car? I see now screws. Needless to say I don't have much
experience with cars ;-)

They may just pop out.


These are the wire colors on the 3rd party plug which fits the Denon.
What happens if I exchange the constant and switched +12V wires? Will I
fry something?

If they're both +12v you won't fry anything. You may be able to turn
on the radio without having the key in the ignition though. :-)

brian

[Matt Ion]

wrote:

You'll want to put back speakers in. It will make quite a difference.

Heheh, there may not be anywhere to PUT back speakers in that car


Too true ;-)
But since I received new speakers along with the stereo I could replace
the existing ones. Anyone know how to get access to the speakers in
that car? I see now screws. Needless to say I don't have much
experience with cars ;-)

They probably have little snap-in buttons on the back that hold them to the
door. Remove what screws there are, then carefully pop the buttons loose from
the door one by one (you can often do this by just pulling the panel out, but
it'll sometimes rip the slots where they go in the door - a panel popper tool is
definitely recommended).

The Denon deck doesn't have an illumination wire, according to what the OP
posted. The "standard" wire colors a

Yellow - constant +12V
Red - switched (ACC) +12V
Blue or blue/white - remote turn-on output
Black - ground


These are the wire colors on the 3rd party plug which fits the Denon.
What happens if I exchange the constant and switched +12V wires? Will I
fry something?

Nope, but like brian said, the deck may not turn on and off with the key... and
you'll likely lose any radio stations you program when the key is turned off.

[brianlanning]

Matt Ion wrote:
Nope, but like brian said, the deck may not turn on and off with the key... and
you'll likely lose any radio stations you program when the key is turned off.

The first stereo I ever put in (when dinosaurs roamed the earth, lol) I
did exactly this. I didn't have a multimeter and I hacked the wiring
harness. I ended up finding the always on wire so I twisted the two
power wires together an attached it to this one (twisted with
electrical tape of course). It never lost the radio stations and I
could turn on the radio with the key in the ignition. It didn't hurt
anything. I did always have to turn off the radio after taking the key
out though. :-)

brian

[[email protected]]

It works! It works!!
At first it didn't, then I realized that there's supposed to be a 10A
fuse right next to the power/audio connectors on the Denon. I didn't
have any fuses, so I (oops!! I know I shouldn't..) connected a small
wire to short it, just so I could test it, and it powered up and worked
fine!
Thanks guys!

I'm going to get hold of that fuse, then move on to see about those
speakers -if I can remove the ones that are there and replace them with
the newer, better ones, then finally look into that special CD-changer
connector to see if I can connect the ipod directly to it.

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
It works! It works!!

Excellent!

At first it didn't, then I realized that there's supposed to be a 10A
fuse right next to the power/audio connectors on the Denon. I didn't
have any fuses, so I (oops!! I know I shouldn't..) connected a small
wire to short it, just so I could test it, and it powered up and worked
fine!
Thanks guys!

You're welcome

I'm going to get hold of that fuse, then move on to see about those
speakers -if I can remove the ones that are there and replace them with
the newer, better ones,

Let us know how that goes...

then finally look into that special CD-changer
connector to see if I can connect the ipod directly to it.

If you can get ahold of the plug off the actually CD changer, or a dead changer
that you can cut the plug from, you MAY find that the wires in that cable are
color-coded already and it'll be easy to splice in a 3.5mm stereo plug to plug
into your iPod's headphone jack.

But that's a pretty big MAYBE.

You could also try contacting Denon...

[[email protected]]

Matt Ion wrote:
wrote:

then finally look into that special CD-changer
connector to see if I can connect the ipod directly to it.

If you can get ahold of the plug off the actually CD changer, or a dead changer
that you can cut the plug from, you MAY find that the wires in that cable are
color-coded already and it'll be easy to splice in a 3.5mm stereo plug to plug
into your iPod's headphone jack.

At first glance it looks like an S-video connector, but I haven't
really checked properly. If it's a proprietary plug I might have to do
what you suggest.

I've already contacted a Denon dealer and awaiting a reply, so we'll
see how that goes.
I'll get back here if I manage to get it to work -perhaps others might
be interested in doing the same.

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:

wrote:


then finally look into that special CD-changer
connector to see if I can connect the ipod directly to it.

If you can get ahold of the plug off the actually CD changer, or a dead changer
that you can cut the plug from, you MAY find that the wires in that cable are
color-coded already and it'll be easy to splice in a 3.5mm stereo plug to plug
into your iPod's headphone jack.


At first glance it looks like an S-video connector, but I haven't
really checked properly. If it's a proprietary plug I might have to do
what you suggest.

I doubt it's proprietary pin layout - that would require custom manufacturing at
excessive cost. They probably do use a standard mini-DIN connector, although
whether it's a four-pin S-video style or something with a higher pin count is
another matter. There's a set of good pictures here of the different standard
configurations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector - S-video is the
four-pin layout second from the left)

Actually, looking at the photo on the eBay link BigBob provided, it's listed as
a 13-pin connector and looks like a full-size DIN plug...

I've already contacted a Denon dealer and awaiting a reply, so we'll
see how that goes.

That's probably your best bet... you could also check their website for
technical-support info, as those would be the people most likely to actually
have the info you need.

I'll get back here if I manage to get it to work -perhaps others might
be interested in doing the same.

Keep us posted!

[[email protected]]

Matt Ion wrote:
wrote:

Actually, looking at the photo on the eBay link BigBob provided, it's listed as
a 13-pin connector and looks like a full-size DIN plug...

Yeah, I read that as well, but having just had a look at my own Denon
it certainly isn't a 13 pin connector. I count 8 pins. Here's a couple
of photos I've taken: http://www.esnips.com/web/no-spam2-files

It *could* be a mini-DIN as you're suggesting. I'll have to look around
to verify this.

I've already contacted a Denon dealer and awaiting a reply, so we'll
see how that goes.

That's probably your best bet... you could also check their website for
technical-support info, as those would be the people most likely to actually
have the info you need.

Tried that, but there's just about nothing available regarding car
audio. The only thing that I thought could help was the Japanese site's
user-manual download page (http://denon.jp/ownersmanual/index.html) I
didn't find my DCR-470R there, but tried looking through some other car
audio manuals. Doesn't look like they want to give that information
away, at least not in their manuals.
I'm still awaiting a reply from a Denon dealer.

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:

wrote:


Actually, looking at the photo on the eBay link BigBob provided, it's listed as
a 13-pin connector and looks like a full-size DIN plug...


Yeah, I read that as well, but having just had a look at my own Denon
it certainly isn't a 13 pin connector. I count 8 pins. Here's a couple
of photos I've taken: http://www.esnips.com/web/no-spam2-files

It *could* be a mini-DIN as you're suggesting. I'll have to look around
to verify this.

Okay, that's definitely a mini-DIN; that matches the right-most picture in the
Wikipedia link. Obviously the changer BigBob linked to is not one that's
compatible with your deck.

Given that, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it has separate pins for analog
audio - there are more than enough there for audio and control signals.

[brianlanning]

Matt Ion wrote:
Given that, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it has separate pins for analog
audio - there are more than enough there for audio and control signals.

If he's lucky, all he has to do is tie one of the wires to +12v or
ground and the head unit should think there's a changer there. If he's
unlucky, there will be some sort of binary conversation going on
between the deck and the changer. Normally, the changer doesn't just
start playing though. You may have to send it a command to get the
audio channel to open. On the other hand, it may always be open.

If you had a changer to hack, this would be a lot easier.

brian

[[email protected]]

brianlanning wrote:
Matt Ion wrote:
Given that, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it has separate pins for analog
audio - there are more than enough there for audio and control signals.

If he's lucky, all he has to do is tie one of the wires to +12v or
ground and the head unit should think there's a changer there.

Yeah, hacking an external input would be great as I just tried the head
out with that cassette adapter of mine. It worked just fine, but....
the tape deck makes an awful lot of noise in one of the directions (it
has to be the direction the cassette adapter plays!! It only plays in
one direction). I tried playing an ordinary audio cassette as well and
yes, the tape deck makes relatively loud and annoying mechanical noise
when one side of the tape is played while the other side is fine. I
guess it's just the way the Denon deck is designed or something.

An external audio input would do away with all that mechanic stuff.

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
brianlanning wrote:

Matt Ion wrote:

Given that, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it has separate pins for analog
audio - there are more than enough there for audio and control signals.

If he's lucky, all he has to do is tie one of the wires to +12v or
ground and the head unit should think there's a changer there.


Yeah, hacking an external input would be great as I just tried the head
out with that cassette adapter of mine. It worked just fine, but....
the tape deck makes an awful lot of noise in one of the directions (it
has to be the direction the cassette adapter plays!! It only plays in
one direction). I tried playing an ordinary audio cassette as well and
yes, the tape deck makes relatively loud and annoying mechanical noise
when one side of the tape is played while the other side is fine. I
guess it's just the way the Denon deck is designed or something.

An external audio input would do away with all that mechanic stuff.

You could always try an FM modulator. They're not as good as line-in, but
definitely better than a cassette adapter.