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#121
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Directed Amplifiers
Maybe Audiobahn is a little better then you think, i don't know I have
never used any of their gear. No one is foced to bid on amps that they don't want on Ebay. If Audiobahn is the biggest seller on Ebay, then their is a reason for it. What is your point? My point is that ebay sales are not a valid measure of an amp's quality. |
#122
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Directed Amplifiers
Care to explain how you came up with that number? Parts and engineering,
after all PPI was made by Orion ex-employees So then why are USAcoustics amps nothing like ESX amps? |
#123
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Directed Amplifiers
Because there was no cloning done? In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: Care to explain how you came up with that number? Parts and engineering, after all PPI was made by Orion ex-employees So then why are USAcoustics amps nothing like ESX amps? |
#124
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Directed Amplifiers
I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is
cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. Example, last week I seen a non-working Orion 500GS sell for over $300, that's about the same price of a brand new 500watt Orion on Ebay. Here is another one, a used Mcintosh MC 431M at $550 (auction is still open), you wont see a used 400 watt Kenwood sell for that price. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: Maybe Audiobahn is a little better then you think, i don't know I have never used any of their gear. No one is foced to bid on amps that they don't want on Ebay. If Audiobahn is the biggest seller on Ebay, then their is a reason for it. What is your point? My point is that ebay sales are not a valid measure of an amp's quality. |
#125
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Directed Amplifiers
Because there was no cloning done?
Well, if it's all about parts and the engineering team as you suggest, then those two amps should be identical, right? |
#126
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Directed Amplifiers
I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it
is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. Ditto for Infinity speakers versus, say, Macrom. Are you then going to make the claim that Kenwood and Infinity make better equipment than ESX and Macrom? Example, last week I seen a non-working Orion 500GS sell for over $300, Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. that's about the same price of a brand new 500watt Orion on Ebay. Here is another one, a used Mcintosh MC 431M at $550 (auction is still open), you wont see a used 400 watt Kenwood sell for that price. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... |
#127
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Directed Amplifiers
You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? |
#128
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Directed Amplifiers
You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh,
Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. You're obviously having trouble understanding the entire point I'm trying to make. I'll assume that I haven't been clear enough then. Let's recap. Your assertion is that the price of an amp on ebay tells us how good an amp is. I disagree with that. I provided several examples (of both amps and speakers) that DON'T follow that trend. Although name recognition and stereotypes do in fact play a major role in the price (but have very little to do with the question at hand - quality), reputation and specs also play an important role. That would explain why McIntosh amps tend to go for more than Kenwood amps. But sometimes it's totally screwy. When you've got Alpine amps going for as much as the equivalent Helix amps, then you know that popularity/recognition is also contributing to the price. All in all, you can't say that an amplifier or speaker is as good as the price tag on it! |
#129
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Directed Amplifiers
*sigh* ... PPI (the company) was STARTED by a group of people that had a
previous relationship with Orion. So what? Orion was strongly influenced by the original Fosgate (pre-Rockford) amp designs too, does that make ANYTHING else you've written about this stuff true? No, it doesn't... just let it go, wouldya? Look, if you were to say something like: the a/d/s/ EQ300 was the exact same unit electrically as the Orion DEQ30, or that Orion speaker systems used a/d/s/ tooled parts once upon a time, or even that ADST once shipped a/d/s/ powered subs with Orion woofers in them, I wouldn't be wasting my time debating with you. Those things are all true... but what you've stated about Orion and PPI amps being clones or closely related at the point in time you referenced is a load of crap. At least two people that are in a position to know better, one of whom has zero vested interest currently in any of the brands in question, have told you so. Why are you still talking? JD Captain Howdy wrote: Care to explain how you came up with that number? Parts and engineering, after all PPI was made by Orion ex-employees In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I guess that you missed gold's post. I've been reparing Orion PPI and A/D/S/ amplifiers for over 10 years as a hobby. It is not a conicidence that these amplifiers are almost exactly designed the same from a circuitry standpoint. From a circuitry standpoint? You mean a parts standpoint I think. So that takes care of about 2% of the process. What about the other 98%? |
#130
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Directed Amplifiers
Sounds like you should be bitching at Directed Canada, not me. They are
an independent firm that distributes and markets our products in Canada - and a really great bunch of guys too. However, I have nothing to do with the way they market our security products in Canada so barking at me about it is truly a waste of time. I will say however that if your local dealers want to walk away from doing business with the largest, most successful vehicle security company in the world in favor of buying Canadian-produced product that doesn't have an import tariff - nice free trade policy there, by the way - there's little I can do about it and good luck to them. The support program is not ours either, so be more careful when you say things like "DEI warranty support sucks" - you're slandering the wrong company. DEI is an abbreviation of Directed Electronics, Inc. - once again, that's us, not the company you're talking about. On the rest of the Orion/PPI stuff, give it up - you're wrong, and making a fool of yourself arguing the point with John and me, not to mention Paul and others that don't work for any of the companies in question but that are far more expert on the product than you. Trying to use a guy that said otherwise but was proven wrong in half his comments almost immediately - with supporting evidence int he form of parts data sheets mind you - is just about as stupid as engaging John and me on the subject in the first place. He's clearly either worked for one or more of these companies back in the day, and I am currently the product manager for all the brands in question. You really think you have some inside scoop on this stuff that we don't? Please... Let me repeat: PPI gear is not cloned, never has been cloned, and as long as I have anything to say about it - and I do, that's my job currently - never will be. Same comments can be taken as gospel for Orion and a/d/s/, not to mention Directed Audio. JD Captain Howdy wrote: Care to point out just how much of it was wrong, you're not really telling me much. I thought you made it clear in your posts that you don't know jack about their products of the yesteryears. I'm not saying that PPI gear is bad, well other then their new junk compared to their old gear. PPI gear is cloned in more ways then one, but that has been pointed out already in the above posts. That's my opinion along with DEI alarms being overpriced in features and in quality,comparing the my 300+ Viper to my $100 Audiovox alarm and I'm sticking to my opinion. Checkout Ebay and you'll see what people are paying for old Orion and PPI amps compared to the new ones. That should make things clear enough for you. Oh, and DEI warranty support sucks ass in Canada, in Ontario to be exact, replacement parts are hard to get, and your products have too high of a markup (not sure what that means). These are some of the reasons I was given when I asked two local dealers why they dropped DEI and related products such as Orion and PPI from their lineup. Sounds like poor marketing in this area, What do you think JD? In article , John Durbin wrote: Yeah, but much of that was wrong... you need to pick better role models grasshopper. JD |
#131
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Directed Amplifiers
clearly, you are not familar with the concept of "there's an ass for
every seat" it's what makes Ebay so successful, but your argument about those auctions somehow being relevant to your argument about cloning has holes in it big enough to drive a bus through, JD Captain Howdy wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. Example, last week I seen a non-working Orion 500GS sell for over $300, that's about the same price of a brand new 500watt Orion on Ebay. Here is another one, a used Mcintosh MC 431M at $550 (auction is still open), you wont see a used 400 watt Kenwood sell for that price. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: Maybe Audiobahn is a little better then you think, i don't know I have never used any of their gear. No one is foced to bid on amps that they don't want on Ebay. If Audiobahn is the biggest seller on Ebay, then their is a reason for it. What is your point? My point is that ebay sales are not a valid measure of an amp's quality. |
#132
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Directed Amplifiers
who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine?
I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD tired of your noise floor around here Captain Howdy wrote: You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? |
#133
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Directed Amplifiers
Mark, you could have stopped with the first 5 words:
"You're obviously having trouble understanding" JD chump should have that as a epitaph Mark Zarella wrote: You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. You're obviously having trouble understanding the entire point I'm trying to make. I'll assume that I haven't been clear enough then. Let's recap. Your assertion is that the price of an amp on ebay tells us how good an amp is. I disagree with that. I provided several examples (of both amps and speakers) that DON'T follow that trend. Although name recognition and stereotypes do in fact play a major role in the price (but have very little to do with the question at hand - quality), reputation and specs also play an important role. That would explain why McIntosh amps tend to go for more than Kenwood amps. But sometimes it's totally screwy. When you've got Alpine amps going for as much as the equivalent Helix amps, then you know that popularity/recognition is also contributing to the price. All in all, you can't say that an amplifier or speaker is as good as the price tag on it! |
#134
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Directed Amplifiers
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:41:58 GMT, John Durbin
wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. Actually, I've found that eBay ending prices are pretty consistent, so I don't know how much of it is "about finding the right sucker". Unless you put an obscenely-high "Buy It Now" price on an item, and a sucker bites, the final ballpark price on the item is representative of what *several* people are willing to pay, not just one sucker. I recently bought three PPI Art Series amps on eBay, an A300.2, and A600.2, and an A1200.2. I paid more for them than their modern equivalents cost, but there were several factors involved. My bidding was based on PPI's good reputation for amps of the vintage, my own prior good experiences with one of their older 4100AM amps, and the fact that I specifically wanted the ART graphics. In short, I believe that eBay ending prices *are* representative of an amp's "value", if you allow "value" to include collectibility, rarity, and nostalgia, and not just the engineering worth of the amp. After all, the Mcintosh 150-watt home tube amps routinely go for more than $3000, even though there are superior modern amps for less money. Some people just prefer the looks, sound, and construction of the older Mac amps. Scott Gardner and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD tired of your noise floor around here Captain Howdy wrote: You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" html head meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" title/title /head body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff" who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? br br I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. br br and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@!br br JDbr tired of your noise floor around herebr br Captain Howdy wrote:br blockquote type="cite" " pre wrap=""You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" >/a, "Mark Zarella" a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "< >/a wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""is /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""an /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""amp sells for. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. /pre pre wrap=""!---- /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap="" /pre /blockquote /blockquote /body /html --------------020208010501090102060205-- |
#135
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Directed Amplifiers
Agreed, but two things: one, none of that proves his erroneous statement
about the amps in question being clones; two, nostalgia is wonderfully blind at times. I have been in this business for 26 years, and I too have fond memories of products that I worked with and owned "back in the day" ... the difference is, I can also appreciate how much better much of today's product is. Yes, I own two sets of a/d/s/ 2002 powered speakers and the Nakamichi cassette player that went with them. Hell, I even bought a secondhand Advent 201A simply because it was the first deck I ever owned, and learned how to make good tapes with. Doesn't mean I did or would pay a fortune for them on ebay or automatically consider them technically superior to a modern day CD player or component speaker system. I had a car stuffed full of Fosgate amps - PR2100's - that at the time I was totally thrilled by. Today, I know those amps for what they we temperamental and less than stable. I'd still like to own one again just because, but it would not likely get into a car I drove regularly. JD Scott Gardner wrote: On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:41:58 GMT, John Durbin wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. Actually, I've found that eBay ending prices are pretty consistent, so I don't know how much of it is "about finding the right sucker". Unless you put an obscenely-high "Buy It Now" price on an item, and a sucker bites, the final ballpark price on the item is representative of what *several* people are willing to pay, not just one sucker. I recently bought three PPI Art Series amps on eBay, an A300.2, and A600.2, and an A1200.2. I paid more for them than their modern equivalents cost, but there were several factors involved. My bidding was based on PPI's good reputation for amps of the vintage, my own prior good experiences with one of their older 4100AM amps, and the fact that I specifically wanted the ART graphics. In short, I believe that eBay ending prices *are* representative of an amp's "value", if you allow "value" to include collectibility, rarity, and nostalgia, and not just the engineering worth of the amp. After all, the Mcintosh 150-watt home tube amps routinely go for more than $3000, even though there are superior modern amps for less money. Some people just prefer the looks, sound, and construction of the older Mac amps. Scott Gardner and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD tired of your noise floor around here Captain Howdy wrote: You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" html head meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" title/title /head body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff" who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? br br I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. br br and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@!br br JDbr tired of your noise floor around herebr br Captain Howdy wrote:br blockquote type="cite" " pre wrap=""You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" >/a, "Mark Zarella" a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "< >/a wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""is /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""an /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""amp sells for. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. /pre pre wrap=""!---- /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap="" /pre /blockquote /blockquote /body /html --------------020208010501090102060205-- |
#136
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Directed Amplifiers
Sorry, wasn't trying to take sides with that post. For the
record, I was the one that originally described the DIFFERENCES between the Orion and PPI heatsinks in painstaking detail back when this whole "cloning" foolishness thread started. As for my amps, I feel that the series two Art amps hold their own with just about anything modern, as far as sound quality and reliability go. That being said, I think modern amps are a better *value*, because in addition to having good sound, there's a lot more flexibility with built-in signal processing, there are a lot more low-impedance-capable amps out there, the power ratings are up and the prices are down. But, I'm one of the 2% or so that prefers my amplifiers to amplifiy and nothing else. There are enough of us out there that like the Art Series amplifiers that the going prices are pretty stable on eBay. So unless we're *all* suckers, I still say that eBay is an accurate tool for finding out what the market will bear, and not just about finding a "sucker" to dump something on. You notice that no one on eBay gets into a bidding war over an old Rockwood amp, for example. Scott Gardner On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 06:36:29 GMT, John Durbin wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020503040604000909040900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agreed, but two things: one, none of that proves his erroneous statement about the amps in question being clones; two, nostalgia is wonderfully blind at times. I have been in this business for 26 years, and I too have fond memories of products that I worked with and owned "back in the day" ... the difference is, I can also appreciate how much better much of today's product is. Yes, I own two sets of a/d/s/ 2002 powered speakers and the Nakamichi cassette player that went with them. Hell, I even bought a secondhand Advent 201A simply because it was the first deck I ever owned, and learned how to make good tapes with. Doesn't mean I did or would pay a fortune for them on ebay or automatically consider them technically superior to a modern day CD player or component speaker system. I had a car stuffed full of Fosgate amps - PR2100's - that at the time I was totally thrilled by. Today, I know those amps for what they we temperamental and less than stable. I'd still like to own one again just because, but it would not likely get into a car I drove regularly. JD Scott Gardner wrote: On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:41:58 GMT, John Durbin wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. Actually, I've found that eBay ending prices are pretty consistent, so I don't know how much of it is "about finding the right sucker". Unless you put an obscenely-high "Buy It Now" price on an item, and a sucker bites, the final ballpark price on the item is representative of what *several* people are willing to pay, not just one sucker. I recently bought three PPI Art Series amps on eBay, an A300.2, and A600.2, and an A1200.2. I paid more for them than their modern equivalents cost, but there were several factors involved. My bidding was based on PPI's good reputation for amps of the vintage, my own prior good experiences with one of their older 4100AM amps, and the fact that I specifically wanted the ART graphics. In short, I believe that eBay ending prices *are* representative of an amp's "value", if you allow "value" to include collectibility, rarity, and nostalgia, and not just the engineering worth of the amp. After all, the Mcintosh 150-watt home tube amps routinely go for more than $3000, even though there are superior modern amps for less money. Some people just prefer the looks, sound, and construction of the older Mac amps. Scott Gardner and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD tired of your noise floor around here Captain Howdy wrote: You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it is cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that an amp sells for. No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" html head meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" title/title /head body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff" who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? br br I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. br br and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@!br br JDbr tired of your noise floor around herebr br Captain Howdy wrote:br blockquote type="cite" t" pre wrap=""You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" >/a, "Mark Zarella" a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "< >/a wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""is /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""an /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""amp sells for. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. /pre pre wrap=""!---- /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap="" /pre /blockquote /blockquote /body /html --------------020208010501090102060205-- --------------020503040604000909040900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" html head meta http-equiv="Cotent-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" title/title /head body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff" Agreed, but two things: one, none of that proves his erroneous statement about the amps in question being clones; two, nostalgia is wonderfully blind at times.br br I have been in this business for 26 years, and I too have fond memories of products that I worked with and owned "back in the day" ... the difference is, I can also appreciate how much better much of today's product is. Yes, I own two sets of a/d/s/ 2002 powered speakers and the Nakamichi cassette player that went with them. Hell, I even bought a secondhand Advent 201A simply because it was the first deck I ever owned, and learned how to make good tapes with. Doesn't mean I did or would pay a fortune for them on ebay or automatically consider them technically superior to a modern day CD player or component speaker system. I had a car stuffed full of Fosgate amps - PR2100's - that at the time I was totally thrilled by. Today, I know those amps for what they we temperamental and less than stable. I'd still like to own one again just because, but it would not likely get into a car I drove regularly. br br JDbr br Scott Gardner wrote:br blockquote type="cite" " pre wrap=""On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:41:58 GMT, John Durbin a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "<jdurbin1@san .rr.com>/a wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- Actually, I've found that eBay ending prices are pretty consistent, so I don't know how much of it is "about finding the right sucker". Unless you put an obscenely-high "Buy It Now" price on an item, and a sucker bites, the final ballpark price on the item is representative of what *several* people are willing to pay, not just one sucker. I recently bought three PPI Art Series amps on eBay, an A300.2, and A600.2, and an A1200.2. I paid more for them than their modern equivalents cost, but there were several factors involved. My bidding was based on PPI's good reputation for amps of the vintage, my own prior good experiences with one of their older 4100AM amps, and the fact that I specifically wanted the ART graphics. In short, I believe that eBay ending prices *are* representative of an amp's "value", if you allow "value" to include collectibility, rarity, and nostalgia, and not just the engineering worth of the amp. After all, the Mcintosh 150-watt home tube amps routinely go for more than $3000, even though there are superior modern amps for less money. Some people just prefer the looks, sound, and construction of the older Mac amps. Scott Gardner /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD tired of your noise floor around here Captain Howdy wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" >/a, "Mark Zarella" a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "< >/a wrote: /pre blockquote type="cite" blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""is /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""an /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""amp sells for. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. /pre /blockquote pre wrap="" A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap=""And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? /pre blockquote type="cite" pre wrap="" /pre /blockquote /blockquote pre wrap=""--------------020208010501090102060205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> who would pay more for a Memphis than an Alpine? <br> <br> I think you might want to start with a price sheet, and start factoring in original retail and dealer picing, then depreciating for age... then throw all that out, cause ebay pricing is all about finding the right sucker, not about what the product's real value is. <br> <br> and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@!<br> <br> JD<br> tired of your noise floor around here<br> <br> Captain Howdy wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite=a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" "/a> <pre wrap="">You are telling me that more people heard of brands such a Mcintosh, Audison, Memphis vs Kenwood or Alpine, so they pay more for them? You got to be joking. In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" &gt;</a>, "Mark Zarella" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ""mai & gt;</a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I have to agree with that, since some people rather buy an amp because it </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">is </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">cheap. But a valid measure of an amp's quality is the final bid mount that </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">an </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">amp sells for. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> A used Kenwood KAC-929 goes for about $ 80 - $100 on ebay. I can't seem to find a used ESX Quantum 1752 for less then $150. It seems that more people heard of ESX then Kenwood, in your own words. </pre> <pre wrap=""><!----> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Whoever paid that much for a broken amp is insane. There's nothing more to it. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> That's because Orion has nothing in their two channel lineup that even comes close to the GS500. The GS500 was Orion's limited edition flagship amplifier, This is the most sawed after Orion amp to date. The few GS500's that I have seen for sale never sold for less then $800. Not bad for an amp that's around 15 years old. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">But I'm no longer surprised by the idiots that buy car audio anyway. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> So what you're saying is that everyone other then yourself is misinformed about their choice of car audio. Aren't you full of yourself. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">And I provided examples where your assertion is untrue. So why on earth are you using ebay as a measure of an amp's quality? Why not discuss the relative merits of the amplifier itself? This is just puzzling to me... </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> Because it shows that people rather pay more for older gear, because the new stuff is crap. Isn't that how this got started? </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> </body> </html> --------------020208010501090102060205-- /pre /blockquote pre wrap=""!---- /pre /blockquote /body /html --------------020503040604000909040900-- |
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That's because we are on the topic of " Checkout Ebay and you'll see what
people are paying for old Orion and PPI amps compared to the new ones." I'm glad you noticed though. and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD |
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In article , John Durbin wrote:
Sounds like you should be bitching at Directed Canada, not me. They are an independent firm that distributes and markets our products in Canada - and a really great bunch of guys too. However, I have nothing to do with the way they market our security products in Canada so barking at me about it is truly a waste of time. Unfortunately things like this do not reflect on just marketing or a company in part, but they do reflect on the company in whole. What company hired this independent firm that distributes and markets your products in Canada? The support program is not ours either, so be more careful when you say things like "DEI warranty support sucks" - you're slandering the wrong company. DEI is an abbreviation of Directed Electronics, Inc. - once again, that's us, not the company you're talking about. Slandering??? There is nothing false about my statement, so where do you get slander from? This is what two local dealers had to say when asked why they no longer carry DEI products. This independent firm that distributes and markets your products in Canada represents who by doing so? |
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Slandering??? There is nothing false about my statement,
Yes there is. You said DEI sucks when it's not DEI that you should be mad at, but the marketing firm in Canada that's distributing their product. so where do you get slander from? This is what two local dealers had to say when asked why they no longer carry DEI products. Then they're not very intelligent people and probably won't be in business too much longer if they can't tell the difference between DEI and a DEI distributor. Paul Vina |
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In article GTjGb.469321$275.1364767@attbi_s53, "Paul Vina" wrote:
Slandering??? There is nothing false about my statement, Yes there is. You said DEI sucks when it's not DEI that you should be mad at, but the marketing firm in Canada that's distributing their product. so where do you get slander from? This is what two local dealers had to say when asked why they no longer carry DEI products. You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. Then they're not very intelligent people and probably won't be in business too much longer if they can't tell the difference between DEI and a DEI distributor. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, even though most retailers contract these warranties to other companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long enough to go without question. |
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You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? even though most retailers contract these warranties to other companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long enough to go without question. You'd think so. Paul Vina |
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No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. If that is true. Lots of people are familiar with Pyramid and Jensen, and Pyle amps, we both know that these amps are way over rated in power handling. Take any of the above amps and compare it with a 400watt McIntosh, If people truly did not have the right amount of experience or knowledge to purchase amplifiers the out come in this comparison, would be that no one in their right mind would pay more then $30 for a brand new 400watt McIntosh, simply because you can buy a brand new 1400watt Pyle amp for $90. If these people have enough experience to find and use Ebay, I'm sure that they have enough experience to find and use a google search to find information on any given amp along with end user reviews. Bottom line is that people tend to only buy products that they have had some form of experience with, or know someone that has had a positive experience with that product. 20 years ago things might have been different, but today information is cheap and very easy to find. The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. Check Ebay, you'll see that the ESX Quantum 752 sells for about $50- $75 more then the Kenwood Kac-929. |
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No, it's not. The final bid amount is a result of what people are
willing to spend. You make the assumption that everyone bidding on amplifiers has experience will all the amplifiers available and therfore can make that determination. Nothing can be further from the truth. If that is true. Lots of people are familiar with Pyramid and Jensen, and Pyle amps, we both know that these amps are way over rated in power handling. Take any of the above amps and compare it with a 400watt McIntosh, If people truly did not have the right amount of experience or knowledge to purchase amplifiers the out come in this comparison, would be that no one in their right mind would pay more then $30 for a brand new 400watt McIntosh, simply because you can buy a brand new 1400watt Pyle amp for $90. Well, that's usually the only people who buy the Pyle amps. The people who don't know what they're buying. Or the people who do know what they're buying but realize what it is. If these people have enough experience to find and use Ebay, I'm sure that they have enough experience to find and use a google search to find information on any given amp along with end user reviews. Most people aren't willing to put that much research into a purchase. Myself included, for some things. Bottom line is that people tend to only buy products that they have had some form of experience with, or know someone that has had a positive experience with that product. Exactly! And more people have had experience (or know someone who has had experience or talked to someone on the net) with the Best Buy or Circuit City amps than ESX amps. Don't you agree? The fact remains that Kenwood amps, for example, tend to go for more money than the equivalently-rated ESX amps simply because there are more people who have heard of them. Check Ebay, you'll see that the ESX Quantum 752 sells for about $50- $75 more then the Kenwood Kac-929. Recently some people overpaid for a Q752. I was actually one of the bidders but I didn't go that high. They spent $150 for it. It tends to go for about $100. I know because I've sold two of them, bought the same two, and check rather often for ESX amps in general. The main reason I get them (and certain a/d/s/ amps) is because they're undervalued on ebay. I don't have a woody for ESX or a/d/s/ in particular. Also, that Kenwood amp puts out about 1/2 the power of the Q752 if I remember correctly. |
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"There is nothing false about my statement"
Yes, there is. You wrote: "DEI warranty support sucks" That is not true, nor does your inability to distinguish between DEI (us) and Directed Canada (our customer) make it true. We do not handle warranty in Canada, and blind surveys of dealers in the US market score our warranty support in the low-to-mid 4's (out of a possible 5, 1 being low and 5 being the best). By the way, maybe you use a different version of the English language up there, but how exactly does one "hire" a customer? These guys work for themselves, not us - hence my use of the term "independent firm". Get it now? I'm starting to wonder if you ever argue about something you truly understand, or just fumble around in the dark like this 24/7... JD Captain Howdy wrote: In article , John Durbin wrote: Sounds like you should be bitching at Directed Canada, not me. They are an independent firm that distributes and markets our products in Canada - and a really great bunch of guys too. However, I have nothing to do with the way they market our security products in Canada so barking at me about it is truly a waste of time. Unfortunately things like this do not reflect on just marketing or a company in part, but they do reflect on the company in whole. What company hired this independent firm that distributes and markets your products in Canada? The support program is not ours either, so be more careful when you say things like "DEI warranty support sucks" - you're slandering the wrong company. DEI is an abbreviation of Directed Electronics, Inc. - once again, that's us, not the company you're talking about. Slandering??? There is nothing false about my statement, so where do you get slander from? This is what two local dealers had to say when asked why they no longer carry DEI products. This independent firm that distributes and markets your products in Canada represents who by doing so? |
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Is that what the topic is? I thought you were on the topic of "let's see
how many times the Captain can be wrong in the same thread"... JD Captain Howdy wrote: That's because we are on the topic of " Checkout Ebay and you'll see what people are paying for old Orion and PPI amps compared to the new ones." I'm glad you noticed though. and. none of that has a single F#@%#$%$ THING TO DO WITH YOUR BS COMMENTS ABOUT CLONING!!@! JD |
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Directed Amplifiers
Paul,
Our warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, separate program run by the distributor in place. Not that it should matter much, when you ship product that has as microscopically small of a true defect rate as our alarms do... JD Paul Vina wrote: You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? even though most retailers contract these warranties to other companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long enough to go without question. You'd think so. Paul Vina |
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Directed Amplifiers
And that even furthers proves what a dumbass he is. He should definitely be more upset with the distributor.
Paul Vina "John Durbin" wrote in message ... Paul, Our warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, separate program run by the distributor in place. Not that it should matter much, when you ship product that has as microscopically small of a true defect rate as our alarms do... JD Paul Vina wrote: You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? even though most retailers contract these warranties to other companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long enough to go without question. You'd think so. Paul Vina |
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In article t_oGb.472065$275.1369590@attbi_s53, "Paul Vina" wrote:
You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. There you go again, you're total off track. This is not about what I think, This is about why local dealers dropped DEI products. These are two dealers that I have talked to personally regarding this issue. None of them said anything negative about DEI products, they said negative things about their service/support. This group does not represent that the car audio world my any means, nor does it apply to the rest of the car audio world. It's a Canadian support issue. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? This has nothing to do with DEI's warranty or it's length, this is an example just to give you a better understanding about how warranties work. even though most retailers contract these warranties to other companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. It's totally irrelevant, because the warranty is given by the manufacture and not the distributor. I don't think that this would be all that hard to understand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long enough to go without question. You'd think so. Paul Vina |
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And that even furthers proves what a dumbass he is. He should = definitely be more upset with the distributor. You are as clueless as they come. When I buy a DEI product, I am buying the product through the retailer and distributor, when a retailer buys a product he/she buys it through the distributor. But the manufacture is still responsible to uphold the warranty or to make sure that the warranty is being upheld by the contracted party. Do I need to spell this out for you Paul? Paul Vina "John Durbin" wrote in message = .. . Paul, Our warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, = separate program run by the distributor in place.=20 Not that it should matter much, when you ship product that has as = microscopically small of a true defect rate as our alarms do...=20 JD Paul Vina wrote: You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two = dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. =20 In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your = own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the = word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs = out, =20 Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an = authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? even though most retailers contract these warranties to other = companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to = deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You = walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did = some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? =20 Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since = that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long = enough to go without question. =20 You'd think so. Paul Vina ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C3CA45.F6F34C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEADTITLE/TITLE META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1 META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff DIVFONT size=3D2And that even furthers proves what a dumbass he = is. He=20 should definitely be more upset with the distributor./FONT/DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2Paul Vina/FONT/DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIV /DIV BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" DIV"John Durbin" <A=20 r.com/A> wrote = in message=20 A=20 = . rr.com"news:AZqGb.27976= /A.../DIVPaul,BRBROur=20 warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, separate = program=20 run by the distributor in place. BRBRNot that it should matter = much, when=20 you ship product that has as microscopically small of a true defect = rate as=20 our alarms do... BRBRJDBRBRPaul Vina wrote:BR BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmidt_oGb.472065$275.1369590@attbi_s53 = type=3D"cite" BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""You must of not understood = my post. I said that this was what two dealers /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----had /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""to say. DEI sucks!!! There = you go NOW I said it. /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your = own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the = word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""In Canada new items are = sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----retailers. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""These warranties go into = affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an = authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""even though most retailers = contract these warranties to other companies to /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----do /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""the repairs, it is the = retailer that is responsible to uphold these /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----warranties /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""as is the manufacture and = not the companies that the retailer or /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----manufacture /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""contracts. So why in the = world would anyone want to worry or have to deal /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----with /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""someone else's problems ? = Let me make this really easy for you. You walk /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----into /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""a shopping mall after a = cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""As a matter of fact the one = dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long = enough /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----to /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""go without question. /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- You'd think so. Paul Vina /PRE/BLOCKQUOTE/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C3CA45.F6F34C80-- |
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Directed Amplifiers
I don't care who handles your warranty or to whom you sell your product to,
nor does the law care. As long as you manufacturer the products in question you are fully liable for them and their warranty. If you had a independent firm manufacturing your products in Canada and selling them under the a different brand name, or even under the name "Directed Canada" separating you from your Canadian market under the laws of incorporation that would have been a totally different story. Now go back to sweeping the floor. In article , John Durbin wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060102080902070606020404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "There is nothing false about my statement" Yes, there is. You wrote: "DEI warranty support sucks" That is not true, nor does your inability to distinguish between DEI (us) and Directed Canada (our customer) make it true. We do not handle warranty in Canada, and blind surveys of dealers in the US market score our warranty support in the low-to-mid 4's (out of a possible 5, 1 being low and 5 being the best). By the way, maybe you use a different version of the English language up there, but how exactly does one "hire" a customer? These guys work for themselves, not us - hence my use of the term "independent firm". Get it now? I'm starting to wonder if you ever argue about something you truly understand, or just fumble around in the dark like this 24/7... JD |
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I don't know about spelling it out for Paul, but you should go check
your facts... warranty laws don't cross national borders. JD Captain Howdy wrote: And that even furthers proves what a dumbass he is. He should = definitely be more upset with the distributor. You are as clueless as they come. When I buy a DEI product, I am buying the product through the retailer and distributor, when a retailer buys a product he/she buys it through the distributor. But the manufacture is still responsible to uphold the warranty or to make sure that the warranty is being upheld by the contracted party. Do I need to spell this out for you Paul? Paul Vina "John Durbin" wrote in message = . .. Paul, Our warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, = separate program run by the distributor in place.=20 Not that it should matter much, when you ship product that has as = microscopically small of a true defect rate as our alarms do...=20 JD Paul Vina wrote: You must of not understood my post. I said that this was what two = dealers had to say. DEI sucks!!! There you go NOW I said it. =20 In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your = own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the = word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. In Canada new items are sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from retailers. These warranties go into affect after the manufacture's warranty runs = out, =20 Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an = authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? even though most retailers contract these warranties to other = companies to do the repairs, it is the retailer that is responsible to uphold these warranties as is the manufacture and not the companies that the retailer or manufacture contracts. So why in the world would anyone want to worry or have to = deal with someone else's problems ? Let me make this really easy for you. You = walk into a shopping mall after a cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did = some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? =20 Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. As a matter of fact the one dealer in question has been around since = that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long = enough to go without question. =20 You'd think so. Paul Vina ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C3CA45.F6F34C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEADTITLE/TITLE META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1 META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff DIVFONT size=3D2And that even furthers proves what a dumbass he = is. He=20 should definitely be more upset with the distributor./FONT/DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2Paul Vina/FONT/DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT size=3D2/FONT /DIV DIV /DIV BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" DIV"John Durbin" <A=20 r.com/A> wrote = in message=20 A=20 = .rr.com"news:AZqGb.27976= /A.../DIVPaul,BRBROur=20 warranty covers the US... Canada and Mexico have their own, separate = program=20 run by the distributor in place. BRBRNot that it should matter = much, when=20 you ship product that has as microscopically small of a true defect = rate as=20 our alarms do... BRBRJDBRBRPaul Vina wrote:BR BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmidt_oGb.472065$275.1369590@attbi_s53 = type=3D"cite" BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""You must of not understood = my post. I said that this was what two dealers /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----had /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""to say. DEI sucks!!! There = you go NOW I said it. /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- In other words you're saying you weren't intelligent enough to form your = own opinion about a product. In fact, you still aren't if you belive the = word of 2 dealers over the rest of the car audio world. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""In Canada new items are = sold with a "manufacture's warranty" and not a distributor's warranty. You can also buy extended warranties from /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----retailers. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""These warranties go into = affect after the manufacture's warranty runs out, /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- Ummmmm.......DEI offers a lifetime warranty if installed by an = authorized dealer. Why are you paying extra for what DEI provides for free? /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""even though most retailers = contract these warranties to other companies to /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----do /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""the repairs, it is the = retailer that is responsible to uphold these /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----warranties /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""as is the manufacture and = not the companies that the retailer or /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----manufacture /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""contracts. So why in the = world would anyone want to worry or have to deal /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----with /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""someone else's problems ? = Let me make this really easy for you. You walk /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----into /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""a shopping mall after a = cleaning crew that was hired my the mall did some cleaning and left the floor wet, you slip and fall. Who do you sue, The cleaning crew that was hired by the mall or the mall itself? /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- Because this is SO relevant to the discussion at hand. /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""As a matter of fact the one = dealer in question has been around since that 70's, and the other store since the late 80's. I think that's long = enough /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!----to /PRE BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"PRE wrap=3D""go without question. /PRE/BLOCKQUOTEPRE wrap=3D""!---- You'd think so. Paul Vina /PRE/BLOCKQUOTE/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C3CA45.F6F34C80-- |
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Directed Amplifiers
Where did you dig this theory up? You're almost as clueless about trade
law as you are about amplifiers... JD seems to me that everyone and his cousin here at RAC has been sweeping the floor with you, frankly Captain Howdy wrote: I don't care who handles your warranty or to whom you sell your product to, nor does the law care. As long as you manufacturer the products in question you are fully liable for them and their warranty. If you had a independent firm manufacturing your products in Canada and selling them under the a different brand name, or even under the name "Directed Canada" separating you from your Canadian market under the laws of incorporation that would have been a totally different story. Now go back to sweeping the floor. In article , John Durbin wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060102080902070606020404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "There is nothing false about my statement" Yes, there is. You wrote: "DEI warranty support sucks" That is not true, nor does your inability to distinguish between DEI (us) and Directed Canada (our customer) make it true. We do not handle warranty in Canada, and blind surveys of dealers in the US market score our warranty support in the low-to-mid 4's (out of a possible 5, 1 being low and 5 being the best). By the way, maybe you use a different version of the English language up there, but how exactly does one "hire" a customer? These guys work for themselves, not us - hence my use of the term "independent firm". Get it now? I'm starting to wonder if you ever argue about something you truly understand, or just fumble around in the dark like this 24/7... JD |
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Call the the Federal Trade Commission and ask for the International Division
of Consumer Protection about that, or in Canada call the Competition Bureau, Industry Canada. You moron In article , John Durbin wrote: I don't know about spelling it out for Paul, but you should go check your facts... warranty laws don't cross national borders. |
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Like I said, make a phone call, you'll see just what a moron you really are.
The only thing that you know is how to talk out your ass about your products. Trying to tell people how good your new products are while you openly admitted that you don't know **** about the products that companies such Orion, PPI and ADS produced before DEI bought them out. Only a moron would believe anything that you have to say about DEI related products. We both know that the truth would be against your best interest. Where did you dig this theory up? You're almost as clueless about trade law as you are about amplifiers... JD seems to me that everyone and his cousin here at RAC has been sweeping the floor with you, frankly |
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Sounds like someone's holiday eggnog was spiked pretty hard this holiday
season... n8 Like I said, make a phone call, you'll see just what a moron you really are. The only thing that you know is how to talk out your ass about your products. Trying to tell people how good your new products are while you openly admitted that you don't know **** about the products that companies such Orion, PPI and ADS produced before DEI bought them out. Only a moron would believe anything that you have to say about DEI related products. We both know that the truth would be against your best interest. Where did you dig this theory up? You're almost as clueless about trade law as you are about amplifiers... JD seems to me that everyone and his cousin here at RAC has been sweeping the floor with you, frankly |
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But the manufacture is still
responsible to uphold the warranty or to make sure that the warranty is being upheld by the contracted party. Do I need to spell this out for you Paul? Actually JD explained it in his last post. DEI warranties in Canada are handled by Directed Canada, not DEI. Do I need to spell it out for you? Paul Vina |
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If by "season" you mean "since his retarded ass started posting here" then
yes, I agree with you! Paul Vina "n8 skow" wrote in message news:bFNGb.23816$PK3.13253@okepread01... Sounds like someone's holiday eggnog was spiked pretty hard this holiday season... n8 Like I said, make a phone call, you'll see just what a moron you really are. The only thing that you know is how to talk out your ass about your products. Trying to tell people how good your new products are while you openly admitted that you don't know **** about the products that companies such Orion, PPI and ADS produced before DEI bought them out. Only a moron would believe anything that you have to say about DEI related products. We both know that the truth would be against your best interest. Where did you dig this theory up? You're almost as clueless about trade law as you are about amplifiers... JD seems to me that everyone and his cousin here at RAC has been sweeping the floor with you, frankly |
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"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
... And this is coming from a noob that uses AOL, poor child. In article , othanks (Soundfreak03) wrote: What is your point other then being a noob? Psssst. Captain, its the other way around. trust me O1Eye is far from a noob, he's done CES reports since I've been on car audio sites like 97 |
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"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
... Maybe Audiobahn is a little better then you think, i don't know I have never used any of their gear. No one is foced to bid on amps that they don't want on Ebay. If Audiobahn is the biggest seller on Ebay, then their is a reason for it. What is your point? In article , "Mark Zarella" wrote: Checkout Ebay and you'll see what people are paying for old Orion and PPI amps compared to the new ones. Ah yes, ebay. Where Audiobahn is the biggest seller. one reason that Audiobahn sells well on eBay is because it looks pretty, most people buy car audio comp. based on looks printed specs. when they get a little knowledge they learn to buy the used McIn amp and not the 1000kws for $79.95 |
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"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:t0PGb.481653$275.1379414@attbi_s53... If by "season" you mean "since his retarded ass started posting here" then yes, I agree with you! Paul Vina PV you have to give him credit many persons have piled on him and he's standing his position I like that. The best way for him to learn similarities and differences he needs to see the circuit boards and layout/heatsink of the amp and the debt will be settled. If any one can put the pics inside and out of all the amps in question this thread may die |
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