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#1
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Telefunken VF14K
I just watched a video in which Telefunken claims that their own VF14K (made in
Connecticut, USA) is absolutely identical to the original VF14. How credible is that statement? It's fascinating that a U47 recreation is available, but I wonder how much the recreation is like a U47 when it was new. Fletcher convinced me to sell my U47 to a famous producer a number of years ago. I wish I hadn't done that. At least it has gone on to do great things. |
#2
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Telefunken VF14K
mcp6453 wrote:
I just watched a video in which Telefunken claims that their own VF14K (made in Connecticut, USA) is absolutely identical to the original VF14. How credible is that statement? It's fascinating that a U47 recreation is available, but I wonder how much the recreation is like a U47 when it was new. See, the problem is that the VF14 isn't really a very good tube overall for that sort of application. I suspect it was picked because it was the quietest thing available on the surplus market at the time. Neumann goes on to run it with reduced filament voltage which extends tube life considerably but does not help linearity. So... since the VF14 in the U47 is not really optimal for the job and is operating sort of out of the normal operating envelope, you'd have to not only copy the VF14 in such a way that it met the original specifications, you would also have to do it in such a way that it met some of the operating requirements that were never originally specified with the tube. What Telefunken is doing is repackaging an NOS glass tube that has similar characteristics (and I suspect I know the one they have picked) and putting it onto a goofy VF14 base. Not having heard it (and having some biases about the U47 that are unpopular today), I can't say how close it is. I _can_ say that if you take an EF14 and alter the filament supply voltage, it sounds just to me like the VF14. So this is still a reasonably-priced replacement for existing mikes. However.... I think the nuvistor and solid state options for the U47 sound a lot better than the original VF14... and Neumann thought so too, or they would never have introduced them. I'd suggest that an EF86 would probably sound fine in a U47... it won't have the same top end character but I'd call that an advantage. Fletcher convinced me to sell my U47 to a famous producer a number of years ago. I wish I hadn't done that. At least it has gone on to do great things. I'm not really a fan of the things, but you can take heart in the fact that they are probably worth less now than they were when you sold them. When the Japanese economy went bust, a lot of these prices started dropping although still not anywhere down to normal levels. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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Telefunken VF14K
On 1/20/2012 10:33 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
What Telefunken is doing is repackaging an NOS glass tube that has similar characteristics (and I suspect I know the one they have picked) and putting it onto a goofy VF14 base. If that's true, then it's "repackaged" in CT, not made in CT. However.... I think the nuvistor and solid state options for the U47 sound a lot better than the original VF14. My U47 was Nuvistor. Before the producer bought it, he did a shootout with many other microphones, including some U47s with VF14. I'm not really a fan of the things, but you can take heart in the fact that they are probably worth less now than they were when you sold them. When the Japanese economy went bust, a lot of these prices started dropping although still not anywhere down to normal levels. The word needs to get out to the people selling them. Every one I see is in la la land. I've got my eyes on another old Neumann, but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger. It hasn't sold in a couple of months, so there must be something wrong with it that I can't see. If you were going to buy a "new" U47, not that you would, would you buy a Telefunken, Peluso, Wunder, or some other brand? And why does no one talk about the Lawson L47 any more? The one I had was one of the finest sounding microphones I ever heard. To my ears, it smoked the U47. The guy I sold it to (dumb me again) uses it every day as his go-to microphone for vocals. |
#4
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Telefunken VF14K
"mcp6453" wrote in message
... On 1/20/2012 10:33 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: What Telefunken is doing is repackaging an NOS glass tube that has similar characteristics (and I suspect I know the one they have picked) and putting it onto a goofy VF14 base. If that's true, then it's "repackaged" in CT, not made in CT. However.... I think the nuvistor and solid state options for the U47 sound a lot better than the original VF14. My U47 was Nuvistor. Before the producer bought it, he did a shootout with many other microphones, including some U47s with VF14. I'm not really a fan of the things, but you can take heart in the fact that they are probably worth less now than they were when you sold them. When the Japanese economy went bust, a lot of these prices started dropping although still not anywhere down to normal levels. The word needs to get out to the people selling them. Every one I see is in la la land. I've got my eyes on another old Neumann, but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger. It hasn't sold in a couple of months, so there must be something wrong with it that I can't see. If you were going to buy a "new" U47, not that you would, would you buy a Telefunken, Peluso, Wunder, or some other brand? And why does no one talk about the Lawson L47 any more? The one I had was one of the finest sounding microphones I ever heard. To my ears, it smoked the U47. The guy I sold it to (dumb me again) uses it every day as his go-to microphone for vocals. I had the chance to compare several voices both male and female head to head on a VF14 type U-47 and a Lawson L47. I preferred the Lawson by a wide margin. Of course, that could have been partially due to the U-47 capsule, which was, I think, an original. Steve King |
#5
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Telefunken VF14K
mcp6453 wrote:
On 1/20/2012 10:33 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: What Telefunken is doing is repackaging an NOS glass tube that has similar characteristics (and I suspect I know the one they have picked) and putting it onto a goofy VF14 base. If that's true, then it's "repackaged" in CT, not made in CT. That's what the Telefunken web site claims, if you go looking closely enough. It's a perfectly reasonable approach, though. However.... I think the nuvistor and solid state options for the U47 sound a lot better than the original VF14. My U47 was Nuvistor. Before the producer bought it, he did a shootout with many other microphones, including some U47s with VF14. The VF14 versions are worth a lot more than the nuvistor ones today. I don't know why. The nuvistor is an amazing thing, but people like the coloration from the VF14 stage. I'd rather do without it; the nuvistor is about as clean as it is possible to be. If you were going to buy a "new" U47, not that you would, would you buy a Telefunken, Peluso, Wunder, or some other brand? The problem is that no two vintage U47s sound the same, so nobody really agrees on what they are supposed to sound like. Most of the original U47s out there have brittle diaphragms because the original diaphragm was PVC that lost plasticizer over the years. Many people think the "u47 sound" is the sound of a mike with a brittle diaphragm and a huge high end peak, and some of the U47 copies are intended to model that. As far as I know, none of the copies are made with PVC any longer, but mylar. So they won't sound like the originals but they also won't sound like a failed original either. And why does no one talk about the Lawson L47 any more? The one I had was one of the finest sounding microphones I ever heard. To my ears, it smoked the U47. The guy I sold it to (dumb me again) uses it every day as his go-to microphone for vocals. I don't know, I would actually say that if I were going to buy a U47 clone I would go with the L47. It's not a clone, really, and in some ways it's a much better microphone. The original Soundeluxe E47 also was interesting to me... it had some of that off-axis U47 stuff going on and it was super bright but not so harsh. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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Telefunken VF14K
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#7
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Telefunken VF14K
On Jan 25, 7:16*pm, Robert Orban wrote:
In article , says... Most of the original U47s out there have brittle diaphragms because the original diaphragm was PVC that lost plasticizer over the years. *Many people think the "u47 sound" is the sound of a mike with a brittle diaphragm and a huge high end peak, and some of the U47 copies are intended to model that. A few years ago, I had Sennheiser restore three U67s that had developed crackles. I had owned these mics since 1965. Sennheiser replaced the capsules (among other things). I have a crackly U47, and I plan to have the same thing done. It will not both me in the slightest if they replace the capsule with one meeting the original factory spec (as opposed to the one now in the mic, which, as you said, has probably gone very brittle). I want the mic restored as close to "like new" condition as possible, meaning how it sounded in the '50s and not now. You may want to check into having the restoration done by Microtech Gefell. They've kept the original diaphragms in production continuously since WWII. Peace, Paul |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Telefunken VF14K
Robert Orban wrote:
A few years ago, I had Sennheiser restore three U67s that had developed crackles. I had owned these mics since 1965. Sennheiser replaced the capsules (among other things). I have a crackly U47, and I plan to have the same thing done. It will not both me in the slightest if they replace the capsule with one meeting the original factory spec (as opposed to the one now in the mic, which, as you said, has probably gone very brittle). I want the mic restored as close to "like new" condition as possible, meaning how it sounded in the '50s and not now. The problem is that when they replace the capsules, they replace them with ones that have modern mylar diaphragms in them and are tensioned with modern methods. So when they do this, it's not the way it was in the '50s. It might be better (and it will certainly be a lot more stable), but it's not the same. Gefell can put PVC diaphragms on them, and so can a couple of the aftermarket microphone guys. Personally I think this is a bad plan because it puts you back on the same path to deterioration that caused you to need to replace the thing in the first place. But you might prefer it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Telefunken VF14K
PStamler writes:
snips I have a crackly U47, and I plan to have the same thing done. It will not both me in the slightest if they replace the capsule with one meeting the original factory spec (as opposed to the one now in the mic, which, as you said, has probably gone very brittle). I want the mic restored as close to "like new" condition as possible, meaning how it sounded in the '50s and not now. You may want to check into having the restoration done by Microtech Gefell. They've kept the original diaphragms in production continuously since WWII. Paul, that's interesting. Didn't know Gefell did that. I wonder how those restorations compare to their contemporary 900 and 300 series microphones, of which I have several. (Session after session I'm pleased with the size, price, and performance of the modern Gefells. At least for the classical music I typically do they always perform and rarely get "in the way" sonically, physically, or financially w.) Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#11
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Telefunken VF14K
On Jan 26, 10:54*am, Frank Stearns
wrote: PStamler writes: snips I have a crackly U47, and I plan to have the same thing done. It will not both me in the slightest if they replace the capsule with one meeting the original factory spec (as opposed to the one now in the mic, which, as you said, has probably gone very brittle). I want the mic restored as close to "like new" condition as possible, meaning how it sounded in the '50s and not now. You may want to check into having the restoration done by Microtech Gefell. They've kept the original diaphragms in production continuously since WWII. Paul, that's interesting. Didn't know Gefell did that. I wonder how those restorations compare to their contemporary 900 and 300 series microphones, of which I have several. (Session after session I'm pleased with the size, price, and performance of the modern Gefells. At least for the classical music I typically do they always perform and rarely get "in the way" sonically, physically, or financially w.) I've been told (and I have no idea if it's correct) that the M930 has essentially the same metalwork as an M7 (U 47) capsule, but a mylar diaphragm, better tensioning and very different electronics. As I said, I don't know if this is right or not, but like Frank I've had very good luck using M930s for many kinds of recording. Peace, Paul |
#12
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Telefunken VF14K
PStamler wrote:
I've been told (and I have no idea if it's correct) that the M930 has essentially the same metalwork as an M7 (U 47) capsule, but a mylar diaphragm, better tensioning and very different electronics. As I said, I don't know if this is right or not, but like Frank I've had very good luck using M930s for many kinds of recording. It is a good-sounding mike, and it does have a lot of the same off-axis stuff going on that the U47 does. It really seems that a lot of people like the U47 because of the coloration from the electronics. I don't. So I would say that the much cleaner electronics of the M930 are a serious win. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#13
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Telefunken VF14K
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