The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away.

Heaven forbid!

That's not science and its not reasonble[sic]

For you, "science" is belief in things not seen.

Why don't you go see a mental health professional already?

George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of audio
science without insulting the other guy. If you think Arny - or anyone else
on the side opposite yours - is making an error of fact, then state your
case. When people stoop to childish name calling it just shows they have
nothing of substance. Are insults like the above really all that you have to
offer?

The quotes below are relevant in this discussion, and are taken from the
article Logical Fallacies, by Steven Novella, MD

--Ethan

==============

AD HOMINEM

Ad hominem arguments attempt to counter an argument by attacking the person
making the argument, rather than the argument itself. True believers will
often commit this fallacy by countering the arguments of skeptics by stating
that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics, on the other hand, may fall into
the trap of dismissing the claims of UFO believers, for example, by stating
that people who believe in UFO's are crazy or stupid.

AD IGNORANTUM

The argument from ignorance is a pervasive logical fallacy, especially among
those who wish to maintain a belief which seems to be contradicted by
conventional science. The argument basically states that a specific belief
is true because we don't know that it isn't true. Defenders of extrasensory
perception, for example, will often overemphasize how much we do not know
about the human brain. Often, the argument is simply that science doesn't
know everything, therefore my preferred belief cannot be definitively
excluded.

EQUATING UNEXPLAINED WITH UNEXPLAINABLE

This argument leads from the premise that a particular phenomenon or event
is currently unexplained, and then leads to the conclusion that it is
therefore unexplainable, at least by ordinary means, and therefore must be
paranormal in nature. Gullible ghost hunters, for example, will make this
fallacy when presenting anomalous photographs as evidence for the existence
of ghosts. Since they cannot provide a ready explanation for the blob of
light they have captured on film, they conclude that no conventional
explanation is possible. They will often then combine this with the false
dichotomy fallacy by concluding that if the blob of light is not due to a
conventional cause, it must be a ghost, ignoring the myriad other possible
causes of an anomalous photograph. UFO believers are also notorious for
using this logical fallacy to leap from the observation of an unidentified
point of light in the sky to the conclusion that alien spacecraft are
visiting the Earth.

STRAW MAN

This is not a logical fallacy in the classic sense as I have defined it - an
invalid connection between a premise and a conclusion. It is, however, a
very common error made during debates or arguments. A straw man is an
argument made by mischaracterizing an opponent's viewpoint in a particularly
weak fashion, and then attacking the weaker version of your opponent's
arguments, rather than their real arguments. For example, creationist
literature will often falsely state that evolutionary biologists believe in
spontaneous generation of life, and then proceed to recount the classic
experiments which disprove spontaneous generation. Kennedy assassination
conspiracy believers often speak of the "magic bullet" argument, in which
they contend that conspiracy skeptics must believe that a bullet can hang in
mid air for two seconds, then make a 90 degree turn. Of course, no one
believes that flimsy straw man. What conspiracy skeptics really say is that
the evidence shows the so called magic bullet went in a straight and
continuous line.

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy. If you think Arny - or anyone
else
on the side opposite yours - is making an error of fact, then state your
case. When people stoop to childish name calling it just shows they have
nothing of substance. Are insults like the above really all that you have
to
offer?


Georgem doesn't know anything about audio, he just knows he doesn't like
people who do.

The quotes below are relevant in this discussion, and are taken from the
article Logical Fallacies, by Steven Novella, MD

--Ethan

==============

AD HOMINEM

Ad hominem arguments attempt to counter an argument by attacking the
person
making the argument, rather than the argument itself. True believers will
often commit this fallacy by countering the arguments of skeptics by
stating
that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics, on the other hand, may fall
into
the trap of dismissing the claims of UFO believers, for example, by
stating
that people who believe in UFO's are crazy or stupid.

AD IGNORANTUM

The argument from ignorance is a pervasive logical fallacy, especially
among
those who wish to maintain a belief which seems to be contradicted by
conventional science. The argument basically states that a specific belief
is true because we don't know that it isn't true. Defenders of
extrasensory
perception, for example, will often overemphasize how much we do not know
about the human brain. Often, the argument is simply that science doesn't
know everything, therefore my preferred belief cannot be definitively
excluded.

EQUATING UNEXPLAINED WITH UNEXPLAINABLE

This argument leads from the premise that a particular phenomenon or event
is currently unexplained, and then leads to the conclusion that it is
therefore unexplainable, at least by ordinary means, and therefore must be
paranormal in nature. Gullible ghost hunters, for example, will make this
fallacy when presenting anomalous photographs as evidence for the
existence
of ghosts. Since they cannot provide a ready explanation for the blob of
light they have captured on film, they conclude that no conventional
explanation is possible. They will often then combine this with the false
dichotomy fallacy by concluding that if the blob of light is not due to a
conventional cause, it must be a ghost, ignoring the myriad other possible
causes of an anomalous photograph. UFO believers are also notorious for
using this logical fallacy to leap from the observation of an unidentified
point of light in the sky to the conclusion that alien spacecraft are
visiting the Earth.

STRAW MAN

This is not a logical fallacy in the classic sense as I have defined it -
an
invalid connection between a premise and a conclusion. It is, however, a
very common error made during debates or arguments. A straw man is an
argument made by mischaracterizing an opponent's viewpoint in a
particularly
weak fashion, and then attacking the weaker version of your opponent's
arguments, rather than their real arguments. For example, creationist
literature will often falsely state that evolutionary biologists believe
in
spontaneous generation of life, and then proceed to recount the classic
experiments which disprove spontaneous generation. Kennedy assassination
conspiracy believers often speak of the "magic bullet" argument, in which
they contend that conspiracy skeptics must believe that a bullet can hang
in
mid air for two seconds, then make a 90 degree turn. Of course, no one
believes that flimsy straw man. What conspiracy skeptics really say is
that
the evidence shows the so called magic bullet went in a straight and
continuous line.

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com said:

George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of audio
science without insulting the other guy. If you think Arny - or anyone else
on the side opposite yours - is making an error of fact, then state your
case. When people stoop to childish name calling it just shows they have
nothing of substance. Are insults like the above really all that you have to
offer?

You give cluelessness a new dimension. "facts"? "errors"? This is Arnii
Kroofeces we're talking about, not a regular person.

Sorry you have no idea what you're talking about. If you'd like, I can
help you a little: http://groups.google.com/. Everything you don't know
can be found with some searching.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com said:

George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again,
ranting away ... For you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again
after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss
the facts of audio science without insulting the other
guy. If you think Arny - or anyone else on the side
opposite yours - is making an error of fact, then state
your case. When people stoop to childish name calling it
just shows they have nothing of substance. Are insults
like the above really all that you have to offer?

You give cluelessness a new dimension. "facts"? "errors"?
This is Arnii Kroofeces we're talking about, not a
regular person.

Sorry you have no idea what you're talking about. If
you'd like, I can help you a little:
http://groups.google.com/. Everything you don't know can
be found with some searching.

George, Ethan isn't like the brain-dead golden ears and
borderline schizophrenic SR hacks that you're used to
deceiving.

George, if you point him at those posts that you and your
buddies especially Benchimol cobbled up a few years back,
he's gonna be able to see them for the frauds that they are.
He'll catch your posts that quote my posts with with just a
few words changed, and the really nasty make-believe posts
that have bogus email addresses that strongly resemble mine.

Here's a recent example of the results some of what was
probably Middius' recent coaching of a very weak mind in
alt.audio.pro.live-sound:

"Phildo" wrote in message


http://tinyurl.com/d6s5m

just a reminder, be so kind as to forward this URL so the
church can know they have a pervert in their midst:

Grosse Pointe Baptist Church

George M. Middius wrote:
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com said:

George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of audio
science without insulting the other guy. If you think Arny - or anyone else
on the side opposite yours - is making an error of fact, then state your
case. When people stoop to childish name calling it just shows they have
nothing of substance. Are insults like the above really all that you have to
offer?

You give cluelessness a new dimension. "facts"? "errors"? This is Arnii
Kroofeces we're talking about, not a regular person.

Sorry you have no idea what you're talking about. If you'd like, I can
help you a little: http://groups.google.com/. Everything you don't know
can be found with some searching.


Ethan, to get a handle on the creature posting as "Middius", try this:


http://tinyurl.com/dd3aj


and that's just the tip of the iceberg

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks. Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:13:13 -0400, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks. Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.

Maybe, but I've seen him treat others in a similar fashion...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks. Regardless
of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?



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dickless whined:

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks. Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.

Maybe, but I've seen him treat others in a similar fashion...

Krooger isn't the only 'borg, but he is the worst one.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


dickless whined:

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.

Maybe, but I've seen him treat others in a similar fashion...

Krooger isn't the only 'borg, but he is the worst one.

So Arny's "politeness" has nothing to do with it.

In the end... George is as much a thought cop as Arny is.

ScottW

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:qiQQe.98995$Ep.68247@lakeread02
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at]
comcast [dot] net wrote in message
...


dickless whined:

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a
polite person, but Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum
attacks. Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous
that there is someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down
to his ultimate form -- dust.

Maybe, but I've seen him treat others in a similar
fashion...

Krooger isn't the only 'borg, but he is the worst one.

So Arny's "politeness" has nothing to do with it.

In the end... George is as much a thought cop as Arny is.

George is far more so. However, as a thought cop Goerge is
like a cop that guards a bank, but has no money.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ... For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.

Just Like George and you. I guess that makes it alright then. :-(

Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.

And that's why we know you are a complete asshole.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks. Regardless
of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?


Some years younger than Arnie. His been laying turds for some 58 years.



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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Mikey writes:

And that's why we know you are a complete asshole.


How old does he act, Mike? 8 ???

Cause you're acting like 15.

That's better, right?

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but
Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless
of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?

Let's give Arny credit -- he is hard to grind, but is destined for the
trashbin of history, if not the latrine.

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


The Bug Eater spits out some nasty antenna.

How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?

How old are you?

Are you denying you are a piece of ****?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but
Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?


Some years younger than Arnie. His been laying turds for some 58 years.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but
Arny is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?


Some years younger than Arnie. His been laying turds for some 58 years.


Ooops, George will be all over you like stink on **** for that spelling
mistake.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
news
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
George,

The Reverend ****tyborg is up on his pulpit again, ranting away ...
For
you, "science" is ...

I've stayed away from this thread, and I will again after this point:

I don't understand why some people are unable to discuss the facts of
audio
science without insulting the other guy.

I do not know how George would be if Arny were a polite person, but
Arny
is
not. Arny is well known for his unprovoked adhomineum attacks.
Regardless
of
what you may think of George, I consider it fortuitous that there is
someone
out there willing to take the time to grind Arny down to his ultimate
form -- dust.



How long does it take a turd to disintigrate into dust?


How old are you?

Let's give Arny credit -- he is hard to grind, but is destined for the
trashbin of history, if not the latrine.

Doubtful, that's usually reserved for people like you and George, people
with nothing useful to contribute. Perhaps they'll reserve a place for you
in the hall of shame.

wrote in message
...
Mikey writes:

And that's why we know you are a complete asshole.


How old does he act, Mike? 8 ???

Sometimes he has to dial it back to the level of the attacks against him.


Cause you're acting like 15.

That's better, right?
See above.