I started a topic last week trying to get some help on setting up a
restaurant audio system. With help from the group, I did some looking
around and found the components that should do the trick. I already
ordered the speakers as they came highly recommended and at a very
inexpensive price. I still haven't purchased the receiver or volume
controller yet.

Audio Requirements:
- 12 speakers all playing the same source (celining mounted)
- 3 seperate volume controlled zones (8, 2, and 2 speakers)
- 5 sources
- am/fm
- cd player
- dvd
- cable tv
- pc (mp3)
- all components, if possible, can be mounted in a 19" standard cabinet

- make it as inexpensive as possible while providing a solid system

Here's what I came up with...

Speakers:
- http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-1799086691359/jbl-sp6c.html
- Again, these are already purchased and on their way.

Receiver:
-
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qD8X61m...spi=033AV1906B
- I chose this receiver because it seems to be able to handle my 6
pairs of speakers while producing enough power.

Volume Control:
-
http://www.beachaudio.com/product_in...lsopurch ased
- I'm not sure if I need this piece. This would allow me to control
each pair of speakers individually if I ever needed or wanted to which
may be nice.
- The other option would be to get standard volume controls

Everyone's advice would again be greatly appreciated!!

wrote in message
oups.com...
I started a topic last week trying to get some help on setting up a
restaurant audio system. With help from the group, I did some looking
around and found the components that should do the trick. I already
ordered the speakers as they came highly recommended and at a very
inexpensive price. I still haven't purchased the receiver or volume
controller yet.

Audio Requirements:
- 12 speakers all playing the same source (celining mounted)
- 3 seperate volume controlled zones (8, 2, and 2 speakers)
- 5 sources
- am/fm
- cd player
- dvd
- cable tv
- pc (mp3)
- all components, if possible, can be mounted in a 19" standard cabinet

- make it as inexpensive as possible while providing a solid system

*By far the best method is to use 3 X 70 Volt (or 100 Volt) line
amplifiers. This will allow enormous flexibility and adequate fidelity for a
restaurant situation. It also allows for easy adjustment of the 3 zones. The
100 Volt line transformers allows adjustments to be made to individual
speakers, during and after installation. Using decent speakers and
reasonable transformers (on each speaker) the sound quality will be
surprisingly reasonable. In my setups, it is VERY easy to pick the
difference between FM radio and CD, for instance. Cost will also be
respectable. Here's a few suggestions, based on my experience with such
setups:

If you're using ceiling/wall speakers, choose models which have a small(ish)
bass driver (175mm) and a reasonable dome tweeter. If you're suing box type
speakers, then choose whatever you want, but smaller is usually better.
Smaller and more speakers is the key. You may require the addition of a
subwoofer, if you really require big bass (VERY rare, in most setups). There
are many brands available which will be suitable. Use more speakers than you
think you'll need. This will reduce the likelihood of 'hotspots' and give a
rather pleasant all over, even sound level. Nothing worse than a couple
sitting romantically directly under a single speaker, blasting out enough
level to suit people sitting 5 Metres away! Much better to reduce each
speaker's level, but keeping overall SPL at the right level.

Using several amps provides for a level of redundancy, not possible with a
single amp. Nothing worse than catering that big group of (big spending) ad
execs and finding that the amp has failed, it's 9:00 PM and no one can
service it. With some judicious re-wiring, one of the other amps can be
coaxed into doing double duty. This is easy with 100 Volt line amps.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Hello again Trevor. Thanks for the re-post. I'm still a little confused
as to how these amplifiers would work in the system. Would they be able
to accept my five different sources and switch between them? If not,
would I then also need a receiver to achieve this? Also, would one 100V
amplifier be sufficient to support 8 speakers in my main zone? Here's
some more technical info on my speakers:

Amplifier Power: 80 Watts
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Sensitivity: (0 VU) 88 dB (2.83v/1m)
Frequency Response: 38Hz - 20kHz (-10 dB)
Crossover Frequency: 2000Hz

Again, I've never set up an audio system with so many speakers so I
apologize for my lack of knowledge.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I started a topic last week trying to get some help on setting up a
restaurant audio system. With help from the group, I did some looking
around and found the components that should do the trick. I already
ordered the speakers as they came highly recommended and at a very
inexpensive price. I still haven't purchased the receiver or volume
controller yet.

A poor choice. Follow Trevor's suggestions.
The only area I disagree with is in the use of 70V transformers. This is
standard for PA work; it will detract somewhat from the sound quality of
separate amplifier channels for each speaker, or couple of speakers.
However, Trevor's suggestions are far better than what you came up with.

Receivers are not built for this kind of duty.

In article .com, wrote:
I started a topic last week trying to get some help on setting up a
restaurant audio system. With help from the group, I did some looking
around and found the components that should do the trick. I already
ordered the speakers as they came highly recommended and at a very
inexpensive price. I still haven't purchased the receiver or volume
controller yet.

Audio Requirements:
- 12 speakers all playing the same source (celining mounted)
- 3 seperate volume controlled zones (8, 2, and 2 speakers)
- 5 sources
- am/fm
- cd player
- dvd
- cable tv
- pc (mp3)
- all components, if possible, can be mounted in a 19" standard cabinet

- make it as inexpensive as possible while providing a solid system

Here's what I came up with...

Speakers:
- http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-1799086691359/jbl-sp6c.html
- Again, these are already purchased and on their way.

These seem expensive and don't come with a box? Making the right size
box will be a job. If the ceiling is at least 12 feet high, they might
not beam too badly. I can't find any parameters.

greg



Receiver:
-
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qD8X61m...spi=033AV1906B
- I chose this receiver because it seems to be able to handle my 6
pairs of speakers while producing enough power.

Volume Control:
-
http://www.beachaudio.com/product_in...alsopurch ase
d
- I'm not sure if I need this piece. This would allow me to control
each pair of speakers individually if I ever needed or wanted to which
may be nice.
- The other option would be to get standard volume controls

Everyone's advice would again be greatly appreciated!!

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hello again Trevor. Thanks for the re-post. I'm still a little confused
as to how these amplifiers would work in the system. Would they be able
to accept my five different sources and switch between them?

**Some can. If not, then use a preamplifier, which has the requisite inputs
(which is the way I would and have gone in the past). I've set up quite a
few restaurant and pub systems. If you listen to me (which you have with
your choice of speakers and I approve) then your system wilkl be successful,
good sounding and will offer multiple redundancy. It is this last feature
which you should know is VERY important. How important, you ask? Add up the
receipts for a night's business. Do the receipts exceed the cost of one
amplifier? That should give you your answer.

If not,
would I then also need a receiver to achieve this? Also, would one 100V
amplifier be sufficient to support 8 speakers in my main zone?

**Depending on power output and desired speaker level a 100V line amp can
drive several HUNDRED speakers. Or just one.

Here's
some more technical info on my speakers:

Amplifier Power: 80 Watts
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Sensitivity: (0 VU) 88 dB (2.83v/1m)
Frequency Response: 38Hz - 20kHz (-10 dB)
Crossover Frequency: 2000Hz

Again, I've never set up an audio system with so many speakers so I
apologize for my lack of knowledge.

**NP. Each speaker will require it's own line transformer, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/bnm6c

There are better quality types available, with higher power ratings, better
frequency response and more taps. You will need to do your own research in
your own area.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Here's what I came up with...


Speakers:
- http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-1799086691359/jbl-sp6c.html
- Again, these are already purchased and on their way.


Receiver:
-
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qD8X61m...ew.aspi=033AV1...

- I chose this receiver because it seems to be able to handle my 6
pairs of speakers while producing enough power.


Volume Control:
-
http://www.beachaudio.com/product_in...10120&event=al...

- I'm not sure if I need this piece. This would allow me to control
each pair of speakers individually if I ever needed or wanted to which
may be nice.
- The other option would be to get standard volume controls


Everyone's advice would again be greatly appreciated!!


------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that system is gonna look really nice, and sound really
****ty. Those are glorified JBL computer speakers really, the two
way is gonna have a horrible midrange and brightness, but it won't
sound any worse than any other restaurant. Probably better than most
because at least your are putting some effort into it. and just for
some
light ambience it might be fine, and most people don't care about sound
quality
and it will be stealth looking
and minimalist - I don't think I've heard decent sound in a resaurant
and
wish they'd just turn it off, unless you're a sports bar kinda place,
which is
loud and noisy and it doesn't matter as long as it's LOUD.
Less is more, I don't go to a restaurant to listen to music. I have
been
annoyed a few times by tingy metallic sounding little boxes, these
should be better than that hopefully.

Thanks Trevor...some more questions:

What is the exact function of the line transformers? Can I get away
with NOT using them? Do they replace the volume controls or do they
work in tandem with them?

Also, these speakers don't have backboxes. I found backboxes for them
at about $5 a piece. Do you think it's a good idea to purchase them? Do
you think it would help the sound at all? Here's the link:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=309-131

I think I'm going to take your advice on using line amplifiers too. Do
I need three though? I understand that it gives me good redundancy, but
do I need three?

Thanks again for the input.

In article .com, wrote:
Thanks Trevor...some more questions:

What is the exact function of the line transformers? Can I get away
with NOT using them? Do they replace the volume controls or do they
work in tandem with them?

Also, these speakers don't have backboxes. I found backboxes for them
at about $5 a piece. Do you think it's a good idea to purchase them? Do
you think it would help the sound at all? Here's the link:

The box really needs to be a paticular size and type. Ported,etc.
A sealed requirment will not be as paticular to size. The box also has
to properly filled with suitable padding, The box to the link is likely to
be too small for good sound. The metal will resonate at cetain frequencies,
thats why a proper box will not have these limitations. Padding will greatly
minimize the ringing. There is a link to 70 volt info on that web page.

greg


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=309-131

I think I'm going to take your advice on using line amplifiers too. Do
I need three though? I understand that it gives me good redundancy, but
do I need three?

Thanks again for the input.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Trevor...some more questions:

What is the exact function of the line transformers?

**They enable the speakers to work properly with 70V and 100V line
amplifiers.

Can I get away
with NOT using them?

**If you intend using a 70V or 100V line amplifier, that would be an
emphatic NO.


Do they replace the volume controls or do they
work in tandem with them?

**If you use the transformers and line amps, then volume controls will not
be required.


Also, these speakers don't have backboxes. I found backboxes for them
at about $5 a piece. Do you think it's a good idea to purchase them? Do
you think it would help the sound at all? Here's the link:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=309-131

**No, Not necessary. Furthermore, such boxes will negatively affect the bass
response of the speakers you've chosen.


I think I'm going to take your advice on using line amplifiers too. Do
I need three though? I understand that it gives me good redundancy, but
do I need three?

**Nope. You could do the whole job with one, if you want. I like redundancy
in professional applications, though. Do it with one, or two, if you ahve
some spare cash.



Thanks again for the input.

**NP.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Wow..thanks again Trevor...I'm starting to get it as I do more and more
research.

I found this line amplifier/mixer:
http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--68429/

And these line transformers:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

since that amp/mixer only accepts two inputs, i'm thinking i would need
a source selector box as well.

would this setup work? would it work good?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Wow..thanks again Trevor...I'm starting to get it as I do more and more
research.

I found this line amplifier/mixer:
http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--68429/

**That looks to be the sort of thing you should use.


And these line transformers:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

**That looks to be exactly what you will need.


since that amp/mixer only accepts two inputs, i'm thinking i would need
a source selector box as well.

**Correct. A cheap preamp will work too.


would this setup work? would it work good?

**Yes and yes.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I started a topic last week trying to get some help on setting up a
restaurant audio system. With help from the group, I did some looking
around and found the components that should do the trick. I already
ordered the speakers as they came highly recommended and at a very
inexpensive price. I still haven't purchased the receiver or volume
controller yet.

A poor choice. Follow Trevor's suggestions.
The only area I disagree with is in the use of 70V transformers. This is
standard for PA work; it will detract somewhat from the sound quality of
separate amplifier channels for each speaker, or couple of speakers.
However, Trevor's suggestions are far better than what you came up with.

Receivers are not built for this kind of duty.


Some are.

There are receivers that are stable into 2 ohms.

trevor...

in order to control the volume levels in my three different zones, i'm
pretty sure i'm going to need a volume control box as well. thinking
this (or something similar) should do the trick.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=302-229

what do you think?