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#1
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Dear ppl
I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? |
#2
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Kalle L." wrote in message om... Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? Seymor Duncan's would be an improvement! And mabye some Dean Markley BlueSteel 50-105's break them in a bit and go direct (via mackie-no eq) and ...manipulate in software if you have to (doh). Your strings may be too new (brite/twangy) for your liking as well....(or too old) like dead mudd. Alcohol pads/whipes work for a quickie cleaning or if yer flat broke...boil the strings. No way to mic a cabinet as well? I don't know how the budget model sounds....mabye it will need the pod too...I don't know...I never needed a pod. Mike |
#3
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Kalle L." wrote in message
om... recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20 Is there a reason you're going into the Mackie 1202? You should be able to connect the Pod to the Layla directly. About the only good thing about the 1202 is the mic preamps (which you are not using - the EQ is practically useless IMO) so if you don't use it all I would think it would be better. |
#4
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
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#5
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
A correction:
recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20 I do NOT use the Mackie for recording bass... that's for my vocal chain. What was I thinking when I was writing my post..maybe the pair of Sennheiser MD421's that I just ordered So my signal chain for bass guitar is actually: bass - Bass Pod Pro - Direct Out to mono track 1 - wet out to mono track 2 Then I'll pan both at the center, and try to keep away from Phasing problems (actually there is a inner function in Pod against that). Me not being a full-time bassist is definitely a minus in my sound, I know that. Then again, I don't think that my touch is especially weak... I'll keep working on it. Best regards, Kalle |
#6
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Kalle L." wrote in message om... Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? change the player (not the bass), The result can be very educational. jim eppard (Stuart Spector Design, e&e audio) |
#7
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Kalle L." wrote in message om... A correction: recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20 I do NOT use the Mackie for recording bass... that's for my vocal chain. What was I thinking when I was writing my post..maybe the pair of Sennheiser MD421's that I just ordered So my signal chain for bass guitar is actually: bass - Bass Pod Pro - Direct Out to mono track 1 - wet out to mono track 2 I think one problem might well be that last phrase. Doing anything that involves "wetness" on a bass will lead you straight to mudville. Suggestion: No eq, no reverb, no chorus. Get all the processing off the Pod patch you're using. Work with your fingers at different points on the strings with both pickups on and full up (volume) and all the way bright (tone) until you can get something you like. A *little* compression can make the process a little happier. Better pickups can be helpful. Bartolini's are nice. 'Course, if it were me, I'd get a Precision and ditch the JB, but that's your call. Who would you like to sound like? Myles Then I'll pan both at the center, and try to keep away from Phasing problems (actually there is a inner function in Pod against that). Me not being a full-time bassist is definitely a minus in my sound, I know that. Then again, I don't think that my touch is especially weak... I'll keep working on it. Best regards, Kalle |
#8
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Kalle L." wrote in message om... Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? I know this isn't what you asked, but you might take the pod out of the chain and put a Direct Box in there instead - get a box with two outs so you can still monitor through your pod. You might find it easier to get a good sound out of the bass that way, though I'd suggest upgrading the pickups as that is the primary difference between the cheap Fenders and the expensive ones (Duncans are fine unless you hear something you like better). jb My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? |
#9
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Kalle
ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? I play a 96 American Fender Precision Deluxe. I've tried various methods of recording to Sonar through a Echo Gina 24. At one point I had a Mackie 1202VLZ, but it failed to sound decent on anything, let alone bass guitar. Lately I've been recording bass direct through a Grace 101 preamp. This works OK for most stuff, but not everything. I've also tried running my Peavey TB Raxx pre into a power amp, then into a small 8" two way speaker. I then mike the speaker with a Studio Projects C-1 connected to the Grace. This works great at low volume, but again, not for every song I'm working on. Room acoustics seriously affect the sound quality using this method. Some time ago, I played an American Jazz bass through a Bass pod at my local GC. Listening with headphones, I thought it sounded pretty good. I didn't buy the Pod, but it seems to me that it would work OK going direct into a sound card. I've tried other methods in other people's studios with various degrees of success. One of the best sounds I ever got was my bass through a Grace 101, Samson Servo 120 power amp, an Ampeg 15" Classic cabinet, miked with a Neumann TLM 103 in a good room, into a True Systems preamp, into a Paris system, with an engineer who knew his stuff. You can break out your calculator and figure out what all this gear costs. Moreover, I'm a guitar player trying to play bass. Compared to a seasoned player, I suck. I'm getting better, but I've got a long way to go. A lot of it is in the hands. This point I'm trying to make here is there isn't a laundry list of how to make bass work. You have to try a lot of different setups until you find what you're looking for. Think of it as a quest. Good luck, DaveT |
#10
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
I have a Jazz bass I've played through all kinds of amps; you should be able to
use it anywhere. I don't know about the newer ones, but the Fender tone is very hard to kill (at least from my '71), but if there is a way, DI's probably it. You should probably start with an amp and see how good you can make it sound in the room, then try to go direct. Both pickups up full is a great place to start; that's all I ever use (tone variations come from technique). And lose all the effects. Is your tone control turned all the way clockwise (treble)? I unwired mine. It has only one useful position: full up. Also remember that the bass may sound bright to your ears played alone but keeps its depth when recorded that way, while the brightness just blends right into the mix. Kalle L. wrote: Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? |
#11
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
There are about a gabillion variables: One is that the resonance of
the strings can be muted a little or a lot by picking-hand technique (heel of palm if using a pick, or finger technique if not). I sometimes record with a J-Station as a direct box on top of mic'ing a cab. When I use my Jazz 5 String, I crank all the pots wide open. In part that is because the pick ups are single coil and doing this acts as a hum-bucker. Since you are ordering two 421's, you will have very good mic's to use on a cab. I position my bass cab mic on-axis and (generally) the brighter tones come from the center of the cone, a bit darker at the edge. So move the mic to taste and you can combine the mic'd signal with the D.I. |
#12
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
"Johnston West" wrote in message
om... The weakest link is usually the source. In the case of Bass it's often a guitar player trying to play bass...... (I'm not sayin' that's the case here 'cause I don't know. Do you play Bass regularly at gigs and in the Studio?) That is so true. One thing I do if it's not a strong bass player is turn the bass down in the mix during tracking so they have to play harder to hear themselves. This usually ends up giving a much for stable track than someone who's afraid to pluck the strings. |
#13
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Most of this has been said by other posters, but:
1) Mixing the dry and wet outputs of the Pod is probably a bad idea on bass. Even a little delay induced by the FX side could throw the phase coherence of the insrtument to the moon. If you want to use compression in the recording, that's almost always good, but try to come up with a good sound out of a single output. Add other FX in your mix if you like. 2) The Jazz bass can be very tricky to get a good solid tone from. It tends to be a mixture of highs and lows rather than a solid, mid-heavy tone like a Precision. I think for a marginal player (as you seem to describe yourself) the Precision is a much better choice. I'd seriously consider trading for one. I bought a cheapie American Precision several months ago ($950 at discount) and I'm amazed at how good it sounds. It also seems remarkably well made. Skilled, pro players can certainly make a Jazz Bass sound great, but IMHO it's a much more difficult instrument to get a good, solid tone that will work in a mix from. 3) Bass is a surprisingly difficult instrument for an inexpert player (I'm one of those as well) to produce good tone on. Practice, practice, practice. Bass tone is all about "touch" - the right amount of muscle in each hand. Too weak and it will sound muddy and diffuse, too strong and it will make too many overtones of various, inconsistent kinds. So to summarize: 1) Cut dry or with comp only, in mono 2) Consider getting a Precision 3) Practice your "touch" Ted Spencer, NYC "No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about "Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown |
#14
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Assuming that you have a good player and a good bass a good DI is all
you need. The BSS works quite well and is cheaper than an Avalon or anything of that ilk. |
#16
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Hey,
I'm a bass player working on some recordings with friends on mine and for me the difference was getting away from all the DI's and PODs and using quality amplifiers. I find that the amplifier/preamp you're using affects the tone more than the bass itself. I'm an ampeg preacher myself, and when recording, i use the direct out of my SVT-classic (9 tubes in that bad boy) and i never have to do anything else to the track after. It compresses, it warms, the eq is great, and there's only 6 damn knobs on the thing. Unfortunately the SVT isn't an ideal piece of studio equipment for most because of it's weight, and the fact that you can't run an all-tube amp without the speakers on. (amplifer). So i'd take a look at something like the SVP-Pro (preamp), or the SVT-3Pro Also just a quick note on technique, avoid playing right up at the neck or over the neck pickup. Gives you a full sound, but it doesn't stick out at all. Try plucking solidly right between the neck and bridge pickups (or even a little closer to the bridge pickup) and have the volumes at either 100%neck/100%bridge or something like 100%neck/75%bridge. Hope this helps. mike "Kalle L." wrote in message om... Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? |
#17
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Paul Gitlitz wrote:
Assuming that you have a good player and a good bass a good DI is all you need. The BSS works quite well and is cheaper than an Avalon or anything of that ilk. They ain't cheap, nor easy to find, but sometimes the Evil Twin does scary good at bass DI. -- ha |
#18
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
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#19
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
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#20
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Hi,
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. There were some great comments there, just what I needed. I tried, and by trying to play with my right hand touching the strings more closely to the bridge does a lot to clarify the sound. Somehow I wasn't not comfortable to do that before, cause it sounded too thing solo, but it can actually make the bass's sound come out through the mix more clearly that way. I've decided to get some good pickups for my Jazz bass first, and then consider getting a Precision if I don't get the sound that I want. In my case/level the POD seems still to be a good option...it has a good D.I., but often I prefer the wet output from it. So I believe I have not expored its full possibilites yet. Of course this is money issue too, that's why I'll try the new pickups first. Thanks again guys & happy thanksgiving to all! Kalle "Analogeezer" wrote in message om... (Kalle L.) wrote in message . com... Dear ppl I wonder if there are some bassists here... my guess is there is So if you have time, here's one for you: I've been trying to get a solid, distinctive bass guitar sound for my recordings by using a signal chain Fender Jazz Bass (American traditional-the cheapo series) - Bass Pod Pro - Mackie 1202 - Layla 20, but I cannot seem to find it. Instead I've found out that I don't understand heck about them Jazz Bass pickups and how to get a good sound out of them. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me about of those two pickups, and how the volume pots should work in order to bring up certain characteristics in sound. It seems that I only get my bass guitar sound muddy or an un-clear in the final mix. Believe me, I've turned the knobs back and forth, and tried to find some clarity and punchiness in the sound, but it only comes out flat and muddy. My logic tells me that in general, the neck pickup would provide more softer, full sound (perhaps more suitable for slower songs) while neck pickup gives a more honky soundy (which unfortunately seems to lack lower frequencies). What "settings" do you guys for use for your particular sound? My songs are mainly pop-rock with country influences with many ballads in there, and I play bass without a pick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on how to get a more solid sound out of my existing pickups & other gear, I'm grateful for all the comments. Regards, Kalle ps. Since my bass is a budget model Fender, I was thinking that maybe the pickups are the weak link here, and do not provide sound powerful enough for it to be a distinctive in the mix. Maybe some Seymour Duncans could improve the situation if that was the case...(?) What do you guys recommend? Jazz basses have this weird interaction thing with the pickups, my recommendation is to run the neck pickup wide open, then turn the bridge pickup full up, and then crack it back about 10%. Kind of weird but you actually get MORE high end with the bridge pickup turned down a crack than up fully....the pickups interact. then use the tone control to get how much treble you want in the tone. I like more high end so I run the treble all the way up, but that's me. In general with any passive device though, you get the best tone by playing with everything full up, use further processing (ONLY if needed) to change the tone further downstream....I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me, but that's how I'd do it. Also I think if you use a real bass preamp instead of a POD you'll get a better, more organic tone. I really like the Ampeg SVP Pro, but lately I've been digging a Sansamp RBI that I bought as well. You also can't go wrong with the Alembic FX-1 bass preamp either. Combine a good bass pre with a power amp and a cab and you've got a good live rig as well. Analogeezer |
#21
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Jazz Bass Pickups & their sound
Find a used Ampeg B-15 Portaflex amp. Mic the amp and run a direct.
Work on bass playing technique. Many bassists I've worked with had to adjust for playing in the studio, especially when direct. |
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