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Sync a DAT recorder to a video camera?
Hi all,
We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. Mike |
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#3
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Sync a DAT recorder to a video camera? Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2004, 6:00pm (EDT-3) From: (Mike=A0Silva) Hi all, We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. Mike Basically what you're doing is shooting a music video. Use the track you have as playback through an appropriate amp/speaker. Turn on the camera mic and use that track as your guide track for syncing the good track in post. Eric |
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#6
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Mike Silva wrote:
We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. No, the DA-P1 does not have timecode. All you can do is slate things. Before each take, have someone read the take out and clap their hands, so you can synch the two up together. If all the clocks are more or less the same, the video and audio sources will not drift as they run. You may need to occasionally add or drop a frame on the video here or there at a cut, in order to keep them together, since the DA P-1 will not lock to the video synch blackburst or the camera timecode. On a large production, both the video and audio systems lock to timecode so they can be easily synched up in post. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#7
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Mike Silva wrote:
We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. No, the DA-P1 does not have timecode. All you can do is slate things. Before each take, have someone read the take out and clap their hands, so you can synch the two up together. If all the clocks are more or less the same, the video and audio sources will not drift as they run. You may need to occasionally add or drop a frame on the video here or there at a cut, in order to keep them together, since the DA P-1 will not lock to the video synch blackburst or the camera timecode. On a large production, both the video and audio systems lock to timecode so they can be easily synched up in post. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#8
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#9
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#10
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"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? |
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#11
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"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? |
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#12
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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:40 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote: We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. How so? CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect |
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#13
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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:40 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote: We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. How so? CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect |
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#14
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in
: "Carey Carlan" wrote ... The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video. Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? |
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#15
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in
: "Carey Carlan" wrote ... The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video. Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? |
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#16
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I think you guys are talking two different things here.
Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will give you an uncompressed audio track). Carey Carlan wrote in message . 195... "Richard Crowley" wrote in : "Carey Carlan" wrote ... The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video. Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? |
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#17
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I think you guys are talking two different things here.
Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will give you an uncompressed audio track). Carey Carlan wrote in message . 195... "Richard Crowley" wrote in : "Carey Carlan" wrote ... The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the synchronization/time? If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video. Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? |
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#18
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"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? They are recording/videotaping an original performance. They are not performing to pre-recorded music. |
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#19
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"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow? They are recording/videotaping an original performance. They are not performing to pre-recorded music. |
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#20
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Carey Carlan wrote in message .192...
(Mike Silva) wrote in m: Hi all, We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Making the camera audio be the same mix as the DAT audio will make syncing the two up easier in a video edit system. A clap marker might be helpful too, but simple "phasing" of the two audio tracks will work fine as well. The fun really begins when you want to use more than one camera! Philip Perkins |
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#21
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Carey Carlan wrote in message .192...
(Mike Silva) wrote in m: Hi all, We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. Making the camera audio be the same mix as the DAT audio will make syncing the two up easier in a video edit system. A clap marker might be helpful too, but simple "phasing" of the two audio tracks will work fine as well. The fun really begins when you want to use more than one camera! Philip Perkins |
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#22
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We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. That would make no difference whatsoever, other than to trash the quality of the audio. You cannot get proper sync between any dv cam and an external recorder without hardware sync. It's one thing to get the audio aligned with the video, another again to deal with the drift caused by independent digital clocks. When two clocks are "running wild" they will always drift apart by a matter of up to 1/2 a second per hour, so you have to cut/crossfade tiny segments every 15 minutes or so to maintain sync. It's a PITA, but it's the only way to do it with pro-sumer gear. |
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#23
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We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes). Thanks for any help here. The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be exactly in time. That would make no difference whatsoever, other than to trash the quality of the audio. You cannot get proper sync between any dv cam and an external recorder without hardware sync. It's one thing to get the audio aligned with the video, another again to deal with the drift caused by independent digital clocks. When two clocks are "running wild" they will always drift apart by a matter of up to 1/2 a second per hour, so you have to cut/crossfade tiny segments every 15 minutes or so to maintain sync. It's a PITA, but it's the only way to do it with pro-sumer gear. |
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#24
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"Troy" wrote in message news:24n3d.455859$M95.375805@pd7tw1no...
I think you guys are talking two different things here. Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will give you an uncompressed audio track). Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Appologies for not being more clear. Mike |
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#25
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"Troy" wrote in message news:24n3d.455859$M95.375805@pd7tw1no...
I think you guys are talking two different things here. Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will give you an uncompressed audio track). Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Appologies for not being more clear. Mike |
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#26
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#27
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#28
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"Mike Silva" wrote...
Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Appologies for not being more clear. Just record both and sync them in post. Any decent video NLE application will allow you to slide the DAT audio track back and forth to match up to the video. Many of us do this all the time and find it no big deal. You might have some sync slippage over long periods of time (10s of minutes), but easily dealt with in NLE, at least IME. |
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#29
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"Mike Silva" wrote...
Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Appologies for not being more clear. Just record both and sync them in post. Any decent video NLE application will allow you to slide the DAT audio track back and forth to match up to the video. Many of us do this all the time and find it no big deal. You might have some sync slippage over long periods of time (10s of minutes), but easily dealt with in NLE, at least IME. |
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#30
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"Mike Silva" wrote ...
OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode capability. In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity. I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral recording. Thanks. Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post- production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.) You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song, at least not with any of the equipment I have used. |
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#31
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"Mike Silva" wrote ...
OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode capability. In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity. I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral recording. Thanks. Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post- production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.) You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song, at least not with any of the equipment I have used. |
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#32
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Mike Silva wrote:
Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Over how long a take will you need them to stay perfectly synced? If it's short takes (or short cuts in the final product) you can probably get away with just letting the two clocks run wild. If it's long uninterrupted shots, you'll probably want to try and lock them together. |
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#33
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Mike Silva wrote:
Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound. Over how long a take will you need them to stay perfectly synced? If it's short takes (or short cuts in the final product) you can probably get away with just letting the two clocks run wild. If it's long uninterrupted shots, you'll probably want to try and lock them together. |
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#34
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In article writes: In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Fostex PD-6 http://www.fostexdvd.net/fxdvd_route...6_overview.htm (when you win the lottery, of course) -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#35
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In article writes: In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Fostex PD-6 http://www.fostexdvd.net/fxdvd_route...6_overview.htm (when you win the lottery, of course) -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#36
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ...
"Mike Silva" wrote ... OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode capability. In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity. I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral recording. Thanks. Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post- production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.) You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song, at least not with any of the equipment I have used. OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some understanding of the situation before I had that talk. |
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#37
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ...
"Mike Silva" wrote ... OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode capability. In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity. I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral recording. Thanks. Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post- production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.) You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song, at least not with any of the equipment I have used. OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some understanding of the situation before I had that talk. |
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#38
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Mike Silva wrote:
OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some understanding of the situation before I had that talk. It's not "filming," please. It's "taping." Talk to the post guys and see what they can take. They might be very happy taking a wild DAT, then again they might think you're insane for even thinking about it. If they're billing per hour, they will probably be delighted.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#39
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Mike Silva wrote:
OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some understanding of the situation before I had that talk. It's not "filming," please. It's "taping." Talk to the post guys and see what they can take. They might be very happy taking a wild DAT, then again they might think you're insane for even thinking about it. If they're billing per hour, they will probably be delighted.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#40
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We've done exactly this thing on takes over 30 min and the sync was fine.
Philip Perkins CAS |
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