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Tony Roe
 
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Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:39:26 -0000, (Dave Platt) wrote:

Which will of course have an output dynamic range of less than 22
bits, as with all available '24 bit' DACs...................


Why?


Several reasons. Noise is one.

All electronics generate noise. One type, known as "thermal" noise,
occurs any time you have a resistance - the amount of noise depends on
the resistance and the temperature. If you set the maximum output
voltage of your DAC to a useful standard level (e.g. 2 volts
peak-to-peak, as is fairly usual for CD players and other line-level
outputs), you'll find that the thermal noise generated by the
resistances in the DAC circuitry will be down in the 24-bit region.
If you try to resolve signals smaller than that, they'll be buried in
the noise.

You can try cooling the DAC down with liquid nitrogen, and maybe
that'll get you another bit or two in noise performance, but it's
going to be expensive in the long run.

Linearity is also an issue. In order to reproduce very-low-level
signals with a DAC, the DAC's internal electronics must be very, very,
VERY accurate...


True for the old (pre-digital-audio) successive approximation converters. But,
not to put too fine a point on it, for audio applications with sigma delta
converters (which can be designed with arbitrary output word size), absolute
accuracy is not really as issue - it is mainly noise that limits SNR.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
  #84   Report Post  
Tony Roe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:39:26 -0000, (Dave Platt) wrote:

Which will of course have an output dynamic range of less than 22
bits, as with all available '24 bit' DACs...................


Why?


Several reasons. Noise is one.

All electronics generate noise. One type, known as "thermal" noise,
occurs any time you have a resistance - the amount of noise depends on
the resistance and the temperature. If you set the maximum output
voltage of your DAC to a useful standard level (e.g. 2 volts
peak-to-peak, as is fairly usual for CD players and other line-level
outputs), you'll find that the thermal noise generated by the
resistances in the DAC circuitry will be down in the 24-bit region.
If you try to resolve signals smaller than that, they'll be buried in
the noise.

You can try cooling the DAC down with liquid nitrogen, and maybe
that'll get you another bit or two in noise performance, but it's
going to be expensive in the long run.

Linearity is also an issue. In order to reproduce very-low-level
signals with a DAC, the DAC's internal electronics must be very, very,
VERY accurate...


True for the old (pre-digital-audio) successive approximation converters. But,
not to put too fine a point on it, for audio applications with sigma delta
converters (which can be designed with arbitrary output word size), absolute
accuracy is not really as issue - it is mainly noise that limits SNR.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
  #85   Report Post  
Tony Roe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:39:26 -0000, (Dave Platt) wrote:

Which will of course have an output dynamic range of less than 22
bits, as with all available '24 bit' DACs...................


Why?


Several reasons. Noise is one.

All electronics generate noise. One type, known as "thermal" noise,
occurs any time you have a resistance - the amount of noise depends on
the resistance and the temperature. If you set the maximum output
voltage of your DAC to a useful standard level (e.g. 2 volts
peak-to-peak, as is fairly usual for CD players and other line-level
outputs), you'll find that the thermal noise generated by the
resistances in the DAC circuitry will be down in the 24-bit region.
If you try to resolve signals smaller than that, they'll be buried in
the noise.

You can try cooling the DAC down with liquid nitrogen, and maybe
that'll get you another bit or two in noise performance, but it's
going to be expensive in the long run.

Linearity is also an issue. In order to reproduce very-low-level
signals with a DAC, the DAC's internal electronics must be very, very,
VERY accurate...


True for the old (pre-digital-audio) successive approximation converters. But,
not to put too fine a point on it, for audio applications with sigma delta
converters (which can be designed with arbitrary output word size), absolute
accuracy is not really as issue - it is mainly noise that limits SNR.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)


  #86   Report Post  
Richard Kuschel
 
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Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?


Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?




I think what you are asking is if it can handle a higher input level and the
answer to that is no.

The dynamic range may be greater and the resolution at low levels will be a lot
better.

The main advantage to the higher resolution and dynamic range of a 24 bit file
over 16 bit is that you can record at a lower level with better resolution and
not run into the danger of clipping in the first place.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
  #87   Report Post  
Richard Kuschel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?


Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?




I think what you are asking is if it can handle a higher input level and the
answer to that is no.

The dynamic range may be greater and the resolution at low levels will be a lot
better.

The main advantage to the higher resolution and dynamic range of a 24 bit file
over 16 bit is that you can record at a lower level with better resolution and
not run into the danger of clipping in the first place.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
  #88   Report Post  
Richard Kuschel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?


Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?




I think what you are asking is if it can handle a higher input level and the
answer to that is no.

The dynamic range may be greater and the resolution at low levels will be a lot
better.

The main advantage to the higher resolution and dynamic range of a 24 bit file
over 16 bit is that you can record at a lower level with better resolution and
not run into the danger of clipping in the first place.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
  #97   Report Post  
Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?



Radium wrote:

Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?


Wot - no Soundblaster statement?

Tom


  #98   Report Post  
Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?



Radium wrote:

Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?


Wot - no Soundblaster statement?

Tom


  #99   Report Post  
Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?



Radium wrote:

Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?


Wot - no Soundblaster statement?

Tom


  #100   Report Post  
Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bit-resolution and Clipping?



Radium wrote:

Can a wave file with stronger bit-resolution handle more decibels
w/out clipping than a wave file with weaker bit-resolution?


Wot - no Soundblaster statement?

Tom


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