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JBones JBones is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

I can connect an MP3 player to my home stereo using an 1/8" stereo to
RCA jack, but I'm not satisfied with the sound. The signal seems low
with too much bass. Even when I boost the volume on the MP3 player to
about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the receiver volume much higher
than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input device. I've tried this with
two different MP3 players with the same result. Is there simply a loss
of quality going from 1/8" to RCA? Any suggestions to improve the
sound quality are appreciated. Thanks.

-JB

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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

On 15 Nov 2006 16:56:32 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

I can connect an MP3 player to my home stereo using an 1/8" stereo to
RCA jack, but I'm not satisfied with the sound. The signal seems low
with too much bass. Even when I boost the volume on the MP3 player to
about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the receiver volume much higher
than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input device. I've tried this with
two different MP3 players with the same result. Is there simply a loss
of quality going from 1/8" to RCA? Any suggestions to improve the
sound quality are appreciated. Thanks.


I hope you're using a stereo 1/8" jack plug to *two* RCA jacks?

Doubtless the output of the player is designed to drive a pair of
headphones. This is not a good match for Line In on an amplifier.
Sometimes you get away with it.

But do check first that you're using the right cable. It's a stereo
connection.
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JBones JBones is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

On Nov 15, 8:05 pm, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom
wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 16:56:32 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

I can connect an MP3 player to my home stereo using an 1/8" stereo to
RCA jack, but I'm not satisfied with the sound. The signal seems low
with too much bass. Even when I boost the volume on the MP3 player to
about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the receiver volume much higher
than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input device. I've tried this with
two different MP3 players with the same result. Is there simply a loss
of quality going from 1/8" to RCA? Any suggestions to improve the
sound quality are appreciated. Thanks.I hope you're using a stereo 1/8" jack plug to *two* RCA jacks?


Doubtless the output of the player is designed to drive a pair of
headphones. This is not a good match for Line In on an amplifier.
Sometimes you get away with it.

But do check first that you're using the right cable. It's a stereo
connection.


Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?

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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"JBones" wrote ...
Laurence Payne wrote:


Doubtless the output of the player is designed to drive a pair of
headphones. This is not a good match for Line In on an amplifier.
Sometimes you get away with it.


Actually, the headphone output of most modern equipment
is not a bad match for the average line-level input in terms
of levels and impedance. The major possible downside is
slightly higher noise and distortion but perhaps not noticable
to most regular MP3 users. (No offense to MP3 users, I do it
myself for casual listening)

But do check first that you're using the right cable. It's a stereo
connection.


Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?


Possibly, but likely not worth the effort to try.


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Todd H. Todd H. is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"JBones" writes:

On Nov 15, 8:05 pm, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom
wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 16:56:32 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

I can connect an MP3 player to my home stereo using an 1/8" stereo to
RCA jack, but I'm not satisfied with the sound. The signal seems low
with too much bass. Even when I boost the volume on the MP3 player to
about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the receiver volume much higher
than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input device. I've tried this with
two different MP3 players with the same result. Is there simply a loss
of quality going from 1/8" to RCA? Any suggestions to improve the
sound quality are appreciated. Thanks.I hope you're using a stereo 1/8" jack plug to *two* RCA jacks?


Doubtless the output of the player is designed to drive a pair of
headphones. This is not a good match for Line In on an amplifier.
Sometimes you get away with it.

But do check first that you're using the right cable. It's a stereo
connection.


Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?


Test that cable to verify there isn't a short in there. Try another
cable.

There should be no discernible loss whatsoever going through a
properly manufacturerd 1/8" stereo to Right/Left RCA cable like this.
I use them frequently with portable CD players, my Creative Nomade
Jukebox, iPod, etc.

Best Regards,
--
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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

On 15 Nov 2006 17:22:51 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?


There's nothing inherently wrong with: "Even when I boost the volume
on the MP3 player to about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the
receiver volume much higher than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input
device." Some sources are higher level, some are lower. That's why
equipment as level controls. Why not set the player volume to 100%,
if that's what it takes? That's all a preamp would do, after all :-)

Might the player have a bass boost function? This is common in
portable players designed to drive earbuds. But it should be defeated
when feeding speakers.

Have you told us what model MP3 player you have?
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Jeff Findley Jeff Findley is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality


"JBones" wrote in message
oups.com...
I can connect an MP3 player to my home stereo using an 1/8" stereo to
RCA jack, but I'm not satisfied with the sound. The signal seems low
with too much bass. Even when I boost the volume on the MP3 player to
about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the receiver volume much higher
than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input device. I've tried this with
two different MP3 players with the same result. Is there simply a loss
of quality going from 1/8" to RCA? Any suggestions to improve the
sound quality are appreciated. Thanks.


Stop plugging the headphone out jack on an MP3 player into your stereo?

But seriously, most of the time this will work, but I've found it likely
you'll have to disable any volume limiter on the MP3 player (commonly found
on MP3 players to limit the output to the factory supplied ear buds so the
buyer doesn't lose their hearing), disable any equalization on the MP3
player (which could be the source of too much bass), and turn the volume all
the way up.

Do all of this and you're getting closer to what a line level input would
want, but the headphone out jack is still not a real line level output.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)


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Jeff Findley Jeff Findley is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality


"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
Might the player have a bass boost function? This is common in
portable players designed to drive earbuds. But it should be defeated
when feeding speakers.


A lot of them have volume limiters as well. Some models you can go into the
menus and tell the unit the max volume allowed.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)


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JBones JBones is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality


Laurence Payne wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 17:22:51 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?


There's nothing inherently wrong with: "Even when I boost the volume
on the MP3 player to about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the
receiver volume much higher than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input
device." Some sources are higher level, some are lower. That's why
equipment as level controls. Why not set the player volume to 100%,
if that's what it takes? That's all a preamp would do, after all :-)

Might the player have a bass boost function? This is common in
portable players designed to drive earbuds. But it should be defeated
when feeding speakers.

Have you told us what model MP3 player you have?


But the preamp doesn't eat up my battery charge! I don't have the
effort to run it through the pre-amp, it's just not worth it. I'll
stick to MP3 CDs for the receiver.

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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality


"Todd H." wrote in message
...
"JBones" writes:
But the preamp doesn't eat up my battery charge!


Neither does feeding it to anything other than headphones, including
whatever you're trying to drive. All are going to be high impedance,
low current draw inputs whether they're labeled preamp or not.

High volume setting doesn't necessarily mean you're going to radically
reduce your battery life if you're feeding down stream electronics.


Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of the
amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power depends on the
impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.

I don't have the effort to run it through the pre-amp, it's just not
worth it. I'll stick to MP3 CDs for the receiver.


Does that work through the same cable you're inquiring about?


I doubt it. It likely means he's sticking CD-R's with MP3's on them into a
CD or DVD player that can decode MP3's. Not as convenient as an MP3 player
(e.g. iPod) with tens of gigabytes of storage compared to the 700 MB of
storage on a CD-R.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)




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Todd H. Todd H. is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"JBones" writes:

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 17:22:51 -0800, "JBones" wrote:

Yes I'm going from 1/8" stereo to RCA stereo. Perhaps running the
signal through a preamp first would help?


There's nothing inherently wrong with: "Even when I boost the volume
on the MP3 player to about 3/4 full, I still have to crank the
receiver volume much higher than I do with a direct RCA to RCA input
device." Some sources are higher level, some are lower. That's why
equipment as level controls. Why not set the player volume to 100%,
if that's what it takes? That's all a preamp would do, after all :-)

Might the player have a bass boost function? This is common in
portable players designed to drive earbuds. But it should be defeated
when feeding speakers.

Have you told us what model MP3 player you have?


But the preamp doesn't eat up my battery charge!


Neither does feeding it to anything other than headphones, including
whatever you're trying to drive. All are going to be high impedance,
low current draw inputs whether they're labeled preamp or not.

High volume setting doesn't necessarily mean you're going to radically
reduce your battery life if you're feeding down stream electronics.


I don't have the effort to run it through the pre-amp, it's just not
worth it. I'll stick to MP3 CDs for the receiver.


Does that work through the same cable you're inquiring about?


--
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Jeff Findley" wrote ...
Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of
the amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power depends
on the impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.


It is equally dependent on both.
It wouldn't work any other way.

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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Todd H." wrote...
"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Jeff Findley" wrote ...
Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of
the amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power
depends on the impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.


It is equally dependent on both.
It wouldn't work any other way.


If you're driving a 100kohm cmos preamp from your headphone jack,
your ipod ain't gonna be burning a lot of battery life wiggling that
headphone output voltage against such a light load. It'd down in the
noise next to spinning the hard disk.


So you are saying that the output of ANY power amp
(whether it is the micro-power chip inside an iPod
or a 10KW rock-concert bruiser) is NOT dependent
on the input signal level? Sorry to hear that you have
no control over power amps in your world. :-)

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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality


"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Todd H." wrote...
If you're driving a 100kohm cmos preamp from your headphone jack,
your ipod ain't gonna be burning a lot of battery life wiggling that
headphone output voltage against such a light load. It'd down in the
noise next to spinning the hard disk.


So you are saying that the output of ANY power amp
(whether it is the micro-power chip inside an iPod
or a 10KW rock-concert bruiser) is NOT dependent
on the input signal level? Sorry to hear that you have
no control over power amps in your world. :-)


Funny to watch you guys arguing about completely different things :-)
Did you actually read what he wrote?
(that it may be completely off topic is another matter entirely)

MrT.


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"Mr.T" wrote ...
Funny to watch you guys arguing about completely different things :-)
Did you actually read what he wrote?
(that it may be completely off topic is another matter entirely)


I guess I will have to apologize for attemting to stay on-topic, then.


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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I guess I will have to apologize for attemting to stay on-topic, then.


Abusing someone by completely mis-interpreting what they write, is not what
I call staying on topic, but there you go :-)
Now if you had abused him for throwing in red herrings, you would at least
have a point.

MrT.


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Todd H. Todd H. is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Jeff Findley" wrote ...
Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of
the amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power
depends on the impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.


It is equally dependent on both.
It wouldn't work any other way.


If you're driving a 100kohm cmos preamp from your headphone jack,
your ipod ain't gonna be burning a lot of battery life wiggling that
headphone output voltage against such a light load. It'd down in the
noise next to spinning the hard disk.


--
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Todd H. Todd H. is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Todd H." wrote...
"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Jeff Findley" wrote ...
Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of
the amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power
depends on the impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.

It is equally dependent on both.
It wouldn't work any other way.


If you're driving a 100kohm cmos preamp from your headphone jack,
your ipod ain't gonna be burning a lot of battery life wiggling that
headphone output voltage against such a light load. It'd down in the
noise next to spinning the hard disk.


So you are saying that the output of ANY power amp
(whether it is the micro-power chip inside an iPod
or a 10KW rock-concert bruiser) is NOT dependent
on the input signal level? Sorry to hear that you have
no control over power amps in your world. :-)


No, but that's certainly an interesting take on what I wrote.

My original point is that you're wrong to say that power consumption
of a an amplifier is "equally (as in 50/50) dependent on both" the
volume control and impedance of the load in all circumstances.

So, back to where the original poster I believe said he wasn't going
to use his portable mp3 player to drive his receiver anymore because
he was concerned about battery drain, and I told him not to worry much
about that....

I don't care if the volume control is on 100%, if you're driving so
light a load as a high impedance preamp input on a receiver (generally
on the 10kOhm range or higher), you're driving cmos gates. If you
know anything about electronics, you'll know that driving a cmos gate
(or moving 10kOhms in general) doesn't pull much current out of the
power supply, hence doesn't have a significant effect on battery life.

Unless of course the original 1/8" to RCA cable in question here is
partially shorted (which I suspect). In which case, this would draw
current out of the headphone amp and contribute more noticeably to battery
drain.

Best Regards,
--
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Todd H." wrote ...
My original point is that you're wrong to say that power consumption
of a an amplifier is "equally (as in 50/50) dependent on both" the
volume control and impedance of the load in all circumstances.


The point is that the amplifier can't "push" any more power than
the I/R limits of the source and load impedances. However, it
also can't "push" any more power than the input signal multiplied
by the gain permits, either.


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Todd H. Todd H. is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Todd H." wrote ...
My original point is that you're wrong to say that power consumption
of a an amplifier is "equally (as in 50/50) dependent on both" the
volume control and impedance of the load in all circumstances.


The point is that the amplifier can't "push" any more power than
the I/R limits of the source and load impedances. However, it
also can't "push" any more power than the input signal multiplied
by the gain permits, either.


Which, is true, but still entirely irrelevant to the discussion at
hand (i.e. mp3 player's headphone output feeding a high impedance
input of a receiver).

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Geoff Geoff is offline
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Default 1'8" Stereo to RCA Sound Quality

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Todd H." wrote...
"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Jeff Findley" wrote ...
Most people think volume control as controlling the power output of
the amplifier. As you point out, it's not really since power
depends on the impedance of what you're driving with the amplifier.

It is equally dependent on both.
It wouldn't work any other way.


If you're driving a 100kohm cmos preamp from your headphone jack,
your ipod ain't gonna be burning a lot of battery life wiggling that
headphone output voltage against such a light load. It'd down in
the noise next to spinning the hard disk.


So you are saying that the output of ANY power amp
(whether it is the micro-power chip inside an iPod
or a 10KW rock-concert bruiser) is NOT dependent
on the input signal level? Sorry to hear that you have
no control over power amps in your world. :-)


No, he is saying that the ipod ain't driving the speakers - it's driving the
input impedence of the power amp (or whatver).

geoff


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