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#121
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Frank Dresser wrote: wrote in message Yeah it's false. The ratings show there are at least 20 channels with near-identical numbers of listeners. That's more than a "few" I thought I've heard every possible claim about the Arbitron numbers here, but this is the first time I've heard that a 5.8 share is nearly identical to a 1.9 share. That's not a big difference. 6 months ago the 5.8 station had dropped to 4-something, and the 1.9 station had almost 3. There really is not a huge different between ~5% and ~2% of an audience. Now contrast that with: YOU stated that "the top 2 stations have 90% of the listeners" (or something like that) which is so wrong, it's a borderline lie. |
#122
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
wrote in message s.com... Frank Dresser wrote: wrote in message Yeah it's false. The ratings show there are at least 20 channels with near-identical numbers of listeners. That's more than a "few" I thought I've heard every possible claim about the Arbitron numbers here, but this is the first time I've heard that a 5.8 share is nearly identical to a 1.9 share. That's not a big difference. 6 months ago the 5.8 station had dropped to 4-something, and the 1.9 station had almost 3. There really is not a huge different between ~5% and ~2% of an audience. A 5.8 that moves to a 4.0 has lost nearly a third of its audience. You measure each station over time against itself, first. Like TV shows, some radio stations go up, others bomb or go down. In a market like Chicago, every share point is worth about $7 million on the average. A 25-54 share is probably worth close to $9 million, so a difference of a single share is huge. YOU stated that "the top 2 stations have 90% of the listeners" (or something like that) which is so wrong, it's a borderline lie. He said the top two alone have 10%, which is absolutely true. Frank's point here is totally valid. |
#123
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Frank Dresser wrote:
wrote in message Frank Dresser wrote: And more expenses for the broadcaster. They doesn't seem to be stopping them from adding second and third channels Like WIYY in Baltimore, which has *voluntarily* added Classic Rock and Indie Rock to their AOR primary station. Now listeners of that style have three times as much content to enjoy. But how is the extra programming being paid for? Advertising of course. Plus the money they save because Digital does not require as much power. Plus: If a smaller station can't afford multiple program, then they don't need to do anything. They can just limit themselves to 1 high-quality channel (300 kbps). Gee, maybe if some independant station can't afford multiple programming, they'll have even have trouble justifying buying the IBOC hardware. It's not that expensive. No more expensive than a mono to stereo upgrade for an FM station. 5.1 would be compromised in similar ways. And then the listeners of that Classic Music station would complain, and the manager would have to decide between (a) increasing bitrate or (b) losing customers. Yeah, there's a few stations in which true high fidelity sound would matter. Not many. Agreed. But the advantage of the HE-AAC codec is you don't need a high bitrate to get FM quality. Only 24 is sufficient. At 64kbit/s you get near-CD quality. It's a VERY efficient compression standard. So a station could divide itself into 300 / 4 channels == 64-96 kbit/s per channel, and still have quality ranging from near-CD to CD. People in Canada, Japan, and Australia bought AM Stereo radio in droves. Why? Because there was a single standard, not the 4-way mess the FCC left behind. (It's similar to today's HD DVD versus Blu-ray battle; most people are just waiting to see who wins.) Oh? A great many radios sold in the US are the same as the radios sold in other countries and AM stereo still pretty rare here. Because by the time the U.S. fixed on a standard (circa 1990), the AM Stereo stations had largely disappeared. Thus there's no impetus for customers to upgrade. In contrast, Japan and Canada and Australia had a fixed standard in the early 80s, thus giving consumers confidence that they were not wasting money the next Betamax. I already agreed with you that HQ is not going to motivate people to upgrade. It will be seeing their favorite FM stations split into 3 or 4 programs, thus tripling their options, that will motive people. Are they carrying commercials [on secondary channels]? And I'm sure a fellow as clever and imaginative as you are can figure how they might try to make money even if there aren't enough listeners to sell commercial advertising. Hint: They won't call it "HD radio" I have no idea what you have in mind as an alternative to commercial- support. In my markets (Lancaster, York, Harrisburg, Baltimore)..... Baltimore, huh? Got any friends at ibiquity? Sorry. There are roughly 50 million people living in the Philly- Wilmington-Baltimore-DC "megaopolis". The odds of me meeting someone from iBiquity, by sheer random event, are about nil. HD radio does little to aid the health of the radio industry in general, but it may be harmful to those people who are trying to run a small time low profit station. My "smalltime" low-profit Christian station seems to be doing alright. They happily embraced the new technology, streaming out 3 separate programs. |
#124
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 2, 4:37 pm, SFTV_troy wrote:
My "smalltime" low-profit Christian station seems to be doing alright. They happily embraced the new technology, streaming out 3 separate programs. It's a shame they've never heard about audio streaming on the internet. Could have saved them a bundle and prepared them for the future. |
#125
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
I read once that AM radio in the US was allowed up to 15 KHz, but the NRSC standard, adopted
by the FCC, calls for a limit of 10 KHz. THat's only about a half octave from the 15 KHz limit of FM, and sounds pretty OK, certainly better than rendered by most AM radios. -- Regards from Virginia Beach, Earl Kiosterud www.smokeylake.com Note: Top-posting has been the norm here. Some folks prefer bottom-posting. But if you bottom-post to a reply that's already top-posted, the thread gets messy. When in Rome... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "SFTV_troy" wrote in message ups.com... Earl Kiosterud wrote: I think the USB to which Tom refers is upper sideband. Converting AM stations would mean they'd transmit only one set of sidebands, the upper set, reducing the bandwidth to almost half. More stations could be licensed in the same band. ... But still have the same poor AM sound. Digital offers an upgrade to near-FM quality. As a side issue, the loss of fidelity for which AM is notorious is largely in the receivers, with their narrow bandwidths, resulting in audio that is rolling off pretty fast around the 5 KHz point. (AM stations actually transmit a fairly high-fidelity signal.) How high? 0-10000 hertz? That's not as good as the 0-15000 possible with AAC+SBR. |
#126
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
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#127
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article .com,
SFTV_troy wrote: Frank Dresser wrote: wrote in message Frank Dresser wrote: And more expenses for the broadcaster. They doesn't seem to be stopping them from adding second and third channels Like WIYY in Baltimore, which has *voluntarily* added Classic Rock and Indie Rock to their AOR primary station. Now listeners of that style have three times as much content to enjoy. But how is the extra programming being paid for? Advertising of course. Of course, how obvious. Plus the money they save because Digital does not require as much power. Mr. Digital engineer should know better than to post this. Plus: If a smaller station can't afford multiple program, then they don't need to do anything. They can just limit themselves to 1 high-quality channel (300 kbps). Gee, maybe if some independant station can't afford multiple programming, they'll have even have trouble justifying buying the IBOC hardware. It's not that expensive. No more expensive than a mono to stereo upgrade for an FM station. Really. Just how expensive is it? 5.1 would be compromised in similar ways. And then the listeners of that Classic Music station would complain, and the manager would have to decide between (a) increasing bitrate or (b) losing customers. Yeah, there's a few stations in which true high fidelity sound would matter. Not many. Agreed. But the advantage of the HE-AAC codec is you don't need a high bitrate to get FM quality. Only 24 is sufficient. At 64kbit/s you get near-CD quality. It's a VERY efficient compression standard. 64kbit/s is only just starting to sound good, it's not high quality. Just because you love pixilated, compressed, and distorted in a way you love does not mean other people like it. So a station could divide itself into 300 / 4 channels == 64-96 kbit/s per channel, and still have quality ranging from near-CD to CD. Radio is not a wire connection. I know it hard but think that over. People in Canada, Japan, and Australia bought AM Stereo radio in droves. Why? Because there was a single standard, not the 4-way mess the FCC left behind. (It's similar to today's HD DVD versus Blu-ray battle; most people are just waiting to see who wins.) Oh? A great many radios sold in the US are the same as the radios sold in other countries and AM stereo still pretty rare here. Because by the time the U.S. fixed on a standard (circa 1990), the AM Stereo stations had largely disappeared. Thus there's no impetus for customers to upgrade. In contrast, Japan and Canada and Australia had a fixed standard in the early 80s, thus giving consumers confidence that they were not wasting money the next Betamax. I already agreed with you that HQ is not going to motivate people to upgrade. It will be seeing their favorite FM stations split into 3 or 4 programs, thus tripling their options, that will motive people. Are they carrying commercials [on secondary channels]? And I'm sure a fellow as clever and imaginative as you are can figure how they might try to make money even if there aren't enough listeners to sell commercial advertising. Hint: They won't call it "HD radio" I have no idea what you have in mind as an alternative to commercial- support. There are alternatives. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#128
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
(AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER) PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION |
#129
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 3, 8:55 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH (AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER) PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION Please drop rec.radio.shortwave as well. |
#130
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message news "Telamon" wrote in message ... Plus: If a smaller station can't afford multiple program, then they don't need to do anything. They can just limit themselves to 1 high-quality channel (300 kbps). Gee, maybe if some independant station can't afford multiple programming, they'll have even have trouble justifying buying the IBOC hardware. It's not that expensive. No more expensive than a mono to stereo upgrade for an FM station. Really. Just how expensive is it? I'm pretty sure that the IBOC hardware (and the license to use it) costs considerably more than the $1000 it takes to buy a stereo encoder for a commercial FM station.. For that matter, a pretty good quality stereo encoder can be bought for $200 from some of the companies that supply LPFM and (gasp!) pirate operators. Going stereo on FM doesn't take any modification to the transmitter itself, just a piece of outboard gear in the audio chain. IBOC requires modifications to the transmitter Not necessarily. Some FM stations, like the ones on the Hancock in Chicago, have separate HD transmitters and antennas, and the analog transmitters and and common antenna are untouched. Many individual stations have separate FM HD transmitters and a separately hung antenna. (plus the station loses all it's SCA's.. which are a good source of additional INCOME, especially for small and/or public radio stations.) No, they don't. KLVE in LA has HD, HD-2, SCA and FM Extra. |
#131
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 3, 11:12 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
No, they don't. KLVE in LA has HD, HD-2, SCA and FM Extra. Brenda I've explained this to you before. We have stations in New York that are running two HD programs plus audio SCA signals on BOTH 92 and 67 khz. And the SCA stations sound just fine (for what they are). WKTU 103 is one of those and ditto WNYC-FM 94. You don't lose your subcarriers because you add HD. Stephanie Weil New York City, USA |
#132
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 3, 8:33 am, Stephanie Weil wrote:
On Oct 3, 11:12 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: No, they don't. KLVE in LA has HD, HD-2, SCA and FM Extra. Brenda I've explained this to you before. We have stations in New York that are running two HD programs plus audio SCA signals on BOTH 92 and 67 khz. And the SCA stations sound just fine (for what they are). WKTU 103 is one of those and ditto WNYC-FM 94. You don't lose your subcarriers because you add HD. Stephanie Weil New York City, USA -IF- You go to the Expense of maintaining two 'separate' Broadcast Transmission Systems. ~ RHF |
#133
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
"RHF" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 3, 8:33 am, Stephanie Weil wrote: On Oct 3, 11:12 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: No, they don't. KLVE in LA has HD, HD-2, SCA and FM Extra. Brenda I've explained this to you before. We have stations in New York that are running two HD programs plus audio SCA signals on BOTH 92 and 67 khz. And the SCA stations sound just fine (for what they are). WKTU 103 is one of those and ditto WNYC-FM 94. You don't lose your subcarriers because you add HD. Stephanie Weil New York City, USA -IF- You go to the Expense of maintaining two 'separate' Broadcast Transmission Systems. ~ RHF The expense, once installed, is minimal. |
#134
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 3, 4:35 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 3, 8:33 am, Stephanie Weil wrote: On Oct 3, 11:12 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: No, they don't. KLVE in LA has HD, HD-2, SCA and FM Extra. Brenda I've explained this to you before. We have stations in New York that are running two HD programs plus audio SCA signals on BOTH 92 and 67 khz. And the SCA stations sound just fine (for what they are). WKTU 103 is one of those and ditto WNYC-FM 94. You don't lose your subcarriers because you add HD. Stephanie Weil New York City, USA -IF- You go to the Expense of maintaining two 'separate' Broadcast Transmission Systems. ~ RHF The expense, once installed, is minimal.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Vastly greater than the expense of streaming audio via the internet. |
#135
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
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#136
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article ,
says... "Steve" wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 30, 5:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: Bob Orban, on the NRSC committee, found that consumer radios almost without exception, rolled off by at least 10 db by 4.2 kHz, and passed practically nothing over 5 kHz. That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. The document was linked from one of Mr. Orban's posts on this ng, and is searchable by Google. Go to http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click "AM Bandwidth Study." See Figure 1 for the results. Note that this graph assumes NRSC preemphasis at the signal generator. (Footnote 3) This was the work of an NRSC working group that included me and many other broadcast engineers. Bob Orban |
#138
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
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#139
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
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#140
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article ,
Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , lid says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#141
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon
wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/and click "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CA http://www.bext.com/histproc.htm http://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc. http://www.orban.com/support/orban/askbob/ http://www.261.gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line" http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF |
#142
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Robert Orban writes:
In article telamon_spamshield- , lid says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. Bob Orban Amen! Excellent point, Bob. -- % Randy Yates % "...the answer lies within your soul %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % 'cause no one knows which side %%% 919-577-9882 % the coin will fall." %%%% % 'Big Wheels', *Out of the Blue*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#143
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article , Randy Yates
wrote: Robert Orban writes: In article telamon_spamshield- , lid says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. Bob Orban Amen! Excellent point, Bob. Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that excellence in posting. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#144
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Telamon writes:
[...] In article , Randy Yates wrote: Amen! Excellent point, Bob. Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that excellence in posting. What is excellent is his point that any person who makes unsubstantiated accusations at a known, identifiable person or organization while keeping their own identity hidden is, at a minimum, unethical, and more pointedly, slanderous, spineless, and full of hot air. -- % Randy Yates % "Bird, on the wing, %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % goes floating by %%% 919-577-9882 % but there's a teardrop in his eye..." %%%% % 'One Summer Dream', *Face The Music*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#145
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article , Randy Yates
wrote: Telamon writes: [...] In article , Randy Yates wrote: Amen! Excellent point, Bob. Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that excellence in posting. What is excellent is his point that any person who makes unsubstantiated accusations at a known, identifiable person or organization while keeping their own identity hidden is, at a minimum, unethical, and more pointedly, slanderous, spineless, and full of hot air. That would make you pointless then. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#146
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article , Randy Yates
wrote: Telamon writes: [...] In article , Randy Yates wrote: Amen! Excellent point, Bob. Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that excellence in posting. What is excellent is his point that any person who makes unsubstantiated accusations at a known, identifiable person or organization while keeping their own identity hidden is, at a minimum, unethical, and more pointedly, slanderous, spineless, and full of hot air. I've been around a long time. Here's a link to a brief biography on me. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/telamon.html I would say I'm much better known and braver than you and Bob put together. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#147
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Telamon writes:
[...] I would say ... I'm sure you would. -- % Randy Yates % "My Shangri-la has gone away, fading like %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % the Beatles on 'Hey Jude'" %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% % 'Shangri-La', *A New World Record*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#148
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
I have naught of these contrivances nor would I move a muscle to cut
cheese over them. Hail Atlantis! |
#149
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article , Randy Yates
wrote: Telamon writes: [...] I would say ... I'm sure you would. What a spineless comeback. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#150
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 5, 10:19 pm, Telamon
wrote: In article , Randy Yates wrote: Telamon writes: [...] I would say ... I'm sure you would. What a spineless comeback. -- Telamon Ventura, California Eat me also, spinesucker! ----- Better abuse through science |
#151
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote:
On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! |
#152
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Steve writes:
On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! There's an ancient device known as a telephone that can easily be used to solve that problem. -- % Randy Yates % "And all that I can do %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % is say I'm sorry, %%% 919-577-9882 % that's the way it goes..." %%%% % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#153
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
"Steve" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! When it comes to content, nobody can duplicate one of Bob Orban's posts. |
#154
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 6, 11:48 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! When it comes to content, nobody can duplicate one of Bob Orban's posts.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And do you have any evidence to back up this assertion? |
#155
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
On Oct 6, 9:10 am, Randy Yates wrote:
Steve writes: On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! There's an ancient device known as a telephone that can easily be used to solve that problem. -- % Randy Yates % "And all that I can do %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % is say I'm sorry, %%% 919-577-9882 % that's the way it goes..." %%%% % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELOhttp://www.digitalsignallabs.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, why don't you make some calls and then report back. |
#156
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
Steve wrote: On Oct 6, 11:48 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Steve" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! When it comes to content, nobody can duplicate one of Bob Orban's posts.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And do you have any evidence to back up this assertion? He probably doesn't. Heck, he can't even provide any evidence of his non-existent amateur license. The one thing we know for su David Frackelton Gleason is a pathological liar. |
#157
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Steve" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...gr/robert.html * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! When it comes to content, nobody can duplicate one of Bob Orban's posts. I'll just bet with your experience faking personalities and gall that you have demonstrated that you could do it. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#158
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article om,
Steve wrote: On Oct 6, 11:48 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Steve" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 5, 3:54 am, RHF wrote: On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon wrote: In article , Robert Orban wrote: In article telamon_spamshield- , says... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- ... That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way, that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head. Bob didn't test all the different model radios. He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio processing. Yep, that where you got stuck somehow. Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again. Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously Looking good. This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/andclick "AM Bandwidth Study." Telamon Ventura, California By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what evidence you have that the study was flawed. The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading comprehension. The handle is Telamon. -- Telamon Ventura, California- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Now be nice Telamon, Mister Orban has posted under his own name and has asked you to reply to him : in kind. FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban * A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United States -by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CAhttp://www.bext.com/histproc.htmhttp://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html * Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.http://www.orban.com/support/orban/a...1.gr/robert.ht ml * Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"http://www.orban.com/products/codec/ it's nice to be nice ! RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The fact is, it's pretty well impossible to know when someone is posting under "their own name" on the internet. The only thing you can really conclude is that someone is posting under a name which they intend for you to believe is their own! When it comes to content, nobody can duplicate one of Bob Orban's posts.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And do you have any evidence to back up this assertion? I'm sure he can recite a number of Arbitron statistics to prove that assertion. See the problem with Eduardo is that all arguments begin and end with Arbitron since he supposedly has access to that data and we don't so he can't loose. Well I just re-ran the Usenet reader stats and Eduardo came out on the bottom of believability contour of all posters. The number of people that believe him is below 10% in the 25 to 54 age group or in other words his bombast signal level is not high enough for most to put up with. People will just tune out in favor of a more rational poster on Usenet. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
#159
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
"Telamon" wrote in message ... I'm sure he can recite a number of Arbitron statistics to prove that assertion. See the problem with Eduardo is that all arguments begin and end with Arbitron since he supposedly has access to that data and we don't so he can't loose. Nearly 100% of the viable radio stations in rated markets has access to the data. However, Arbitron only releases the data on 12+ listeners in one daypart,, which is 6 AM to midnight. The rest of the data is copyright and protected for only sales and programming purposes. Well I just re-ran the Usenet reader stats and Eduardo came out on the bottom of believability contour of all posters. The number of people that believe him is below 10% in the 25 to 54 age group or in other words his bombast signal level is not high enough for most to put up with. People will just tune out in favor of a more rational poster on Usenet. You just don't like what you hear, so you make up your own definition of listening, of markets (today's post was a good example) and of the way radio is used. You have no data other than what your megaradio can pick up, and you are projecting your own misconceptions on all radio listeners and this newsgroup. You have a classic "shoot the messenger" mentality about anything you don't agree with. |
#160
Posted to rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.car,rec.radio.shortwave,ba.broadcast
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HD RADIO is no worse than DAB or DRM radio
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... I'm sure he can recite a number of Arbitron statistics to prove that assertion. See the problem with Eduardo is that all arguments begin and end with Arbitron since he supposedly has access to that data and we don't so he can't loose. Nearly 100% of the viable radio stations in rated markets has access to the data. However, Arbitron only releases the data on 12+ listeners in one daypart,, which is 6 AM to midnight. The rest of the data is copyright and protected for only sales and programming purposes. Hilarious! This is just to funny. Well I just re-ran the Usenet reader stats and Eduardo came out on the bottom of believability contour of all posters. The number of people that believe him is below 10% in the 25 to 54 age group or in other words his bombast signal level is not high enough for most to put up with. People will just tune out in favor of a more rational poster on Usenet. You just don't like what you hear, so you make up your own definition of listening, of markets (today's post was a good example) and of the way radio is used. You have no data other than what your megaradio can pick up, and you are projecting your own misconceptions on all radio listeners and this newsgroup. You have a classic "shoot the messenger" mentality about anything you don't agree with. Oh no Eduardo! I have the statistics to backup what I say! -- Telamon Ventura, California |
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