(dansteel) wrote in message . com...
"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message ...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

I'd agree with Mr. Kruegers comments, and would add that over the
decades Ortofon has marketed solid, budget range cartridges like the
old FF15E Mk II which sold for $40 and (if remember the designation
right) the VMS models which went bewteen $65-120. The competitiveness
of these, and the good customer response, was repeated in fairly
regular fashion as the models changed over time. Maybe someone here
has some experience with Ortofon's current afforable products and can
offer input.

I'm using the Shure V15VxMR myself but the Ortofon OM40 is a high
class cartridge. The OM20 cart + OM40 replacement stylus can be bought
today. The OM40 is the recommended choice after tests made by Swedish
Audio-Technical Society. I've been using the FF15 MkII, VMS30, OM30 in
the past, and been happy with these.

T

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.


I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.


Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.


I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.


Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.


I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.


Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.


I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.


Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.

If it quacks like a duck....

I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know?

From time to time I've had at least 5. I have 3 right now.

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain. Cartridge output within a
broad range means very little to me.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT.

IME Grado and Shure have an performance advantage.

The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point.

In the days when vinyl was all we had, there were patents issues.

It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

I've owned maybe 5-7 turntables.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table?

The Stantons that I have in my possession and have used in the past year.

Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.

If it quacks like a duck....

I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know?

From time to time I've had at least 5. I have 3 right now.

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain. Cartridge output within a
broad range means very little to me.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT.

IME Grado and Shure have an performance advantage.

The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point.

In the days when vinyl was all we had, there were patents issues.

It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

I've owned maybe 5-7 turntables.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table?

The Stantons that I have in my possession and have used in the past year.

Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.

If it quacks like a duck....

I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know?

From time to time I've had at least 5. I have 3 right now.

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain. Cartridge output within a
broad range means very little to me.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT.

IME Grado and Shure have an performance advantage.

The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point.

In the days when vinyl was all we had, there were patents issues.

It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

I've owned maybe 5-7 turntables.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table?

The Stantons that I have in my possession and have used in the past year.

Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote

I think that Grado has done a good job of competing with
Shure, who I perceive to be the 500 pound gorilla in this
market segment.

500 pound gorilla ... quack, quack, quack.

If it quacks like a duck....

I don't have a lot of respect for the Stanton line of
cartridges.

How would you know?

From time to time I've had at least 5. I have 3 right now.

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain. Cartridge output within a
broad range means very little to me.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT.

IME Grado and Shure have an performance advantage.

The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point.

In the days when vinyl was all we had, there were patents issues.

It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

I've owned maybe 5-7 turntables.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table?

The Stantons that I have in my possession and have used in the past year.

Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

(Thomas A) wrote in message . com...
(dansteel) wrote in message . com...
"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message ...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

I'd agree with Mr. Kruegers comments, and would add that over the
decades Ortofon has marketed solid, budget range cartridges like the
old FF15E Mk II which sold for $40 and (if remember the designation
right) the VMS models which went bewteen $65-120. The competitiveness
of these, and the good customer response, was repeated in fairly
regular fashion as the models changed over time. Maybe someone here
has some experience with Ortofon's current afforable products and can
offer input.

I'm using the Shure V15VxMR myself but the Ortofon OM40 is a high
class cartridge. The OM20 cart + OM40 replacement stylus can be bought
today. The OM40 is the recommended choice after tests made by Swedish
Audio-Technical Society. I've been using the FF15 MkII, VMS30, OM30 in
the past, and been happy with these.

T


Thanks for adding the OM series to the topic. I was impressed with
many of the attribute of the OM 20's & 30's on our excellent (for the
money ) Harman-Kardon T-60,65, series turntables. I also remember them
doing well on Black Widow, Grace 707, and Formula IV tonearms, as well
as on the budget Connisseur turntables. I haven't metnioned the
Ortofon MC's as I didn't think they apllied to the original poster's
situation, but I really liked my first MC-20.

(Thomas A) wrote in message . com...
(dansteel) wrote in message . com...
"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message ...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

I'd agree with Mr. Kruegers comments, and would add that over the
decades Ortofon has marketed solid, budget range cartridges like the
old FF15E Mk II which sold for $40 and (if remember the designation
right) the VMS models which went bewteen $65-120. The competitiveness
of these, and the good customer response, was repeated in fairly
regular fashion as the models changed over time. Maybe someone here
has some experience with Ortofon's current afforable products and can
offer input.

I'm using the Shure V15VxMR myself but the Ortofon OM40 is a high
class cartridge. The OM20 cart + OM40 replacement stylus can be bought
today. The OM40 is the recommended choice after tests made by Swedish
Audio-Technical Society. I've been using the FF15 MkII, VMS30, OM30 in
the past, and been happy with these.

T


Thanks for adding the OM series to the topic. I was impressed with
many of the attribute of the OM 20's & 30's on our excellent (for the
money ) Harman-Kardon T-60,65, series turntables. I also remember them
doing well on Black Widow, Grace 707, and Formula IV tonearms, as well
as on the budget Connisseur turntables. I haven't metnioned the
Ortofon MC's as I didn't think they apllied to the original poster's
situation, but I really liked my first MC-20.

(Thomas A) wrote in message . com...
(dansteel) wrote in message . com...
"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message ...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

I'd agree with Mr. Kruegers comments, and would add that over the
decades Ortofon has marketed solid, budget range cartridges like the
old FF15E Mk II which sold for $40 and (if remember the designation
right) the VMS models which went bewteen $65-120. The competitiveness
of these, and the good customer response, was repeated in fairly
regular fashion as the models changed over time. Maybe someone here
has some experience with Ortofon's current afforable products and can
offer input.

I'm using the Shure V15VxMR myself but the Ortofon OM40 is a high
class cartridge. The OM20 cart + OM40 replacement stylus can be bought
today. The OM40 is the recommended choice after tests made by Swedish
Audio-Technical Society. I've been using the FF15 MkII, VMS30, OM30 in
the past, and been happy with these.

T


Thanks for adding the OM series to the topic. I was impressed with
many of the attribute of the OM 20's & 30's on our excellent (for the
money ) Harman-Kardon T-60,65, series turntables. I also remember them
doing well on Black Widow, Grace 707, and Formula IV tonearms, as well
as on the budget Connisseur turntables. I haven't metnioned the
Ortofon MC's as I didn't think they apllied to the original poster's
situation, but I really liked my first MC-20.

(Thomas A) wrote in message . com...
(dansteel) wrote in message . com...
"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message ...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

I'd agree with Mr. Kruegers comments, and would add that over the
decades Ortofon has marketed solid, budget range cartridges like the
old FF15E Mk II which sold for $40 and (if remember the designation
right) the VMS models which went bewteen $65-120. The competitiveness
of these, and the good customer response, was repeated in fairly
regular fashion as the models changed over time. Maybe someone here
has some experience with Ortofon's current afforable products and can
offer input.

I'm using the Shure V15VxMR myself but the Ortofon OM40 is a high
class cartridge. The OM20 cart + OM40 replacement stylus can be bought
today. The OM40 is the recommended choice after tests made by Swedish
Audio-Technical Society. I've been using the FF15 MkII, VMS30, OM30 in
the past, and been happy with these.

T


Thanks for adding the OM series to the topic. I was impressed with
many of the attribute of the OM 20's & 30's on our excellent (for the
money ) Harman-Kardon T-60,65, series turntables. I also remember them
doing well on Black Widow, Grace 707, and Formula IV tonearms, as well
as on the budget Connisseur turntables. I haven't metnioned the
Ortofon MC's as I didn't think they apllied to the original poster's
situation, but I really liked my first MC-20.

Powell wrote:

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I'd tend to agree with Arny on this one... the top end detail and sense
of air on the 681 and 881 cartridges are lacking, probably due to poor
transient response. And the separation, especially at higher frequencies,
is much poorer than on something like the AT440. Not to mention the ability
to track wide excursions is not so hot.

But, they are just wonderful cartridges for 78 work, where the huge variety
of styli is a big deal, and where the lack of top end detail isn't an issue
at all.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

Absolutely, and that's why it's important to select the cartridge for the
arm and table, and for the coloration that you personally can live with.
The AT440 will outtrack anything else in that price range, for instance, but
the top end is a little harsh and it requires adjustable VTA to get the
separation optimized. The Grados have a wonderfully lush lower midrange
and good top end detail, but they will oscillate out of control on many
arms because the resonant frequency winds up too high and gets excited by
even minor warpage.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

Somewhere around here I have square wave plots of the 681EEE vs. the low end
Adcom MC cartridges, and the difference is pretty amazing. On the other
hand, the 681 is a great cartridge for evaluating test pressings... if it will
track on a 681, it's ready to ship, but if it can't be tracked with a 681,
customers will complain. Lots of stuff out there will track wonderfully on
an AT440 or the V-15, which will just plain make a 681 skip.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Powell wrote:

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I'd tend to agree with Arny on this one... the top end detail and sense
of air on the 681 and 881 cartridges are lacking, probably due to poor
transient response. And the separation, especially at higher frequencies,
is much poorer than on something like the AT440. Not to mention the ability
to track wide excursions is not so hot.

But, they are just wonderful cartridges for 78 work, where the huge variety
of styli is a big deal, and where the lack of top end detail isn't an issue
at all.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

Absolutely, and that's why it's important to select the cartridge for the
arm and table, and for the coloration that you personally can live with.
The AT440 will outtrack anything else in that price range, for instance, but
the top end is a little harsh and it requires adjustable VTA to get the
separation optimized. The Grados have a wonderfully lush lower midrange
and good top end detail, but they will oscillate out of control on many
arms because the resonant frequency winds up too high and gets excited by
even minor warpage.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

Somewhere around here I have square wave plots of the 681EEE vs. the low end
Adcom MC cartridges, and the difference is pretty amazing. On the other
hand, the 681 is a great cartridge for evaluating test pressings... if it will
track on a 681, it's ready to ship, but if it can't be tracked with a 681,
customers will complain. Lots of stuff out there will track wonderfully on
an AT440 or the V-15, which will just plain make a 681 skip.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Powell wrote:

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I'd tend to agree with Arny on this one... the top end detail and sense
of air on the 681 and 881 cartridges are lacking, probably due to poor
transient response. And the separation, especially at higher frequencies,
is much poorer than on something like the AT440. Not to mention the ability
to track wide excursions is not so hot.

But, they are just wonderful cartridges for 78 work, where the huge variety
of styli is a big deal, and where the lack of top end detail isn't an issue
at all.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

Absolutely, and that's why it's important to select the cartridge for the
arm and table, and for the coloration that you personally can live with.
The AT440 will outtrack anything else in that price range, for instance, but
the top end is a little harsh and it requires adjustable VTA to get the
separation optimized. The Grados have a wonderfully lush lower midrange
and good top end detail, but they will oscillate out of control on many
arms because the resonant frequency winds up too high and gets excited by
even minor warpage.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

Somewhere around here I have square wave plots of the 681EEE vs. the low end
Adcom MC cartridges, and the difference is pretty amazing. On the other
hand, the 681 is a great cartridge for evaluating test pressings... if it will
track on a 681, it's ready to ship, but if it can't be tracked with a 681,
customers will complain. Lots of stuff out there will track wonderfully on
an AT440 or the V-15, which will just plain make a 681 skip.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Powell wrote:

How would you know? I’ve had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers. But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I'd tend to agree with Arny on this one... the top end detail and sense
of air on the 681 and 881 cartridges are lacking, probably due to poor
transient response. And the separation, especially at higher frequencies,
is much poorer than on something like the AT440. Not to mention the ability
to track wide excursions is not so hot.

But, they are just wonderful cartridges for 78 work, where the huge variety
of styli is a big deal, and where the lack of top end detail isn't an issue
at all.

These are all good entry level phono cartridges (Shure,
Stanton, Grado and AT. The manufacturing cost to
employ efficient mechanical to electrical voltage
(transducer) has trade-offs at this price point. It would
be pointless to stereotype an entire product line without
taking into consideration several other issues. Each
has a slightly different voice and variations from table to
table they are installed on can exist.

Absolutely, and that's why it's important to select the cartridge for the
arm and table, and for the coloration that you personally can live with.
The AT440 will outtrack anything else in that price range, for instance, but
the top end is a little harsh and it requires adjustable VTA to get the
separation optimized. The Grados have a wonderfully lush lower midrange
and good top end detail, but they will oscillate out of control on many
arms because the resonant frequency winds up too high and gets excited by
even minor warpage.

Never have, and what I see of their current
cartridge line doesn't excite me.

Really, what empirical experiences are you bring to
the table? Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies? I pray
this isn’t another *you just know* maundering .

Somewhere around here I have square wave plots of the 681EEE vs. the low end
Adcom MC cartridges, and the difference is pretty amazing. On the other
hand, the 681 is a great cartridge for evaluating test pressings... if it will
track on a 681, it's ready to ship, but if it can't be tracked with a 681,
customers will complain. Lots of stuff out there will track wonderfully on
an AT440 or the V-15, which will just plain make a 681 skip.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

Sorry, wish I could. I’ve damaged almost every
cartridge I’ve ever purchased... from $40 to $650.
Recently took out the 881, too. I have a new rule,
don’t let people at parties play with the stereo
equipment. Down to a AT OC9... ticktock,
ticktock, ticktock .


But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.


Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Hehehe... like water off a duck's back, Arny .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

Sorry, wish I could. I’ve damaged almost every
cartridge I’ve ever purchased... from $40 to $650.
Recently took out the 881, too. I have a new rule,
don’t let people at parties play with the stereo
equipment. Down to a AT OC9... ticktock,
ticktock, ticktock .


But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.


Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Hehehe... like water off a duck's back, Arny .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

Sorry, wish I could. I’ve damaged almost every
cartridge I’ve ever purchased... from $40 to $650.
Recently took out the 881, too. I have a new rule,
don’t let people at parties play with the stereo
equipment. Down to a AT OC9... ticktock,
ticktock, ticktock .


But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.


Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Hehehe... like water off a duck's back, Arny .

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I've had 2 - Stanton 681EEE
Mk IIs and they are a good performers.

If they are good enough for you, enjoy!

Sorry, wish I could. I’ve damaged almost every
cartridge I’ve ever purchased... from $40 to $650.
Recently took out the 881, too. I have a new rule,
don’t let people at parties play with the stereo
equipment. Down to a AT OC9... ticktock,
ticktock, ticktock .


But with an
output of 0.7mV they will tax the lesser phono pre-amps,
compared to the 5.0 mV outputs of AT440, Grado Red
and Blue, for example. The Stanton 881 Mk II S
cartridge is a fine performer, too. There have been
occasions where I preferred this cartridge for
transcription work over a MC. The output voltage is
also low at 0.9mV.

I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.


Please state make and model of Stanton
and technical and subjective deficiencies?

You're not worth the trouble, Mr. quack, quack, ...quack.

Hehehe... like water off a duck's back, Arny .

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote


I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.

That's a completely different issue, particularly with Shure cartridges. A
wide variety of timbres are available, if you vary thecapacitive loading. My
Holman preamp has a built-in switch for that purpose. Once upon a time I
built some preamps with a similar feature.

That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading. Stantons
are also less sensitive to cartrdige capacitive loading.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote


I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.

That's a completely different issue, particularly with Shure cartridges. A
wide variety of timbres are available, if you vary thecapacitive loading. My
Holman preamp has a built-in switch for that purpose. Once upon a time I
built some preamps with a similar feature.

That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading. Stantons
are also less sensitive to cartrdige capacitive loading.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote


I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.

That's a completely different issue, particularly with Shure cartridges. A
wide variety of timbres are available, if you vary thecapacitive loading. My
Holman preamp has a built-in switch for that purpose. Once upon a time I
built some preamps with a similar feature.

That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading. Stantons
are also less sensitive to cartrdige capacitive loading.

Powell wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote


I've always had premps with more than enough gain.
Cartridge output within a broad range means very little
to me.

"means very little to me"... I guess we can forgo
any meaningful discussion regarding cartridge
load settings, too.

That's a completely different issue, particularly with Shure cartridges. A
wide variety of timbres are available, if you vary thecapacitive loading. My
Holman preamp has a built-in switch for that purpose. Once upon a time I
built some preamps with a similar feature.

That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading. Stantons
are also less sensitive to cartrdige capacitive loading.

I have an Ortofon DN 165E cartridge in my old Sony PS-X5 turntable.
Does anyone know anything about either of these units?

I haven't used the table in 4-5 years, becuse it's anti-skate control
is messed up. In fact I am really wanting to get an new phono preamp
(my preamps do not have one) so I can listen to the old vinyl, but
finding someone to work on the thing is becoming a problem. I did find
some very interesting info on some affordable phono pres that are out
there ($250-400 range) that are supposed to sound very good.

Tim T

I have an Ortofon DN 165E cartridge in my old Sony PS-X5 turntable.
Does anyone know anything about either of these units?

I haven't used the table in 4-5 years, becuse it's anti-skate control
is messed up. In fact I am really wanting to get an new phono preamp
(my preamps do not have one) so I can listen to the old vinyl, but
finding someone to work on the thing is becoming a problem. I did find
some very interesting info on some affordable phono pres that are out
there ($250-400 range) that are supposed to sound very good.

Tim T

I have an Ortofon DN 165E cartridge in my old Sony PS-X5 turntable.
Does anyone know anything about either of these units?

I haven't used the table in 4-5 years, becuse it's anti-skate control
is messed up. In fact I am really wanting to get an new phono preamp
(my preamps do not have one) so I can listen to the old vinyl, but
finding someone to work on the thing is becoming a problem. I did find
some very interesting info on some affordable phono pres that are out
there ($250-400 range) that are supposed to sound very good.

Tim T

I have an Ortofon DN 165E cartridge in my old Sony PS-X5 turntable.
Does anyone know anything about either of these units?

I haven't used the table in 4-5 years, becuse it's anti-skate control
is messed up. In fact I am really wanting to get an new phono preamp
(my preamps do not have one) so I can listen to the old vinyl, but
finding someone to work on the thing is becoming a problem. I did find
some very interesting info on some affordable phono pres that are out
there ($250-400 range) that are supposed to sound very good.

Tim T

Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

yes, the DJ100 is built "heavy duty" to withstand the rigors of dj use and
the harsh treatment of old 78's.
No, the styli available with a "Grado" are not simply a 5 pack of the same
stylus but rather a full range of different sizes much like those available
for the Stanton 500 but don't cost as much, I got a DJ100 with a 3.5 mil
stylus mounted in a "universal" head-shell for $40 less than the Stanton
(and that was with the Grado cart. costing more than twice the Stanton 500!)
and from what I'm reading here, the Grado is at least as good as the
Stanton. (also, KAB was out of stock and since custom styli come from the
UK, estimate was 10 weeks for a 500 stylus)

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



"chris" wrote in message
...
Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

yes, the DJ100 is built "heavy duty" to withstand the rigors of dj use and
the harsh treatment of old 78's.
No, the styli available with a "Grado" are not simply a 5 pack of the same
stylus but rather a full range of different sizes much like those available
for the Stanton 500 but don't cost as much, I got a DJ100 with a 3.5 mil
stylus mounted in a "universal" head-shell for $40 less than the Stanton
(and that was with the Grado cart. costing more than twice the Stanton 500!)
and from what I'm reading here, the Grado is at least as good as the
Stanton. (also, KAB was out of stock and since custom styli come from the
UK, estimate was 10 weeks for a 500 stylus)

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



"chris" wrote in message
...
Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

yes, the DJ100 is built "heavy duty" to withstand the rigors of dj use and
the harsh treatment of old 78's.
No, the styli available with a "Grado" are not simply a 5 pack of the same
stylus but rather a full range of different sizes much like those available
for the Stanton 500 but don't cost as much, I got a DJ100 with a 3.5 mil
stylus mounted in a "universal" head-shell for $40 less than the Stanton
(and that was with the Grado cart. costing more than twice the Stanton 500!)
and from what I'm reading here, the Grado is at least as good as the
Stanton. (also, KAB was out of stock and since custom styli come from the
UK, estimate was 10 weeks for a 500 stylus)

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



"chris" wrote in message
...
Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

yes, the DJ100 is built "heavy duty" to withstand the rigors of dj use and
the harsh treatment of old 78's.
No, the styli available with a "Grado" are not simply a 5 pack of the same
stylus but rather a full range of different sizes much like those available
for the Stanton 500 but don't cost as much, I got a DJ100 with a 3.5 mil
stylus mounted in a "universal" head-shell for $40 less than the Stanton
(and that was with the Grado cart. costing more than twice the Stanton 500!)
and from what I'm reading here, the Grado is at least as good as the
Stanton. (also, KAB was out of stock and since custom styli come from the
UK, estimate was 10 weeks for a 500 stylus)

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



"chris" wrote in message
...
Hello Ken

I cannot comment on the Grado DJ-100 but to say that ime the grado's
give excellent performance at very low prices compared to the
competition. So I would imagine they are good.
But the Stanton DJ cartridges are designed to with stand the riggers
of back que-ing that will destroy a normal cart in no time at all. If
the Grado are also designed for back que-ing ? then they are likely
to be a good buy.

Chris.


"Ken Bouchard" wrote in message
...
Anybody got anything good or bad to say about Grado cartridges? I'm
considering their DJ-100 because it has five various sized styli
that will
fit it and these cost less than the Stanton ones.

thanks,

--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com



--
1st Class Restoration
"Put your old music on CD"
www.dvbaudiorestoration.com

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure
cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading.

Yes, but it's *SO* much easier to try a few 10 cent capacitors across the
pre-amp input, than to change tone arms :-)

TonyP.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure
cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading.

Yes, but it's *SO* much easier to try a few 10 cent capacitors across the
pre-amp input, than to change tone arms :-)

TonyP.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
That's one of the compare-and-contrasts between Grado and Shure
cartridges.
The Shure cartridges are less sensitive to tone arm mass, and the Grado
cartridges are less sensitive to cartridge capacitive loading.

Yes, but it's *SO* much easier to try a few 10 cent capacitors across the
pre-amp input, than to change tone arms :-)

TonyP.