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sampling differences
When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at
16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? Or does it do something freaky b/c the different sampling rates trip each other up? Obviously, I don't get sampling. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the words I just used aren't even real. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Nat |
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#4
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Nat wrote:
When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? Or does it do something freaky b/c the different sampling rates trip each other up? Obviously, I don't get sampling. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the words I just used aren't even real. The answer is... it depends. What is the exact connection between the two mixers? If it is an analog line (the kind you can hook to an amplifier directly and get sound), then there should be no problem. One extra conversion to and from digital, but it should work. If it is a digital line, then the exact interface makes a big difference. I believe some interfaces can handle resampling data as it comes in, but a lot of them have a problem with it. Your final output will be determined by the last mixer in the chain before the amplifiers. If that's the 16-bit/48 kHz mixer, then that's what your output will be coming from. If its the 24-bit/192kHz mixer (and the mixer is really set to that), then that will be what your output is coming from, but the 16-bit/48 kHz signal won't magically become better by going through that. In both cases, though, the final signal is converted back to analog anyway, so talking about sampling rate at the end doesn't make as much sense. You'll find the 24-bit board has a lot more dynamics available than the 16-bit board, which can be critical. I don't think you'll hear a lot of differences because of the different sampling rates, especially live. However, the higher sampling rate board is likely to have a better signal chain all the way through, including the analog electronics, which WILL have a huge effect on the sound. If it were me, I'd use the best board as the primary board which is connected to the monitors and FOH, and feed it analog signals from the other board. -lee- |
#5
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Nat wrote:
When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? Or does it do something freaky b/c the different sampling rates trip each other up? Obviously, I don't get sampling. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the words I just used aren't even real. The answer is... it depends. What is the exact connection between the two mixers? If it is an analog line (the kind you can hook to an amplifier directly and get sound), then there should be no problem. One extra conversion to and from digital, but it should work. If it is a digital line, then the exact interface makes a big difference. I believe some interfaces can handle resampling data as it comes in, but a lot of them have a problem with it. Your final output will be determined by the last mixer in the chain before the amplifiers. If that's the 16-bit/48 kHz mixer, then that's what your output will be coming from. If its the 24-bit/192kHz mixer (and the mixer is really set to that), then that will be what your output is coming from, but the 16-bit/48 kHz signal won't magically become better by going through that. In both cases, though, the final signal is converted back to analog anyway, so talking about sampling rate at the end doesn't make as much sense. You'll find the 24-bit board has a lot more dynamics available than the 16-bit board, which can be critical. I don't think you'll hear a lot of differences because of the different sampling rates, especially live. However, the higher sampling rate board is likely to have a better signal chain all the way through, including the analog electronics, which WILL have a huge effect on the sound. If it were me, I'd use the best board as the primary board which is connected to the monitors and FOH, and feed it analog signals from the other board. -lee- |
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"Nat" wrote in message
om When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Depends on how you connect them. Most of these devices support both digital and analog connections. Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? Case in point would be one of the Yammy 24/96 mixers running at 24/96 driving an ADAT-format 8 channel analog interface which is running at 24/48. Yes, the 24/96 is effectively *dumbed down*. However, the ultimate "dumbing-down" happens at the input to the 24/96 mixer, where it receives input from real microphones in real rooms. It happens again at the output, where the 24/48 digital signal is sent to a real loudspeaker in another real room. While 24 bits is capable of like 144 dB dynamic range, real rooms and by extension real world recordings are hard pressed to significantly (i.e., 10 dB) exceed 72 dB dynamic range. For example, a quiet residential room will have a noise floor of about 40 dB SPL. Add 72 dB and now you are at 112 dB, just 3 dB shy of the OSHA legal limit for SPL exposure of any length. |
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"Nat" wrote in message
om When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Depends on how you connect them. Most of these devices support both digital and analog connections. Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? Case in point would be one of the Yammy 24/96 mixers running at 24/96 driving an ADAT-format 8 channel analog interface which is running at 24/48. Yes, the 24/96 is effectively *dumbed down*. However, the ultimate "dumbing-down" happens at the input to the 24/96 mixer, where it receives input from real microphones in real rooms. It happens again at the output, where the 24/48 digital signal is sent to a real loudspeaker in another real room. While 24 bits is capable of like 144 dB dynamic range, real rooms and by extension real world recordings are hard pressed to significantly (i.e., 10 dB) exceed 72 dB dynamic range. For example, a quiet residential room will have a noise floor of about 40 dB SPL. Add 72 dB and now you are at 112 dB, just 3 dB shy of the OSHA legal limit for SPL exposure of any length. |
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#10
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Nat wrote:
When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Absolute silence. The clocks don't lock up at all. Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? No, but you can either set your first mixer to downsample to a lower rate, or you can put a sample rate converter between the two in order to convert to the lower rate. But rate conversion in general is a bad thing, and it is usually much better just to run everything off of the same clock as much as possible. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#11
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Nat wrote:
When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Absolute silence. The clocks don't lock up at all. Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? No, but you can either set your first mixer to downsample to a lower rate, or you can put a sample rate converter between the two in order to convert to the lower rate. But rate conversion in general is a bad thing, and it is usually much better just to run everything off of the same clock as much as possible. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#12
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Mike Rivers wrote:
RTFM! Yeah, but Mike -- not all the manuals are written as well as yours! grin -lee- |
#13
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Mike Rivers wrote:
RTFM! Yeah, but Mike -- not all the manuals are written as well as yours! grin -lee- |
#14
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What I have got is a Behringer Eurorack UB 502. It advertises "130 dB
dynamic range for 24-bit, 192 kHz sampling rate inputs," but there are no digital ins or outs on the mixer, just analog. But for that advertisement, I'd assume I could run mics into it and run it into my 16, 48 mixer's analog ins with no problems. I'm just not sure what that advertisement means. Is it just saying that it's a real good analog mixer so that if you are using 24, 192 sampling in your recording, it will let you fully appreciate that sampling rate? If that's the case, then I don't need to worry about this, no? And if that's the case, then this was a bad question. Sorry. It never fails to amaze me how helpful everyone is. I really appreciate it and feel kinda bad that I don't have any knowledge to give back. Nat (Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ... Nat wrote: When you hook a mixer sampling at 24-bit, 192 kHz to one sampling at 16-bit, 48 kHz, what happens? Absolute silence. The clocks don't lock up at all. Does everything just get dumbed-down to 16, 48 so your final output is at 16, 48 (assuming input to 24 mixer to 16 mixer to monitors)? No, but you can either set your first mixer to downsample to a lower rate, or you can put a sample rate converter between the two in order to convert to the lower rate. But rate conversion in general is a bad thing, and it is usually much better just to run everything off of the same clock as much as possible. --scott |
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