Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Hello,
I'm trying to create a vocal narration outboard setup that has good sound quality, a small amount of components, and reasonable cost. I have a usb mic/headset right now. While the convenience is unbeatable, I notice that there is a perceptible amount of distortion in the audio capture (it's a Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000). This has nothing to do with level setting or mic placement. Believe me, I went through the options on this. It's not that the distortion is terrible, but it's not like a super clean Millennia setup. I can't even seem to find the specs as to whether it is recording at 16bit/ 44.1 or 16bit/22.5, etc. The consumer stuff out there doesn't seem to publish many of the specs that matter. I've been looking at some basic ($300 and under) usb mics for podcasting. This has brought me to three mics: Rode Podcaster, Blue Yeti, Audio Technica 2020usb. There is also the sE Electronics USB2200a at a higher price point of $400. The Yeti is the only one of the four that has anything resembling gain- staging: it has an analog input attenuator knob. I know you typically want a strong clear analog signal that hits the converter. For these mics, if you are speaking at normal volume, you might not be climbing anywhere near fully through the A-D ladder before it gets converter to the digital USB signal. The Yeti Pro also has 24/192khz specs. It seems like most of these budget usb mics are 16 bit, if they bother to publish the specs at all. The other idea is to get a small usb converter box and run a good mic like a Shure SM7b. But then the cost and complexity rises. My speaking voice has a lot of midrange, but cleans up nicely with a simple, wide-q eq drop of a few db centered around the 2k range. I'll be using this setup for turning out a lot of podcast-type work, rather than trying to create an epic rock album. So being able to work quickly is important. I'd be looking to do the basic recording, do a mild eq drop and a little limiting on the range, set the peak to minus 3dbfs, and then be done. I don't need "the best sound ever". But a step up from the sub-$30 usb headset sound (particularly in the levels of distortion). would be nice. I know all about the really expensive brands with discrete components. But then I would end up having this giant setup, when I'm really looking to just hang out with notebook computer and do some quality podcasting. On the other hand, having a good analog channel strip with the eq set to my voice ahead of time will save me time over the long run because I won't have to play around with eq in the computer after the fact. It's always a tradeoff, right? Maybe I am over-emphasizing the drawback of not being able to gain- stage the a-d ladder. If so, maybe an all-in-one USB mic will be the right choice for me. There's a lot of different routes to take with this. So if anybody has any ideas that could help sensibly narrow the selection process, that would be great. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/21/2011 9:11 PM, joe h wrote:
Hello, I'm trying to create a vocal narration outboard setup that has good sound quality, a small amount of components, and reasonable cost. I have a usb mic/headset right now. While the convenience is unbeatable, I notice that there is a perceptible amount of distortion in the audio capture (it's a Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000). This has nothing to do with level setting or mic placement. Believe me, I went through the options on this. It's not that the distortion is terrible, but it's not like a super clean Millennia setup. I can't even seem to find the specs as to whether it is recording at 16bit/ 44.1 or 16bit/22.5, etc. The consumer stuff out there doesn't seem to publish many of the specs that matter. I've been looking at some basic ($300 and under) usb mics for podcasting. This has brought me to three mics: Rode Podcaster, Blue Yeti, Audio Technica 2020usb. There is also the sE Electronics USB2200a at a higher price point of $400. The Yeti is the only one of the four that has anything resembling gain- staging: it has an analog input attenuator knob. I know you typically want a strong clear analog signal that hits the converter. For these mics, if you are speaking at normal volume, you might not be climbing anywhere near fully through the A-D ladder before it gets converter to the digital USB signal. The Yeti Pro also has 24/192khz specs. It seems like most of these budget usb mics are 16 bit, if they bother to publish the specs at all. The other idea is to get a small usb converter box and run a good mic like a Shure SM7b. But then the cost and complexity rises. My speaking voice has a lot of midrange, but cleans up nicely with a simple, wide-q eq drop of a few db centered around the 2k range. I'll be using this setup for turning out a lot of podcast-type work, rather than trying to create an epic rock album. So being able to work quickly is important. I'd be looking to do the basic recording, do a mild eq drop and a little limiting on the range, set the peak to minus 3dbfs, and then be done. I don't need "the best sound ever". But a step up from the sub-$30 usb headset sound (particularly in the levels of distortion). would be nice. I know all about the really expensive brands with discrete components. But then I would end up having this giant setup, when I'm really looking to just hang out with notebook computer and do some quality podcasting. On the other hand, having a good analog channel strip with the eq set to my voice ahead of time will save me time over the long run because I won't have to play around with eq in the computer after the fact. It's always a tradeoff, right? Maybe I am over-emphasizing the drawback of not being able to gain- stage the a-d ladder. If so, maybe an all-in-one USB mic will be the right choice for me. There's a lot of different routes to take with this. So if anybody has any ideas that could help sensibly narrow the selection process, that would be great. Try a Heil PR40 with a Blue Icicle or Shure X2U XLR-to-USB converter. There are many options for what you want to do, but this one is as close to universal as you can get. You obviously know that not every mic works well on every voice, but the Heil PR40 is currently the "podcasters' choice", whatever that means. Then again, if you get the USB converter and a Heil PR20 or an AKG D880, you'll save a lot of money, and you may get what you want. The best solution is to find someone that will let you try to mics, and you get to pick the one you want. The XLR converters are not Avalon mic pres, but they're great for what they cost. My choice for absolute lowest cost would be the PR20UT ($99) and the Blue Icicle ($40). If you go this route, don't plug the converter directly into the mic. Use an XLR cable. If you have to do any processing, you can do it in post. Unless you have a room with great acoustics, I wouldn't use a condenser mic. While the quality of your voice may be better with a condenser, you're probably going to hear more of the room. For voice-only podcasting, that's not desirable. I also bought a dbx 286s voice processor. If you're room is not too bad, the gate can be set very low, and it can provide a good result for the application. If your room is very noisy, the gate has trouble differentiating the background from the foreground. In that case, you'll clearly hear the gate working, which is no good. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
thanks for the info about the Heil. I remember the Heil talkbox.
maybe the ghost of peter frampton lives on! |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/21/2011 9:11 PM, joe h wrote:
I'm trying to create a vocal narration outboard setup that has good sound quality, a small amount of components, and reasonable cost. I have a usb mic/headset right now. While the convenience is unbeatable, I notice that there is a perceptible amount of distortion in the audio capture (it's a Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000). That's designed for on-line conversation so it's optimized for clarity, not necessarily pleasantness. You can indeed do better for your project by getting a better quality mic. But the mic (unless you haven't told us everything yet) shouldn't be the only thing in your investment plan. You need a decent acoustical environment as well. The best mic in the world will still sound unpleasant in the wrong environment. You don't need to buy or build a serious vocal booth unless you're making serious money from your voice, but there are some gadgets and treatment that you should also be looking at so that you can get the performance that you're paying for with a better mic. A better acoustical environment probably won't help your headset mic because it's designed for close-talking and suppresses ambient sound, but with a good mic, you can back off and get a more balanced version of your voice as long as it's not corrupted from reflections. I've been looking at some basic ($300 and under) usb mics for podcasting. This has brought me to three mics: Rode Podcaster, Blue Yeti, Audio Technica 2020usb. There is also the sE Electronics USB2200a at a higher price point of $400. Blue makes quality products, as does Rode and Audio Technica. Samson and MXL also have some decent mics of this type, some incorporating some gain control (either continuous or switched to get into the right ballpark) and some incorporating monitoring with headphones. If you want to hear yourself on phones while you're recording (most voice talent does) you'll want to be sure that the monitoring gives you a direct analog path from the mic that doesn't go through the computer first before it gets to your headphones. The typical approach to this design is with a control on the mic that allows you to adjust the balance between the direct mic output and the computer output. This is useful for people using the mic for studio work so they can do overdubs, but you'll probably want to listen to your playback on speakers for evaluation and editing. The other idea is to get a small usb converter box and run a good mic like a Shure SM7b. But then the cost and complexity rises. That can work. I have a CEntrance MicPort Pro that works fine. I'm sure the Shure equivalent does, as well. It gives you the interface to the computer, both going and coming, and also gives you the freedom to choose the mic that suits your voice and your budget. having a good analog channel strip with the eq set to my voice ahead of time will save me time over the long run because I won't have to play around with eq in the computer after the fact. It's always a tradeoff, right? I certainly haven't seen everything, and I certainly don't remember everything I've seen, but I don't recall seeing a modestly priced channel strip with USB output. Even if you found one, it's difficult to EQ your own voice while you're listening on headphones. You're probably better off planning to do a pass through the computer before shipping out your piece. Once you get accustomed to the mic and the space you're working in, you can probably come up with a standard EQ curve that you can use as a preset to process everything. Maybe add some compression as well. You probalby don't want to get too fussy, but you might want to do some editing as well. Maybe I am over-emphasizing the drawback of not being able to gain- stage the a-d ladder. If so, maybe an all-in-one USB mic will be the right choice for me. I think that most of the designers of this sort of product want to make it as simple as possible for the user because they don't want to have to explain and teach stuff like that. So they make it so that it'll work for the hip-hop poet who works with the mic right up to his lips, the rock singer who screams like he does on stage, and the podcaster who will find a way that works. Getting a proper record level is always a good idea, and it's important if you're broadcasting live. Its importance, though, depends on your workflow and the basic quality of the audio chain. If you're recording with 24-bit resolution you can easily amplify by 20 dB without digital problems, but you don't want to amplify noise from a crummy mic input stage (that you can't do anything about). So the value of some sort of gain control at the mic depends on how it's implemented. And that's something that you usually can't determine from the spec sheets. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
... On 8/21/2011 9:11 PM, joe h wrote: I'm trying to create a vocal narration outboard setup that has good sound quality, a small amount of components, and reasonable cost. I have a usb mic/headset right now. While the convenience is unbeatable, I notice that there is a perceptible amount of distortion in the audio capture (it's a Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000). That's designed for on-line conversation so it's optimized for clarity, not necessarily pleasantness. You can indeed do better for your project by getting a better quality mic. But the mic (unless you haven't told us everything yet) shouldn't be the only thing in your investment plan. You need a decent acoustical environment as well. The best mic in the world will still sound unpleasant in the wrong environment. You don't need to buy or build a serious vocal booth unless you're making serious money from your voice, but there are some gadgets and treatment that you should also be looking at so that you can get the performance that you're paying for with a better mic. A better acoustical environment probably won't help your headset mic because it's designed for close-talking and suppresses ambient sound, but with a good mic, you can back off and get a more balanced version of your voice as long as it's not corrupted from reflections. I've been looking at some basic ($300 and under) usb mics for podcasting. This has brought me to three mics: Rode Podcaster, Blue Yeti, Audio Technica 2020usb. There is also the sE Electronics USB2200a at a higher price point of $400. Blue makes quality products, as does Rode and Audio Technica. Samson and MXL also have some decent mics of this type, some incorporating some gain control (either continuous or switched to get into the right ballpark) and some incorporating monitoring with headphones. If you want to hear yourself on phones while you're recording (most voice talent does) you'll want to be sure that the monitoring gives you a direct analog path from the mic that doesn't go through the computer first before it gets to your headphones. The typical approach to this design is with a control on the mic that allows you to adjust the balance between the direct mic output and the computer output. This is useful for people using the mic for studio work so they can do overdubs, but you'll probably want to listen to your playback on speakers for evaluation and editing. The other idea is to get a small usb converter box and run a good mic like a Shure SM7b. But then the cost and complexity rises. That can work. I have a CEntrance MicPort Pro that works fine. I'm sure the Shure equivalent does, as well. It gives you the interface to the computer, both going and coming, and also gives you the freedom to choose the mic that suits your voice and your budget. having a good analog channel strip with the eq set to my voice ahead of time will save me time over the long run because I won't have to play around with eq in the computer after the fact. It's always a tradeoff, right? I certainly haven't seen everything, and I certainly don't remember everything I've seen, but I don't recall seeing a modestly priced channel strip with USB output. Even if you found one, it's difficult to EQ your own voice while you're listening on headphones. You're probably better off planning to do a pass through the computer before shipping out your piece. Once you get accustomed to the mic and the space you're working in, you can probably come up with a standard EQ curve that you can use as a preset to process everything. Maybe add some compression as well. You probalby don't want to get too fussy, but you might want to do some editing as well. Maybe I am over-emphasizing the drawback of not being able to gain- stage the a-d ladder. If so, maybe an all-in-one USB mic will be the right choice for me. I think that most of the designers of this sort of product want to make it as simple as possible for the user because they don't want to have to explain and teach stuff like that. So they make it so that it'll work for the hip-hop poet who works with the mic right up to his lips, the rock singer who screams like he does on stage, and the podcaster who will find a way that works. Getting a proper record level is always a good idea, and it's important if you're broadcasting live. Its importance, though, depends on your workflow and the basic quality of the audio chain. If you're recording with 24-bit resolution you can easily amplify by 20 dB without digital problems, but you don't want to amplify noise from a crummy mic input stage (that you can't do anything about). So the value of some sort of gain control at the mic depends on how it's implemented. And that's something that you usually can't determine from the spec sheets. I, too, am a big fan of the MicPort Pro. It has a gain control for the mic pre section of the device, a beefy headphone output for both the microphone and playback from the computer, as well as phantom power for condenser microphones. Another poster suggested that dynamic mics might be better for accoustically challanged spaces. I disagree. I think that the pattern of the mic - wide/narrow - has more to do with how a mic behaves in reverberent spaces. If I were you, I'd combine a micport pro from B & H Photo @ $149, an XLR cable of suitable length, about $20, and a MCA SP1 condenser mic from B & H Photo @ $45.50. Don't let the low prices scare you. The MicPort Pro is a very, very decent mic preamp/USB AD/DA convertor and the SP1 mic is a real sleeper. It has a relatively flat frequency response that should be a good match for your voice unlike many VO mics that have mid-range boost built in. Of course, there are many other ways to go, but for Podcast use the above are the choices I would make. By the way I own and use the equipment above, so my opinion is based on experience. I use the identical kit as part of my travel equipment. A lot of voice-overs recorded in hotel rooms using it have gone on broadcast TV with no complaints ever. Steve King |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Thanks guys for the info on the CEntrance MicPort Pro. I had never
even heard of it before. It's like the Blue Icicle, but better. It's got two key features that you want: a high sample/bit rate and a gain control knob. That could be a really good way to go. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:46:46 -0400, joe h wrote
(in article ): Thanks guys for the info on the CEntrance MicPort Pro. I had never even heard of it before. It's like the Blue Icicle, but better. It's got two key features that you want: a high sample/bit rate and a gain control knob. That could be a really good way to go. Mic Port Pro (24/96) is very good. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On Aug 22, 2:11*am, joe h wrote:
There's a lot of different routes to take with this. *So if anybody has any ideas that could help sensibly narrow the selection process, that would be great. Joe I do a lot of YouTube stuff and find that the Monacor DM-500USB mic. is totally stunning. For voiceover stuff it is quite amazing ... it is subtlely enhanced for warmth and just good talking quality. I have been recommending this now for six months to anyone who will listen. At circa £30 from Studiospares.com it is a steal. It goes straight into my Mac and IMovies ... Of course, the room ambience is all important. I am lucky to have amazing vocal/intrument acoustics in my studio. Dec [Cluskey] http://www.deccluskey.co.uk/blog |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/22/2011 11:43 AM, Steve King wrote:
I, too, am a big fan of the MicPort Pro. It has a gain control for the mic pre section of the device, a beefy headphone output for both the microphone and playback from the computer, as well as phantom power for condenser microphones. Yes the $140 MicPort Pro is a great little unit. It definitely has more features than the $35 Blue Icicle. Another poster suggested that dynamic mics might be better for acoustically challenged spaces. I disagree. I think that the pattern of the mic - wide/narrow - has more to do with how a mic behaves in reverberant spaces. Whatever the reason, whether it by the type of element or the pattern of the mic, we're getting better results with dynamics than with condensers. I was in denial until someone with significantly less audio experience proved it to me. If I were you, I'd combine a micport pro from B & H Photo @ $149, an XLR cable of suitable length, about $20, and a MCA SP1 condenser mic from B & H Photo @ $45.50. Don't let the low prices scare you. The MicPort Pro is a very, very decent mic preamp/USB AD/DA convertor and the SP1 mic is a real sleeper. We bought four MCA SP1s for podcasting. I wish we hadn't done it. As you say, they are more than worth the purchase price, but they're just not the right mic for our application. The acoustics in the podcasting studio are not good. Guests who are not naturally mic savvy are not good at working the mics. They understand where to talk into a PR20, but they often move away from the sweet spot on the side-address condenser mics. It has a relatively flat frequency response that should be a good match for your voice unlike many VO mics that have mid-range boost built in. Of course, there are many other ways to go, but for Podcast use the above are the choices I would make. By the way I own and use the equipment above, so my opinion is based on experience. I use the identical kit as part of my travel equipment. A lot of voice-overs recorded in hotel rooms using it have gone on broadcast TV with no complaints ever. As with all equipment recommendations, opinions differ. That's what makes this stuff so much fun. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"joe h" wrote in message ... Hello, I'm trying to create a vocal narration outboard setup that has good sound quality, a small amount of components, and reasonable cost. I have a usb mic/headset right now. While the convenience is unbeatable, I notice that there is a perceptible amount of distortion in the audio capture (it's a Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000). This has nothing to do with level setting or mic placement. Believe me, I went through the options on this. It's not that the distortion is terrible, but it's not like a super clean Millennia setup. It is also not like any halfways competent mic/converter setup. As you subsequently allude to, the presence of some kind of analog volume control and adequate dynamic range in the microphone itself are key factors. We usually take that for granted. For example, my standard laptop/field mic setup is composed of a Rolls MP13 mic preamp and a Behringer UCA 202 USB interface. Nets out for less than $100. When used with a mic with adequate dynamic range for general purposes (of which I have several dozen) it meets all reasonable requirements. I can't even seem to find the specs as to whether it is recording at 16bit/ 44.1 or 16bit/22.5, etc. If the product doesn't come with a driver disc or download, its depending on the standard USB drivers for Windows or Mac, which are 16/44. That's more than enough for a first rate result. The consumer stuff out there doesn't seem to publish many of the specs that matter. Ditto for much of the alleged "pro" suff including the Blue Icicle and the AT 2020 USB. Both vendors should know better. I've been looking at some basic ($300 and under) usb mics for podcasting. This has brought me to three mics: Rode Podcaster, Blue Yeti, Audio Technica 2020usb. There is also the sE Electronics USB2200a at a higher price point of $400. If I was going to pick one blind, I'd go with the AT 2020 because I already have a couple of them and IME they are really good general purpose mics. The Yeti is the only one of the four that has anything resembling gain- staging: it has an analog input attenuator knob. Your apparent presumption that no physical knob = no analog gain control could but not necessrily is a rush to judgement. If you further assumed that no physical knob *and* no special driver = no analog gain control, then that would be very reasonable. I know you typically want a strong clear analog signal that hits the converter. Well, the problems you are experiencing my be due to too much signal hitting the converter. Or, the cheap electret element that your current mic using could be running out of dynamic range all by itself. This begs the question of what you've been doing with the microphone wand of the Lifechat to move it away from your mouth. If its wand isn't bendable enough as it is, you do have access to a heat source to soften the plastic, right? For these mics, if you are speaking at normal volume, you might not be climbing anywhere near fully through the A-D ladder before it gets converter to the digital USB signal. Rule of thumb is that the greatest source of noise is ambient. I seriously hope that you understand that the problem that you are complaining about, which appears to be distortion, has nothing to do with lack of a robust signal coming into its ADC, right? In fact, the problem is the exact opposite of what you are talking about at this point. The Yeti Pro also has 24/192khz specs. It seems like most of these budget usb mics are 16 bit, if they bother to publish the specs at all. The sonic consequences of 24/192 versus 16/44 in this application is basically zero. The web seems to foster obsessing over irrelevant technical factoids involving simple numbers, but I like to get the job done clean, quick and with nominal expense. That takes attention to the right details, not every sales pitch that rolls down the internet. ;-) The other idea is to get a small usb converter box and run a good mic like a Shure SM7b. But then the cost and complexity rises. They tell me that SM7s are great VO mics and I have no reason to doubt that. I've done a certain amount of VO work with far less expensive stuff, such as SM 57s, CAD 95s, $39 MXLs, and the like and nobody seems to complain. The results are generally clear and lifelike. One reason is that I pay attention to another factor that has come up on this thread, which is recording in an appropriate acoustic environment. My first choice is sitting around a picnic table on my patio. My second is usually a bedroom at the artist's house, you know the one with nothing but bed(s) and stuffed furnature and deep rugs. Common thread - very low reverb. Bottom line is that you don't need to spend the big bucks to get unclipped VOs. The alternatives that provide you with a headphone jack for monitoring may not be everything that you want. Usually, the talent wants to hear any background music or other sounds that they are working with through the headphones. A zero-latency analog monitoring facility built into the mic or its cable can't do that. The only way I know to get that is with a mixer, and not necessarily the simplest one. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"mcp6453" wrote in message
... On 8/22/2011 11:43 AM, Steve King wrote: I, too, am a big fan of the MicPort Pro. It has a gain control for the mic pre section of the device, a beefy headphone output for both the microphone and playback from the computer, as well as phantom power for condenser microphones. Yes the $140 MicPort Pro is a great little unit. It definitely has more features than the $35 Blue Icicle. Another poster suggested that dynamic mics might be better for acoustically challenged spaces. I disagree. I think that the pattern of the mic - wide/narrow - has more to do with how a mic behaves in reverberant spaces. Whatever the reason, whether it by the type of element or the pattern of the mic, we're getting better results with dynamics than with condensers. I was in denial until someone with significantly less audio experience proved it to me. I don't dispute your experience. I wonder what it is? Typically reduced high freq. response compared to a condenser? I do know that I still don't understand why a Beyer Dynamic 260 ribbon mic has such a very good rejection of not only off-pattern sound but also on-pattern sounds at a distance. Its been awhile, but my recollection is that you pull that mic a few feet away from a source and the drop off is dramatic. It's a hypercardioid. That part I understand. In any case it was a real problem solver, when miking reeds in a small studio---great isolation. Maybe the PR20 has its own magic. If I were you, I'd combine a micport pro from B & H Photo @ $149, an XLR cable of suitable length, about $20, and a MCA SP1 condenser mic from B & H Photo @ $45.50. Don't let the low prices scare you. The MicPort Pro is a very, very decent mic preamp/USB AD/DA convertor and the SP1 mic is a real sleeper. We bought four MCA SP1s for podcasting. I wish we hadn't done it. As you say, they are more than worth the purchase price, but they're just not the right mic for our application. The acoustics in the podcasting studio are not good. Guests who are not naturally mic savvy are not good at working the mics. They understand where to talk into a PR20, but they often move away from the sweet spot on the side-address condenser mics. I hadn't thought about that. Also, the pattern on the SP1 is pretty wide. That's great for people with poor mic technique, but not so good if you have several mics open in a reverberent space. Harlan Hogan sells a side-address name-branded condensor mic, (which I really like). He says he gets a call every week from a purchaser who complains about the sound. All are trying to talk into the 'bottom' of the mic;-) Steve King |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/23/2011 11:39 AM, Steve King wrote:
"mcp6453" wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 11:43 AM, Steve King wrote: I, too, am a big fan of the MicPort Pro. It has a gain control for the mic pre section of the device, a beefy headphone output for both the microphone and playback from the computer, as well as phantom power for condenser microphones. Yes the $140 MicPort Pro is a great little unit. It definitely has more features than the $35 Blue Icicle. Another poster suggested that dynamic mics might be better for acoustically challenged spaces. I disagree. I think that the pattern of the mic - wide/narrow - has more to do with how a mic behaves in reverberant spaces. Whatever the reason, whether it by the type of element or the pattern of the mic, we're getting better results with dynamics than with condensers. I was in denial until someone with significantly less audio experience proved it to me. I don't dispute your experience. I wonder what it is? Typically reduced high freq. response compared to a condenser? I do know that I still don't understand why a Beyer Dynamic 260 ribbon mic has such a very good rejection of not only off-pattern sound but also on-pattern sounds at a distance. Its been awhile, but my recollection is that you pull that mic a few feet away from a source and the drop off is dramatic. It's a hypercardioid. That part I understand. In any case it was a real problem solver, when miking reeds in a small studio---great isolation. Maybe the PR20 has its own magic. If I were you, I'd combine a micport pro from B & H Photo @ $149, an XLR cable of suitable length, about $20, and a MCA SP1 condenser mic from B & H Photo @ $45.50. Don't let the low prices scare you. The MicPort Pro is a very, very decent mic preamp/USB AD/DA convertor and the SP1 mic is a real sleeper. We bought four MCA SP1s for podcasting. I wish we hadn't done it. As you say, they are more than worth the purchase price, but they're just not the right mic for our application. The acoustics in the podcasting studio are not good. Guests who are not naturally mic savvy are not good at working the mics. They understand where to talk into a PR20, but they often move away from the sweet spot on the side-address condenser mics. I hadn't thought about that. Also, the pattern on the SP1 is pretty wide. That's great for people with poor mic technique, but not so good if you have several mics open in a reverberent space. Harlan Hogan sells a side-address name-branded condensor mic, (which I really like). He says he gets a call every week from a purchaser who complains about the sound. All are trying to talk into the 'bottom' of the mic;-) Steve King Steve, I really wish that you could so some A/B testing of an RE20/RE320/Heil PR40 with an SP1 in a room with not-so-good acoustics, like a dining room or kitchen (no processing.) I had to eat some words because I love the sound of a condenser on spoken voice. However, the PR40 compared with a KSM105 made me a believer in dynamic mics for VO is an acoustically challenged room. Scott will have to weigh in on the laws of physics. That discussion is beyond my pay grade. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Steve King wrote:
"mcp6453" wrote in message Whatever the reason, whether it by the type of element or the pattern of the mic, we're getting better results with dynamics than with condensers. I was in denial until someone with significantly less audio experience proved it to me. People get too damn hung up over the technology inside the microphone, which is really mostly irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's a dynamic or a condenser, it matters how well it performs in the job. The RE-20 is one of the best vocal mikes every made, and it's one of only two mikes still being made with variable-D control so that the response stays the same at different distances. say, they are more than worth the purchase price, but they're just not the right mic for our application. The acoustics in the podcasting studio are not good. Guests who are not naturally mic savvy are not good at working the mics. They understand where to talk into a PR20, but they often move away from the sweet spot on the side-address condenser mics. That's the purpose of the RE-20/PR20. It has no sweet spot. You can be anywhere. I hadn't thought about that. Also, the pattern on the SP1 is pretty wide. That's great for people with poor mic technique, but not so good if you have several mics open in a reverberent space. Harlan Hogan sells a side-address name-branded condensor mic, (which I really like). He says he gets a call every week from a purchaser who complains about the sound. All are trying to talk into the 'bottom' of the mic;-) If you don't want to go the variable-D route, the only way to get good performance from people with bad mike technique is to use a very very wide pattern, so wide it's omni. And that means you need a very good studio without a lot of noise and reflections. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
mcp6453 wrote:
Steve, I really wish that you could so some A/B testing of an RE20/RE320/Heil PR40 with an SP1 in a room with not-so-good acoustics, like a dining room or kitchen (no processing.) I had to eat some words because I love the sound of a condenser on spoken voice. However, the PR40 compared with a KSM105 made me a believer in dynamic mics for VO is an acoustically challenged room. The KSM105, though, is phenomenally peaked up on top. On the right voice it is breathy and wonderful. On the wrong voice, it exaggerates tonsil noise and just becomes screechy and thin. It is a very highly colored mike, but when it's the right mike, it's the right mike. Scott will have to weigh in on the laws of physics. That discussion is beyond my pay grade. People worry too much. Just use what sounds good and don't worry about it, but don't get hung up on condenser vs. dynamic. Get hung up on pattern and tone. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"mcp6453" wrote in message
... On 8/23/2011 11:39 AM, Steve King wrote: "mcp6453" wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 11:43 AM, Steve King wrote: I, too, am a big fan of the MicPort Pro. It has a gain control for the mic pre section of the device, a beefy headphone output for both the microphone and playback from the computer, as well as phantom power for condenser microphones. Yes the $140 MicPort Pro is a great little unit. It definitely has more features than the $35 Blue Icicle. Another poster suggested that dynamic mics might be better for acoustically challenged spaces. I disagree. I think that the pattern of the mic - wide/narrow - has more to do with how a mic behaves in reverberant spaces. Whatever the reason, whether it by the type of element or the pattern of the mic, we're getting better results with dynamics than with condensers. I was in denial until someone with significantly less audio experience proved it to me. I don't dispute your experience. I wonder what it is? Typically reduced high freq. response compared to a condenser? I do know that I still don't understand why a Beyer Dynamic 260 ribbon mic has such a very good rejection of not only off-pattern sound but also on-pattern sounds at a distance. Its been awhile, but my recollection is that you pull that mic a few feet away from a source and the drop off is dramatic. It's a hypercardioid. That part I understand. In any case it was a real problem solver, when miking reeds in a small studio---great isolation. Maybe the PR20 has its own magic. If I were you, I'd combine a micport pro from B & H Photo @ $149, an XLR cable of suitable length, about $20, and a MCA SP1 condenser mic from B & H Photo @ $45.50. Don't let the low prices scare you. The MicPort Pro is a very, very decent mic preamp/USB AD/DA convertor and the SP1 mic is a real sleeper. We bought four MCA SP1s for podcasting. I wish we hadn't done it. As you say, they are more than worth the purchase price, but they're just not the right mic for our application. The acoustics in the podcasting studio are not good. Guests who are not naturally mic savvy are not good at working the mics. They understand where to talk into a PR20, but they often move away from the sweet spot on the side-address condenser mics. I hadn't thought about that. Also, the pattern on the SP1 is pretty wide. That's great for people with poor mic technique, but not so good if you have several mics open in a reverberent space. Harlan Hogan sells a side-address name-branded condensor mic, (which I really like). He says he gets a call every week from a purchaser who complains about the sound. All are trying to talk into the 'bottom' of the mic;-) Steve King Steve, I really wish that you could so some A/B testing of an RE20/RE320/Heil PR40 with an SP1 in a room with not-so-good acoustics, like a dining room or kitchen (no processing.) I had to eat some words because I love the sound of a condenser on spoken voice. However, the PR40 compared with a KSM105 made me a believer in dynamic mics for VO is an acoustically challenged room. Scott will have to weigh in on the laws of physics. That discussion is beyond my pay grade. Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Steve |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Steve King wrote:
Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Skip the KSM105. Try the RE-20, or if you don't have the budget for the RE-20, an RE-16. Also the original Sennheiser 421 which isn't very popular today but really is a remarkably natural announcer mike. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 17:18:28 -0400, mcp6453 wrote
(in article ) : Steve, I really wish that you could so some A/B testing of an RE20/RE320/Heil PR40 with an SP1 in a room with not-so-good acoustics, like a dining room or kitchen (no processing.) I had to eat some words because I love the sound of a condenser on spoken voice. However, the PR40 compared with a KSM105 made me a believer in dynamic mics for VO is an acoustically challenged room. Scott will have to weigh in on the laws of physics. That discussion is beyond my pay grade. Especially if the room is a racquetball court. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
That's a good point about the usb headset mic component. It's
probably under-speced and underpowered, so it distorts at every turn in the road. It's not extremely bad distortion, but you can totally hear it's there if you know what to listen for. And then when I hear example recordings of people spending somewhere between $300-1000 to get their sound, the difference in quality is quite noticeable. It goes from "acceptable utilitarian" sound to "nice studio" sound. Not "ultimate studio" but definitely nice. I still have high praise for this LX-3000. It works rock-solid straight out of the box. And it's relatively complicated for a sub- $30 unit, having headphones a mic and the drivers to make it work right. After all of the great comments by rec.audio.pro, I'm leaning toward this: 1) A channel strip with a digital output and a good mic for at-home studio work 2) the MicPort Pro if I had to travel. Through reading this, I see that Mr. Dorsey strongly recommends the RE-20. I was thinking about a condenser to get a bit of a sheen, and bright presense-peak mics tend to work well with my voice. But he brings up a great point about the variable-D. I'm trying to minimize hassles on the recording, basically trying to get to a zero-editing solution on the audio. Maybe with the RE-20 and the channel strip set exactly to my eq/compression/level needs, I can get that "set and forget" solution I'm looking for. If I could do the audio "on the fly" like a radio show does and go straight to rendering after content capture, that would save me 1/3 of my production time. That time adds up. I wish to not have to be hyper-concerned with proximity to the mic. I plan to talk comfortably with the mic on a table near the notebook computer. The mic will be about 8-15 inches away. It's probably going to be too cumbersome and distracting to have the mic right up in front of me, because I have to do a lot of other stuff simultaneously besides talk. Maybe that's why after all these years of technology, talk-style studios still use the RE-20, even if they could drop $10k on a Brauner in two seconds if they wanted to. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Steve King wrote: Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Skip the KSM105. Try the RE-20, or if you don't have the budget for the RE-20, an RE-16. Also the original Sennheiser 421 which isn't very popular today but really is a remarkably natural announcer mike. --scott The Senn MD431 can also be good for VO work. Very workable pattern and proximity effect. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"hank alrich" wrote in message
... Scott Dorsey wrote: Steve King wrote: Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Skip the KSM105. Try the RE-20, or if you don't have the budget for the RE-20, an RE-16. Also the original Sennheiser 421 which isn't very popular today but really is a remarkably natural announcer mike. --scott The Senn MD431 can also be good for VO work. Very workable pattern and proximity effect. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri Ditto on the MD431. 12 to 15 inches away is a bit far unless your space is fairly dead. You might want to check into this: K&M Stands 23850. It is the spring-loaded adjustable microphone support arm that most radio stations use. With this you can get the microphone closer to you without intruding on your desk space. A closer mic will overcome a lot of your accoustic issues. Steve King |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Steve King wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: Steve King wrote: Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Skip the KSM105. Try the RE-20, or if you don't have the budget for the RE-20, an RE-16. Also the original Sennheiser 421 which isn't very popular today but really is a remarkably natural announcer mike. --scott The Senn MD431 can also be good for VO work. Very workable pattern and proximity effect. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri Ditto on the MD431. 12 to 15 inches away is a bit far unless your space is fairly dead. You might want to check into this: K&M Stands 23850. It is the spring-loaded adjustable microphone support arm that most radio stations use. With this you can get the microphone closer to you without intruding on your desk space. A closer mic will overcome a lot of your accoustic issues. What Steve said. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On Thu 2011-Aug-25 18:08, hank alrich writes:
snip You might want to check into this: K&M Stands 23850. It is the spring-loaded adjustable microphone support arm that most radio stations use. With this you can get the microphone closer to you without intruding on your desk space. A closer mic will overcome a lot of your accoustic issues. What Steve said. YEp, and if that's a little pricey, get one of those bulkhead fittings that mounts to a floor or wall sized for regular mic stand tubing, mount a boom and/or gooseneck from it, have the mic right close and the real estate taken up in a corner you can't otherwise use as functional desktop real estate anyway. That's what I did here at the ham radio operating position. I've got a little miniboom attached to one of these flange mounts that I screwed into the desk in an out of the way place, a gooseneck attached to the miniboom. MIc is just inches from my mouth when needed. Regards, Richard .... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"joe h" wrote in message
... I wish to not have to be hyper-concerned with proximity to the mic. I plan to talk comfortably with the mic on a table near the notebook computer. The mic will be about 8-15 inches away. It's probably going to be too cumbersome and distracting to have the mic right up in front of me, because I have to do a lot of other stuff simultaneously besides talk. Maybe that's why after all these years of technology, talk-style studios still use the RE-20, even if they could drop $10k on a Brauner in two seconds if they wanted to. If you want maximal freedom from proximity effect, then its either a variable-D cardioid or an omni that you want. There's a reason why mics like the RE 20 and the 635 are still in new production or at least NOS from the OEM - VO, live talk, and ENG. |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/25/2011 1:37 PM, joe h wrote:
Through reading this, I see that Mr. Dorsey strongly recommends the RE-20. The RE20 is a great mic. However, the PR40 is a little cheaper, and for a lot of users, it sounds better. You should compare the two before you commit. I got my second one used for $215 including the $100 shock mount. It was in like new condition. Also compare the PR40 with a condenser mic. You might be surprised at the "sheen". |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
"mcp6453" wrote in message ... On 8/25/2011 1:37 PM, joe h wrote: Through reading this, I see that Mr. Dorsey strongly recommends the RE-20. The RE20 is a great mic. However, the PR40 is a little cheaper, and for a lot of users, it sounds better. You should compare the two before you commit. I got my second one used for $215 including the $100 shock mount. It was in like new condition. Also compare the PR40 with a condenser mic. You might be surprised at the "sheen". Is there any evidence that the PR40 controls the usual directional microphone's proximity effect? |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Arny Krueger wrote:
Is there any evidence that the PR40 controls the usual directional microphone's proximity effect? It does not. As far as I know the only currently manufactured variable-D mikes are the RE-20 and RE-16. However, just because it doesn't have proximity reduction doesn't mean you should avoid it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: Is there any evidence that the PR40 controls the usual directional microphone's proximity effect? It does not. As far as I know the only currently manufactured variable-D mikes are the RE-20 and RE-16. However, just because it doesn't have proximity reduction doesn't mean you should avoid it. --scott True, though often, if inexperienced people are working a mic closely, their lack of strict control of the distance from their mouth to the mic can make trouble. That's where those variable-D mics can shine. But you knew that already. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On 8/26/2011 1:46 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: Is there any evidence that the PR40 controls the usual directional microphone's proximity effect? It does not. As far as I know the only currently manufactured variable-D mikes are the RE-20 and RE-16. However, just because it doesn't have proximity reduction doesn't mean you should avoid it. --scott In fact, a lot of VO guys buy them BECAUSE of the proximity effect. How did I end up with an RE10, RE15, RE18, and RE20, but no RE16? |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
usb mics for podcasting vs. a usb interface and an analog mic
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:26:42 -0400, Steve King wrote
(in article ): Steve, I really wish that you could so some A/B testing of an RE20/RE320/Heil PR40 with an SP1 in a room with not-so-good acoustics, like a dining room or kitchen (no processing.) I had to eat some words because I love the sound of a condenser on spoken voice. However, the PR40 compared with a KSM105 made me a believer in dynamic mics for VO is an acoustically challenged room. Scott will have to weigh in on the laws of physics. That discussion is beyond my pay grade. Great. Send me those mics. I have an SP1. I'll also add an SM7. And, include a KSM105. You know, these tests could take awhile;-) Steve You can't eat 105 unless you have no bottom on your voice at all, so it wouldn't work well in that situation. What might would be an Audio technica AE5400 with the low end rolled off. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Does a Mac audio interface exists with 16 or more analog inputs? | Pro Audio | |||
USB interface for Radio Shack PZM mics? | Pro Audio | |||
Analog Mixer to External Audio Interface to Computer | Pro Audio | |||
Analog to digital interface | Pro Audio | |||
Firewire or USB 4 channel analog interface? | Pro Audio |