Has speaker technology improved much over the last 20 years or so?

To put the question a bit differently: am I better off buying 10-15
year old speakers that used to be expensive high-end ones or
current-model speakers that are lower priced (assuming that price is an
indicator of quality, for the sake of argument).

Thanks in advance. It sure is nice to have a sensible audio forum. Some
of the BS that is exchanged on other "audiophile" forums can be pretty
deep.

tm.

On 24 Jan 2006 19:41:30 -0800, "dodecatheon"
wrote:

To put the question a bit differently: am I better off buying 10-15
year old speakers that used to be expensive high-end ones or
current-model speakers that are lower priced (assuming that price is an
indicator of quality, for the sake of argument).

The answer is impossible without specifics. There are old designs
which have endured and others which have gracefully passed. Among
modern speakers, there's good and bad, as well.

IMHO, the best of today's speakers are superior to the old.

Kal

OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology behind speakers
changed very much? Have there been significant improvements in
materials, design or construction in the last 20 years? Yikes, that's
only 1986 - I'm starting to feel old.

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
news
On 24 Jan 2006 19:41:30 -0800, "dodecatheon"
wrote:
To put the question a bit differently: am I better off buying 10-15
year old speakers that used to be expensive high-end ones or
current-model speakers that are lower priced (assuming that price is an
indicator of quality, for the sake of argument).

The answer is impossible without specifics. There are old designs
which have endured and others which have gracefully passed. Among
modern speakers, there's good and bad, as well.

IMHO, the best of today's speakers are superior to the old.

Yes, and the better examples of older speakers are still superior to many of
the newer ones.

There are a couple of simple factors here.
Technology has improved in the areas of design, testing, and some materials.
Costs have increased in the areas of design, construction and materials.
All speakers are a compromise of price and performance at the time of
manufacture.

Good quality used speakers can sometimes be a bargain, however you have to
be careful you are aware exactly what condition they are in.
Some materials like foam surrounds do no age well. And some users may have
overdriven them creating permanent damage which may or may not be obvious
without proper testing.

MrT.

"dodecatheon" wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology behind speakers
changed very much? Have there been significant improvements in
materials, design or construction in the last 20 years?

Design, not that much since Thiele & Small in the 70's for enclosures.
Quite a bit for testing eg. laser interferometry etc. But rarely applicable
to cheap speakers.
Materials, quite a bit at the higher end. Not so much at the cheap end.
Construction, not that much as far as the user is concerned. Quite a bit for
the manufacturer in many cases.

Remember some cheap speakers may have benefited from some technological spin
off, but in the main most improvements have been confined to the more
expensive units.
IMO an old hi-end box in good condition, may be much better value than a
newer box at the same current price. It all depends on how much of a bargain
you get with the S/H item. eg. Are you buying used at a hi-fi dealers or an
estate sale?

MrT.

"dodecatheon" wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology behind speakers
changed very much? Have there been significant improvements in
materials, design or construction in the last 20 years? Yikes, that's
only 1986 - I'm starting to feel old.


the simple answer is no. (i'm sure others will disagree) but the big jump in
design was from the electrodynamic to the PM (permanent magnet) dynamic.

you might want to look at electrostatic speakers if you are in to something
different... but cost, size, among other factors may lead you back to
conventional boxes.

the more complex answer is peoples wants and needs change. your current
lifestyle may induce you to replace those big rock n roll blasters with
bookshelf or satellite system sized units. you may now want 5.1 or 7.1 home
theatre.

buy what you can afford, what makes you happy AND what make your spouse/SO
happy.

In article . com,
"dodecatheon" wrote:

OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology behind speakers
changed very much? Have there been significant improvements in
materials, design or construction in the last 20 years? Yikes, that's
only 1986 - I'm starting to feel old.


Yes, there are different types of motor structures. Modern if you will,
but take ideas from older drivers of course. As well as different
materials.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

"dodecatheon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Has speaker technology improved much over the last 20 years or so?

I would say it has, in the professional markets. Mainly new designs allowing
previously unheard-of linear excursions (Xmax) through the use of neodymium
magnets and pot/core structures.
In terms of home hi-fi, only the very cheap end has seen improvements. The
mid to high end seems to have plateaued 15 years ago.


--
Best Regards,

Mark A. Weiss, P.E.
www.mwcomms.com
-

"dodecatheon" wrote in message
ups.com

OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology
behind speakers changed very much?

Some evolution, some revolution.

Have there been
significant improvements in materials, design or
construction in the last 20 years?

Yes, in really up-to-date speakers there have been lots of significant
improvements.

Just consider one parameter which relates to clean bass - Xmax.

20 years ago Xmax was known of by a few, but hardly spoken of in public.

Most of the papers expounding on Xmax are 20 years old or less.

It can then take years from engineering paper publiciation until the
technolgy gets to be mainstream.

In the past 10 years Xmax has become widely used and understood to
characterize the bass capabilities of speaker drivers.

Xmax of bass drivers has increased substantially at given price points.

Yikes, that's only 1986 - I'm starting to feel old.

I first listened to a quality sound system in 1956 I think it was. McIntosh,
Marantz, JBL, EV, tubes, vinyl etc.

dodecatheon wrote:

Has speaker technology improved much over the last 20 years or so?

To put the question a bit differently: am I better off buying 10-15
year old speakers that used to be expensive high-end ones or
current-model speakers that are lower priced (assuming that price is an
indicator of quality, for the sake of argument).

Much of the electronics industry has benefitted from advances in
technology for chips, pc board manufacting techniques, CAD, disc drives,
etc. A lot of this has been driven by the computer industry and has
spun off into audio. Thus, inexpensive new CD players and receivers are
available that rival their much higher-priced ancestors.

But, for the most part these advances are not applicable to speakers.
Granted, CAD tools make it easier to apply theil-small parameters, but
the results are not really any better than doing it by hand, it's just a
lot easier. And there have been advances in materials science that
allows "exotic" materials like aramids and titanium to be used. So
while there has been advances in speaker technology, it's more
evolutionary than revolutionary and you won't find much of an
improvement at the low end of the scale. (quite the opposite if you're
looking at those awful sattelite systems)

Wood is still as expensive as ever. Quality woodworking is maybe even
more expensive. Drivers and crossovers components have not seen much of
a price drop either. You're still going to pay real money for good
speakers.

Which is to say that older good sounding speakers will probably sound
better than cheaper newer stuff. The disadvantage is that you can't
really shop around and audition the older models, you have to get lucky
and find them at an estate sale or something. But unless you've got
more than $500 to spend, you're probably better off nosing around for an
older pair.

//Walt

On 24 Jan 2006 20:00:10 -0800, "dodecatheon"
wrote:

OK, fair enough point. But has the actual technology behind speakers
changed very much? Have there been significant improvements in
materials, design or construction in the last 20 years? Yikes, that's
only 1986 - I'm starting to feel old.

Not the fundamental principles but materials, construction and
computer assistance have made major improvements at all price levels.
Still, there's no general answer to old-vs.-new.

Kal

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:22:27 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Most of the papers expounding on Xmax are 20 years old
or less.

R.H. Small published his seminal paper "Vented box
loudspeaker systems Part II: Large signal analysis", in
the July/August, '73 issue of the AES Journal (Vol. 21,
No. 6)...

A fine paper, but not really in the running for AES papers "expounding on
Xmax".

Try:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5707

dodecatheon wrote:

Has speaker technology improved much over the last 20 years or so?

This can be answered with a resounding YES or with a resounding NO. The
new objects since 1950 or so are the Heil Air Motion Transformer and the
Manger Schallwandler, but there has been a lot of design improvement
going on. Cross-overs have improved as has powerhandling.

To put the question a bit differently: am I better off
buying 10-15 year old speakers that used to be expensive
high-end ones or current-model speakers that are lower priced
(assuming that price is an indicator of quality, for the sake
of argument).

As asked and grossly simplified, yes - things like foam surrounds in
need of replacement may modify that answer. Verification that the old
stuff is actually OK rather thena KO is wise, it could be unsimple. Some
people would be better off buying the old stuff, some not, it is not
possible for me to predict what group you are in.

tm.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



--
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