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#1
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Ribbon Tweeters on K-Horn
Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems
just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? |
#2
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#3
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This coming from a Citroen driver...I may be crazy, but I'm not
missing fingers from hydraulic injection! |
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#5
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wrote in message ups.com... Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? #1. It is yours. #2. It is a Klipschorn. #3. It is a waste of a potentially good tweeter. Cheers, Margaret |
#6
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Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? #1. It is yours. #2. It is a Klipschorn. #3. It is a waste of a potentially good tweeter. But it doesn't smell like a dead halibut, unlike your folded horn. |
#7
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I actually think the Cit hydraulic suspension is a good idea. It is
NOT well carried out. They ignored all known best practices for hydraulic systems. They even got the fluid colors ass backwards-Vegetable fluid is BLUE, mineral RED, phosphate ester PURPLE in the real world. And no one uses vegetable fluid, except the static hydraulic systems in automotive braking, anymore. Your typing is fine, but if you don't keep clear of pressure side hydro leaks, you will lose fingers-or a limb-or even die. As with Bosch pump diesel engines, hydraulic leaks can inject you with fluid. All known usable hydraulic fluids except DI water are lethal to tissue. A&P mechanics-and ag/diesel types-know this but Bubba at the gas station doesn't. |
#8
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wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? #1. It is yours. #2. It is a Klipschorn. #3. It is a waste of a potentially good tweeter. But it doesn't smell like a dead halibut, unlike your folded horn. I wonder what your mother did to you..... Margaret |
#9
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Cal said:
"Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? " Are you familiar with the expression lipstick on a pig? |
#10
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a écrit :
Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? Why not ? http://www.alkeng.com/trachorn.html Sure that on the *thin* column model you can do that. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-7-2000.html With that : http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...29131&pid=1889 With crossover modification it would cost you about USD 250.00 for an *hypothetical* improvement... Conclusion : you'd better purchase USD 250.00 of good music ! |
#11
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#12
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The Rolls Royce used the Cit components and to my mind the RR was a
better car overall. The brakes are much more pleasant than the clitoral bump on Cits and the spheres are strictly in "helper" mode. Of course the RR was almost three times the weight and a third the fuel mileage. Of course the ID/DS and SM were the last ones in America. The CX is a better car I understand but they are unobtanium Stateside. "LHM" is actually a transmission fluid minus the friction modifiers and is used in some ag equipment as well as Rolls Royces and Citroens. Dexron II or 5606 work just as well, except they are red. Hydro suspension is _not_ peculiar to Citroen. British Leyland had Hydrolastic and Hydragas, and several Mercedes Benzes had hydraulic rear suspension using a pump and accumulator as well. The Cit system with a conventional brake pedal and using standard fluids, lines, and fittings would be practical even today. The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. |
#13
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#14
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 20:21:15 +0200, Lionel
wrote: a écrit : The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. American have the same behaviour for cars than for team sports. They are totaly unable to communicate their needs, their interest to the rest of the world. Yes, that's why the Japanese have done so poorly with THEIR cars. |
#15
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said:.
Of course the ID/DS and SM were the last ones in America. The CX is a better car I understand but they are unobtanium Stateside. Canada is also a part of the continent of North-America, right? http://www.citroen-ca.com/CXguide.html There are also a few still around in the USA. "LHM" is actually a transmission fluid minus the friction modifiers and is used in some ag equipment as well as Rolls Royces and Citroens. Dexron II or 5606 work just as well, except they are red. Actually, there are 2 versions of hydraulic fluid used in Citroens: LHS, which is red and used in the DS up to 1966, and the green LHM which is used by all HD Citroens after that date. Even the 2CV, which has a conventional brake system, uses LHM! Hydro suspension is _not_ peculiar to Citroen. British Leyland had Hydrolastic and Hydragas, and several Mercedes Benzes had hydraulic rear suspension using a pump and accumulator as well. The Cit system with a conventional brake pedal and using standard fluids, lines, and fittings would be practical even today. Maybe not peculiar to Citroen, but they invented it! And the CX *is* a perfect every day driver, providing you have easy access to spare parts and you have the knowledge how to fix them. The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. Peugeot is thinking of a comeback. If and when that happens, Citroen will follow because they're part of one organization, called the PSA group. PSA also has ties with Toyota, Ford and BMW, so they may use their dealer network to start up business in the USA. Beware! ;-) -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
#16
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dave weil a écrit :
On Sat, 28 May 2005 20:21:15 +0200, Lionel wrote: a écrit : The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. American have the same behaviour for cars than for team sports. They are totaly unable to communicate their needs, their interest to the rest of the world. Yes, that's why the Japanese have done so poorly with THEIR cars. Sumo isn't a team sport, idiot. |
#17
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Well, you'd have a hard time finding a ribbon tweeter that would come close
to matching the efficiency of the main drive units in the Khorn. wrote in message ups.com... Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? |
#18
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"Sander deWaal" wrote in message ... said:. Of course the ID/DS and SM were the last ones in America. The CX is a better car I understand but they are unobtanium Stateside. Canada is also a part of the continent of North-America, right? http://www.citroen-ca.com/CXguide.html There are also a few still around in the USA. "LHM" is actually a transmission fluid minus the friction modifiers and is used in some ag equipment as well as Rolls Royces and Citroens. Dexron II or 5606 work just as well, except they are red. Actually, there are 2 versions of hydraulic fluid used in Citroens: LHS, which is red and used in the DS up to 1966, and the green LHM which is used by all HD Citroens after that date. Even the 2CV, which has a conventional brake system, uses LHM! Hydro suspension is _not_ peculiar to Citroen. British Leyland had Hydrolastic and Hydragas, and several Mercedes Benzes had hydraulic rear suspension using a pump and accumulator as well. The Cit system with a conventional brake pedal and using standard fluids, lines, and fittings would be practical even today. Maybe not peculiar to Citroen, but they invented it! And the CX *is* a perfect every day driver, providing you have easy access to spare parts and you have the knowledge how to fix them. The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. Peugeot is thinking of a comeback. If and when that happens, Citroen will follow because they're part of one organization, called the PSA group. PSA also has ties with Toyota, Ford and BMW, so they may use their dealer network to start up business in the USA. Beware! ;-) The Citroens were remarkable engineering achievements, years ahead of their time. However, I got addicted to the idea of a car that actually works almost all the time, ie., a modern Japanese car. These Subarus are amazing. You put this thing called a "key" in the ignition, turn it, and away you go. |
#19
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severian a écrit :
Well, you'd have a hard time finding a ribbon tweeter that would come close to matching the efficiency of the main drive units in the Khorn. It's not a problem for Mr Cerise... He will include heavy serial resistance in his crossover. ;-) wrote in message ups.com... Looking at the front of the Klipschhorn, its flat forward face seems just tailor made for a ribbon tweeter to be mounted there. Is there a good reason wy this is a bad idea? |
#20
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wrote in message ups.com... I actually think the Cit hydraulic suspension is a good idea. It is NOT well carried out. They ignored all known best practices for hydraulic systems. They even got the fluid colors ass backwards-Vegetable fluid is BLUE, mineral RED, phosphate ester PURPLE in the real world. And no one uses vegetable fluid, except the static hydraulic systems in automotive braking, anymore. Your typing is fine, but if you don't keep clear of pressure side hydro leaks, you will lose fingers-or a limb-or even die. As with Bosch pump diesel engines, hydraulic leaks can inject you with fluid. All known usable hydraulic fluids except DI water are lethal to tissue. A&P mechanics-and ag/diesel types-know this but Bubba at the gas station doesn't. Hydropneumatic ride is like no other. Mercedes intermittently offered it as far back as the late 60's on their 300 series, and 600 series. But no one has succeeded in producing a system that doesn't compromise reliability. Even Mercedes were famous for bellows blowouts -- their was a short, mandatory maintenance interval. In the early 90's, Subaru tried it. One American luxury car manufacturer tried it as well. In each case, the option lasted only a few years. |
#21
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"Robert Morein" said:
The Citroens were remarkable engineering achievements, years ahead of their time. However, I got addicted to the idea of a car that actually works almost all the time, ie., a modern Japanese car. These Subarus are amazing. You put this thing called a "key" in the ignition, turn it, and away you go. Funny, my CX does that, too. 40.000 kms/year without any major troubles. Keyword: major ;-) -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
#22
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PD said:
Another mate (already told you of one horror story!) nearly bought it when his Citreon denied power steering on a corner, showing a preference for fields to the open road. A xsara I think. My confidence in the brand is low... I know about that story.......and I already told you about a close friend of mine who died while working on his CX. Better not get a Peugeot as well, then! -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
#23
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Sander deWaal a écrit :
PD said: Another mate (already told you of one horror story!) nearly bought it when his Citreon denied power steering on a corner, showing a preference for fields to the open road. A xsara I think. My confidence in the brand is low... I know about that story.......and I already told you about a close friend of mine who died while working on his CX. Better not get a Peugeot as well, then! Or a Mercedes. Depends on what you are calling security. |
#24
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In , Sander deWaal wrote :
PD said: Another mate (already told you of one horror story!) nearly bought it when his Citreon denied power steering on a corner, showing a preference for fields to the open road. A xsara I think. My confidence in the brand is low... I know about that story.......and I already told you about a close friend of mine who died while working on his CX. Better not get a Peugeot as well, then! Sorry but they have said NON ! - NON = 55% - OUI = 45% |
#25
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"Sander deWaal" wrote in message ... "Robert Morein" said: The Citroens were remarkable engineering achievements, years ahead of their time. However, I got addicted to the idea of a car that actually works almost all the time, ie., a modern Japanese car. These Subarus are amazing. You put this thing called a "key" in the ignition, turn it, and away you go. Funny, my CX does that, too. 40.000 kms/year without any major troubles. Keyword: major ;-) I never heard that they just fell apart. The word was "unmaintainable." When I was growing up, the lust-car was an XKE, which well unmaintainable and also fell apart -- literally, since they did not dip prime the body. |
#26
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"Robert Morein" wrote in message ... I never heard that they just fell apart. The word was "unmaintainable." When I was growing up, the lust-car was an XKE, which well unmaintainable ^^^^^^^ and also fell apart -- literally, since they did not dip prime the body. Pretty shoddy grammar for someone who was so keen to point out magnanimous/magnanimus due to a sticky studio keyboard as a method to insult. |
#27
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Well, you'd have a hard time finding a ribbon tweeter that would come
close to matching the efficiency of the main drive units in the Khorn. What is the efficiency if the K-Horns? There are some ribbons that might possibly work such as the Arum Cantus G1@102db 1W/M. Fountek has one that I believe has the same sensitivity. Both of the above are priced + $300.00 U.S. This would seem to be a case of needing the rest of the drivers to come up to the standards of the tweeters. There are some Piezo horns that are even more expensive, but IMO it would be much simpler and cost effective to put your money and time into something from a more recent century. |
#28
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"severian" wrote in message ink.net... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... I never heard that they just fell apart. The word was "unmaintainable." When I was growing up, the lust-car was an XKE, which well unmaintainable ^^^^^^^ and also fell apart -- literally, since they did not dip prime the body. Pretty shoddy grammar for someone who was so keen to point out magnanimous/magnanimus due to a sticky studio keyboard as a method to insult. I'm sorry. Honestly, I thought you were ignorant. I still do. |
#29
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wrote in message oups.com... Well, you'd have a hard time finding a ribbon tweeter that would come close to matching the efficiency of the main drive units in the Khorn. What is the efficiency if the K-Horns? There are some ribbons that might possibly work such as the Arum Cantus G1@102db 1W/M. Fountek has one that I believe has the same sensitivity. Both of the above are priced + $300.00 U.S. This would seem to be a case of needing the rest of the drivers to come up to the standards of the tweeters. There are some Piezo horns that are even more expensive, but IMO it would be much simpler and cost effective to put your money and time into something from a more recent century. Good advice, Powell. Keep up the nice work. |
#30
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As PWK used to say-the physics haven't changed. The bass extension and
naturalness from K-Horns, La Scalaas, and Belle Klipsches-in order of performance-are unexcelled by anything else out there. The midrange and treble, are another matter. But yes the efficiency of ribbons is relatively poorer. Biamping would make it easier to mix the two, but ultimately I think it's the sticking point. |
#31
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#32
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wrote in message oups.com... Well, you'd have a hard time finding a ribbon tweeter that would come close to matching the efficiency of the main drive units in the Khorn. What is the efficiency if the K-Horns? There are some ribbons that might possibly work such as the Arum Cantus G1@102db 1W/M. Fountek has one that I believe has the same sensitivity. Both of the above are priced + $300.00 U.S. This would seem to be a case of needing the rest of the drivers to come up to the standards of the tweeters. There are some Piezo horns that are even more expensive, but IMO it would be much simpler and cost effective to put your money and time into something from a more recent century. I seem to recall that the advertised efficiency of the Khorns is 104 dB/watt, so 102 would work. I can't see wanting any more highs out of the Khorns myself personally. I would pad the mids and tweets down a few dB myself. |
#33
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Lionel said:
Sorry but they have said NON ! - NON = 55% - OUI = 45% So I heard......that's a pity, really. -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
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Sander deWaal said: So I heard......that's a pity, really. From my vantage point, it's always seemed there were two forces impeding the progress of Europe toward modernity: corruption and the French. |
#35
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George M. Middius a écrit :
Sander deWaal said: So I heard......that's a pity, really. From my vantage point, it's always seemed there were two forces impeding the progress of Europe toward modernity: corruption and the French. LOL, it is funny to receive a lesson of politic from a guy who has actively participated to the reelection of G.W. Bush ! :-D Since by "modernity" you surely mean "US tutelage" we aren't interest in this kind of "progress", and we are proud of that. ;-) |
#36
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Sander deWaal a écrit :
Lionel said: Sorry but they have said NON ! - NON = 55% - OUI = 45% So I heard......that's a pity, really. Sorry again. At least I hope that it will provide the necessary "electrochoc" to your compatriots. :-( |
#37
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"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote in message Sander deWaal said: So I heard......that's a pity, really. From my vantage point, it's always seemed there were two forces impeding the progress of Europe toward modernity: corruption and the French. I personally thought it was those savage, barbaric Norsemen that we have in the union - the Swedes and the Danes. |
#38
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In , Schizoid Man wrote :
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote in message Sander deWaal said: So I heard......that's a pity, really. From my vantage point, it's always seemed there were two forces impeding the progress of Europe toward modernity: corruption and the French. I personally thought it was those savage, barbaric Norsemen that we have in the union - the Swedes and the Danes. Please don't play Middius game. Middius doesn't understand Europe and when Middius doesn't understand he tries to discredit. His above garbage is just the expression of his megalomaniac, jingoist and nationalist conception of the politics. In this he is nearly worst that ScottW, yes really. Middius hasn't any future so he isn't a constructor just a sterile and stupid individualist, nihilist. |
#39
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Lionel wrote: a =E9crit : The total failure of Citroen in the US had to do a lot with things like abysmal dealer support, slothlike acceleration, and a total disregard for U.S. driving conditions. And the Citroen cars were kinda weird and only attracted a cult following in the US. Vehicles like the Mehari just weren't suited for the US either. American have the same behaviour for cars than for team sports. Huh? They are totaly unable to communicate their needs, their interest to the rest of the world. The US is the world's biggest car market, so there's plenty of opportunity in the US. If a car maker can't succeed in the US, it's because the car maker can't communicate the car's attractions to US customers and is unwilling to make the effort to succeed in the US. Another problem for French automakers in the US is that they come and go from the US market. The French makers don't make the commitment to stay and succeed. For example, both Peugot and Renault have entered and left the US market at least twice. In contrast, German, Japanese, Korean, and Swedish makers came into the US market and have stuck it out through thick and thin. If Citroen really wanted to make the effort and investment in the US that many other foreign makers have, Citroen might succeed in the US. I understand that Renault owns a big chunk of Nissan now. So that's the only French presence and success in the US now, and a lot Nissan's success has (IMHO) to do with the fact that Nissan (under the Datsun and Nissan brand names) entered the US market 40 or so years ago, never left, and built vehicles such as the Z cars and SUVs that suit US tastes. Success in the US ain't rocket science. ;-) |
#40
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Schizoid Man said: From my vantage point, it's always seemed there were two forces impeding the progress of Europe toward modernity: corruption and the French. I personally thought it was those savage, barbaric Norsemen that we have in the union - the Swedes and the Danes. Which caste are you referring to? |
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