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Dude Japan Dude Japan is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. There is one in my parents house, for example, that bugs the
dickens outta' me. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?


Dude Japan wrote:
I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


You want a Variac.

http://www.variac.com/staco_variable...ormer_100_.htm

You'll need to find a real electrical supply house to buy one. Most of
the "home improvement" stores sell only the SCR dimmers, which make
acoustic as well as electrical noise and are bad news for a studio. A
Variac will cost you about $100 brand new but people seem to sell them
for about half that on eBay.

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Dude Japan Dude Japan is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?


$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?

Mike Rivers wrote:
You want a Variac.

http://www.variac.com/staco_variable...ormer_100_.htm

You'll need to find a real electrical supply house to buy one. Most of
the "home improvement" stores sell only the SCR dimmers, which make
acoustic as well as electrical noise and are bad news for a studio. A
Variac will cost you about $100 brand new but people seem to sell them
for about half that on eBay.


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Richard Amirault Richard Amirault is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

"Dude Japan" wrote ...

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?

Mike Rivers wrote:
You want a Variac.


A Variac is *not* a "switch". It's a large, heavy variable transformer type
of unit. It will *not* fit in your wall, but has to stand alone on a table.

The word you were thinking about is "rheostat" .. which was an early form of
dimmer that has/had no "electronics" of any kind. What is sold nowadays are
electronic dimmers .. and that's what give the interference problem.

By the way .. you wern't specific .. about the "noise" that is bugging you.
Many modern dimmers produce electrical or radio interference. At first I
thought this is what you meant, but are you saying that the dimmer makes
noise you can hear directly with your ears?

If the latter I would just try different models until you found one that
doesn't make an audible noise.

--
Richard Amirault N1JDU Boston,
MA, USA
n1jdu.org "Go Fly A Kite"


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Joe Boerst Joe Boerst is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

An electrician can provide you with an in the wall mount Variac.

Richard Amirault wrote:
"Dude Japan" wrote ...

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?

Mike Rivers wrote:

You want a Variac.



A Variac is *not* a "switch". It's a large, heavy variable transformer type
of unit. It will *not* fit in your wall, but has to stand alone on a table.

The word you were thinking about is "rheostat" .. which was an early form of
dimmer that has/had no "electronics" of any kind. What is sold nowadays are
electronic dimmers .. and that's what give the interference problem.

By the way .. you wern't specific .. about the "noise" that is bugging you.
Many modern dimmers produce electrical or radio interference. At first I
thought this is what you meant, but are you saying that the dimmer makes
noise you can hear directly with your ears?

If the latter I would just try different models until you found one that
doesn't make an audible noise.



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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

"Dude Japan" wrote ...
$100? that's crazy for a switch!


A switch you can get most anywhere for less than a buck.
We thought you were asking about light dimmers.

The small modern kind that are used everywhere are NOT
welcome in studios for the very reasons you wrote to us.
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[email protected] philipperanger@hotmail.com is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?

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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

wrote ...
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?


No, because it doesn't cause any significant "slicing" of the
mains sinewave form (like a SCR dimmer does).

But it might cause visible flicker as the filament(s) are getting
only every-other pulse of current.
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Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

"Richard Crowley" writes:

wrote ...
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?


No, because it doesn't cause any significant "slicing" of the
mains sinewave form (like a SCR dimmer does).


But it might cause visible flicker as the filament(s) are getting
only every-other pulse of current.


IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), *some* power diodes will have a nasty
transient at conduct/non-conduct. This might or might not be a problem in
the RF range, but a snubber cap parallel with the diode should take care
of the problem.

Some of the higher-end electronic dimmers (US$40+ vs. $2.95) will be a
little quieter but indeed a variac is the best way to go.

One approach is to fit the wattage you need for the light you need while
running full on (no dimmer), and then have another set of worklights if
you need more light from time to time.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio

--
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

"Frank Stearns" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" writes:
wrote ...
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise
as
well?


No, because it doesn't cause any significant "slicing" of the
mains sinewave form (like a SCR dimmer does).


But it might cause visible flicker as the filament(s) are getting
only every-other pulse of current.


IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), *some* power diodes will have a
nasty
transient at conduct/non-conduct. This might or might not be a problem
in
the RF range, but a snubber cap parallel with the diode should take
care
of the problem.


Around 0.6v (for silicon)
That is what I call "insignificant"
YMMV.



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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?


Dude Japan wrote:
$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?


A Variac isn't a switch. It's a variable transformer. You wanted a
"fader" didn't you?

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?


Richard Amirault wrote:

A Variac is *not* a "switch". It's a large, heavy variable transformer type
of unit. It will *not* fit in your wall, but has to stand alone on a table.


For reasonable home-style lighting, a 2A variac is sufficient. They
make those in a panel-mounted version specifically intended to mount in
a wall. It won't mount in a switchbox like an SCR dimmer, but they're
about 3 inches in diameter and less than 3 inches deep.

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Dude Japan wrote:
I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. There is one in my parents house, for example, that bugs the
dickens outta' me. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


Just don't do it.

If you absolutely HAVE to do it, spend the money and get an autotransformer
dimmer (a "Variac"). Expect to spend a _lot_ more than for those crappy
consumer SCR dimmers, and a lot more for the box it'll have to go into.

There are some industrial SCR dimmers that claim to be "filtered" but they
are still major RFI sources. They are better than the Wal-Mart crap but
you still don't want them anywhere near your studio.

One alternative is to use a switchbox that throws various numbers of lights
in series with one another. You only get one or two discrete dimming
levels, but there are zero RFI issues, and it's a lot cheaper than a
variac.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Dude Japan wrote:

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?


You _might_ find a Variac surplus for $100, but you won't find anything
new in that range, and you should count on a couple hundred bucks for
a vented NEMA box.

Typical studio installs will actually have motor-operated variacs in
an equipment closet somewhere, with remote control buttons on the studio
wall. This gets even the autotransformer box out of the studio.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

wrote:
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?


Yes, to some extent. It's not as bad, though, but if you just want a half
step, throw two fixtures in series.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Frank Stearns" wrote ...

IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), *some* power diodes will have a
nasty
transient at conduct/non-conduct. This might or might not be a problem
in
the RF range, but a snubber cap parallel with the diode should take
care
of the problem.


Around 0.6v (for silicon)
That is what I call "insignificant"


Throw a couple hundred amps into that 0.6V drop and you can have a really
annoying RFI source.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Jay Kadis Jay Kadis is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

In article . com,
"Dude Japan" wrote:

I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. There is one in my parents house, for example, that bugs the
dickens outta' me. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


You can just switch each track on/off separately to change the overall
amount of light. If you have several tracks this can work fairly well
without a dimmer.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Dude Japan wrote:

$100? that's crazy for a switch!


That's because it's not a switch. It's crazy to call it that.

Find out what it is and how it works, and then understand.

--
ha


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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
ups.com
Dude Japan wrote:
I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off
a buzzing noise. Can someone recommend a specific light
dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


You want a Variac.

http://www.variac.com/staco_variable...ormer_100_.htm

You'll need to find a real electrical supply house to buy
one. Most of the "home improvement" stores sell only the
SCR dimmers, which make acoustic as well as electrical
noise and are bad news for a studio. A Variac will cost
you about $100 brand new but people seem to sell them for
about half that on eBay.


Most variacs make a fair amount of acoustical hum, especially under load.


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anahata anahata is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Frank Stearns" wrote ...

IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), *some* power diodes will have a nasty
transient at conduct/non-conduct.


Around 0.6v (for silicon)
That is what I call "insignificant"


It's not the 0.6V diode forward voltage drop, if anything it's the
reverse recovery time. When the diode goes from conduction to reverse
bias there can be a short delay before it shuts off, allowing a little
reverse current to flow initially. Then it cuts off suddenly which can
cause a small transient.

Even so, not liklely to be a problem, but use of diodes like this is
unsatifactory because it makes the lights flicker enough to be
distracting. The alternative suggestion of dimming one step by switching
bulbs in series is better, or simply having several banks of lights and
switching them on and off as needed.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?


Arny Krueger wrote:

Most variacs make a fair amount of acoustical hum, especially under load.


The big ones do, the little ones are pretty quiet. But the little ones
cost $100. The big ones cost thousands and you put them in a closet.

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jeffreydesign jeffreydesign is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

My father was a Master Electrician who wired MANY well-known studios in
Los Angeles and Orange County, CA. I asked him about this and he told
me the answer is two-fold; first a low voltage solution takes the 60Hz
hum out of the room and and remote switching removes the actual
controls to a remote location in the studio where they are soundproofed
(like a acousticaly dampened wiring closet.)

These controls can be one or the other solution or both. He told me
most "high-end" studios use remote controls (radio or infrared) to dim
studio lighting. These lighting systems are not inexpensive, however
you can put something together ad-hoc that will accomplish the same
thing; check www.dimmers.net and look at RadioRA systems which are a
cheap version of the commercial systems that the studios use (for
example.)

As a side note, dad says never use flourescent lighting anywhere in a
studio, period. All wiring should be properly isolated (in other words,
booth wiring should have it's own circuits isolated from studio outlets
and lighting at the bare minimum) and conditioned. He says there are
many studio noise problems that stem from improper electrical
installations. He ought to know, he's 73 (semi-retired) and is still a
paid consultant for several large commercial studios and film
production houses.

-Jeff




Dude Japan wrote:
I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. There is one in my parents house, for example, that bugs the
dickens outta' me. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



Dude Japan wrote:

I am aware that some light faders (rayostats?) give off a buzzing
noise. There is one in my parents house, for example, that bugs the
dickens outta' me. Can someone recommend a specific light dimmer for
the track lighting that I am putting in my studio room?


Top studios use DC lighting. AC always has problems.

Graham




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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



wrote:

Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?


Yes, because it 'chops' the waveform.

Graham


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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



Richard Crowley wrote:

wrote ...
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise as
well?


No, because it doesn't cause any significant "slicing" of the
mains sinewave form (like a SCR dimmer does).


Not true actually.

Graham

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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



Richard Crowley wrote:

"Frank Stearns" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" writes:
wrote ...
Does using a single diode as a half power step introduces RF noise
as well?


No, because it doesn't cause any significant "slicing" of the
mains sinewave form (like a SCR dimmer does).


But it might cause visible flicker as the filament(s) are getting
only every-other pulse of current.


IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), *some* power diodes will have a
nasty
transient at conduct/non-conduct. This might or might not be a problem
in the RF range, but a snubber cap parallel with the diode should take
care of the problem.


Around 0.6v (for silicon)
That is what I call "insignificant"
YMMV.


Diodes have what's called a 'recovery' problem that creates RF.

It has nothing to do with the forward voltage drop.

Graham


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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



Scott Dorsey wrote:

Dude Japan wrote:

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?


You _might_ find a Variac surplus for $100, but you won't find anything
new in that range, and you should count on a couple hundred bucks for
a vented NEMA box.

Typical studio installs will actually have motor-operated variacs in
an equipment closet somewhere, with remote control buttons on the studio
wall. This gets even the autotransformer box out of the studio.


My friend who does studio installs uses variable voltage DC lighting using an
adjustable output SMPS with 12V halogen fixtures.

Now *that* is silent.

Graham

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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



jeffreydesign wrote:

As a side note, dad says never use flourescent lighting anywhere in a
studio, period.


Actually it can be done using solid-state 'ballasts' carefully and fitting a
fine metal ( stainless steel ) sock over the tube and grounding it.

Not for the faint-hearted.

Graham



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?

Eeyore wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dude Japan wrote:

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?


You _might_ find a Variac surplus for $100, but you won't find anything
new in that range, and you should count on a couple hundred bucks for
a vented NEMA box.

Typical studio installs will actually have motor-operated variacs in
an equipment closet somewhere, with remote control buttons on the studio
wall. This gets even the autotransformer box out of the studio.


My friend who does studio installs uses variable voltage DC lighting using an
adjustable output SMPS with 12V halogen fixtures.

Now *that* is silent.


Aside from the RF hash from the switching supply!
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default light fader recommendations for studio rooms?



Scott Dorsey wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dude Japan wrote:

$100? that's crazy for a switch! I guess I'll settle for a simple
switch. Is there nothing else?

You _might_ find a Variac surplus for $100, but you won't find anything
new in that range, and you should count on a couple hundred bucks for
a vented NEMA box.

Typical studio installs will actually have motor-operated variacs in
an equipment closet somewhere, with remote control buttons on the studio
wall. This gets even the autotransformer box out of the studio.


My friend who does studio installs uses variable voltage DC lighting using an
adjustable output SMPS with 12V halogen fixtures.

Now *that* is silent.


Aside from the RF hash from the switching supply!


It's in the machine room with all the PCs and Macs and ethernet hubs, telecoms,
etc......


Graham

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