[geoff]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not confer any
special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as (technically)
flawed as some of those early solo records - truly dreadful !

geoff

[Sean Conolly]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not confer
any special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as (technically)
flawed as some of those early solo records - truly dreadful !

Ignoring the techincal quality, Shaved Fish was an album that I loved for
it's high points, and couldn't believe how bad it was at it's low points.
It's just the raw output of a brilliant creator, warts and all.

Sean

[ChrisCoaster]

On May 1, 1:13*am, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not confer
any special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as (technically)
flawed as some of those early solo records - truly dreadful !

Ignoring the techincal quality, Shaved Fish was an album that I loved for
it's high points, and couldn't believe how bad it was at it's low points.
It's just the raw output of a brilliant creator, warts and all.

Sean
_____________________
Can you guys hash out some of the technical shortcomings of "Imagine"
and "Shaved Fish"? I guess I was just too blinded by the genious of
John Lennon to notice any issues with the albums/tracks themselves.

-ChrisCoaster
Intimidator At Carowinds - "Don't try to place a drink on THIS
coaster!"

[Mike Rivers]

On 5/1/2011 2:51 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Can you guys hash out some of the technical shortcomings of "Imagine"
and "Shaved Fish"?

Can you do it somewhere else, unless you're talking about
sonic or technical production qualities?

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[geoff]

ChrisCoaster wrote:
On May 1, 1:13 am, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not
confer any special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as
(technically) flawed as some of those early solo records - truly
dreadful !

Ignoring the techincal quality, Shaved Fish was an album that I
loved for it's high points, and couldn't believe how bad it was at
it's low points. It's just the raw output of a brilliant creator,
warts and all.

Harsh clangy mids (yeah, some of that is JLs voice), indistinct fluffy bass,
disappearing drums, Wall Of Sound, in an unpleasant way. Jerky rough mixing
that lost focus of the individuial parts which melded into a harsh
cacophony.

Even Imagine (the song) - they put too many mattresses rugs and blankets on
top of the piano, and that crude panning thing at the intro.

Double Fantasy was certainly up *lots* of notches in all departments.

Of course all of this has little to do with songwriting, performance, or
passion.

geoff


geoff

..

[ChrisCoaster]

On May 2, 4:23*pm, "geoff" wrote:
ChrisCoaster wrote:
On May 1, 1:13 am, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

om...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not
confer any special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as
(technically) flawed as some of those early solo records - truly
dreadful !

Ignoring the techincal quality, Shaved Fish was an album that I
loved for it's high points, and couldn't believe how bad it was at
it's low points. It's just the raw output of a brilliant creator,
warts and all.

Harsh clangy mids (yeah, some of that is JLs voice), indistinct fluffy bass,
disappearing drums, Wall Of Sound, in an unpleasant way. Jerky rough mixing
that lost focus of the individuial parts which melded into a harsh
cacophony.

Even Imagine (the song) - they put too many mattresses rugs and blankets on
top of the piano, and that crude *panning thing at the intro.

Double Fantasy was certainly up *lots* of notches in all departments.

Of course all of this has little to do with songwriting, performance, or
passion.

geoff

geoff

.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
_____________________

Thanks Geoff for getting it - what I wanted to discuss. (mike r:
what did you think I wanted to discuss - JL's politics? What Yoko
wore to the recording sessions?)

Yes, at the beginning of Imagine, just before JL sings, the stereo
image "widens" noticeably - but at least stays that way - no weird
panning or other spatial effects later in the song.

Happy Christmas sounded a little 'ragged', imo. But even my mp3 of
that song reveals dynamic nuances you'll never hear on a mass-market
FM outlet like NY's Q-104.3 classic rock station.

In the future I'd like to "break down" technical aspects of other
classic rock(and other genres of course) albums, items such as but not
limited to: excessive compression, inappropriate panning, over-EQing,
noticeable tape hiss, tape wow, audible splice artifacts, etc. I
actually get a kick out of stuff like this!

-CC

[geoff]

ChrisCoaster wrote:

Yes, at the beginning of Imagine, just before JL sings, the stereo
image "widens" noticeably - but at least stays that way - no weird
panning or other spatial effects later in the song.

Just about snaps your neck if listening to it on 'phones'. ;-)

geoff

[Christopher001]

Originally Posted by geoff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13239616

But going by even the recently remastered tracks, they would not confer any
special level of 'quality'.

Fortunately I don't think I've ever recorded anything as (technically)
flawed as some of those early solo records - truly dreadful !

geoff

the given link is not working properly...can you give me a solution?

[dogn4u]

What kind of mikes? Telefunken? Neumann? SM57s?

[ChrisCoaster]

On May 3, 1:47*am, "geoff" wrote:
ChrisCoaster wrote:
Yes, at the beginning of Imagine, just before JL sings, the stereo
image "widens" noticeably - but at least stays that way - no weird
panning or other spatial effects later in the song.

Just about snaps your neck if *listening to it on 'phones'. *;-)

geoff
_________________
Now not to drift, but, most of my collegues and friends would probably
consider my can collection "high end" compared to what they probably
wear to work on the train or have at home: MDR-7506, HD-280, and
SR-440(shures). Just breaking into the $100-150 range for full-size
headphones has been like completing the Louisiana Purchase for me -
LOL! I hear so many more imperfections, both of mp3s and of tracks on
CD.

My hearing since the 1970s has actually improved dramatically -
although I dont think I will ever recover anything over 14kHZ(listened
too loud in highschool over screechy walkman headphones!!). I had
severe wax buildup and ear tubes back then, not to mention constant
exposure to 2nd hand smoke. I'm eating better now(more fruits and
veggies) periodic digestive cleanses, and my audio-grams from 2009
blow away those done in '79! Go figure!

Back then I was sensitive to sounds from only 400Hz - 6kHZ, and the
loudest were between 2-4kHZ. I don't know if I'll make the leap to
Beyer 880s or 990s, or a mid-line Grado, but here's the thing, with
headphones that are over-the-ear BUT open-back, that means not only
will others hear MY music, but I will hear EVERYTHING in my
environment - unless I really play them loud. And I refer you back to
the previous paragraph so you'll realize why that won't be
necessary.

As "Summer Breeze"(Seals & Crofts version) opens up, you can hear the
tape hiss of the layering on of additional instruments and of the
opening vocals. I find that cool to be able to hear that nowadays.
Even mid-line home stereos probably could not reveal that back when
the song first released.

-ChrisCoaster

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

dogn4u wrote:

What kind of mikes? Telefunken? Neumann? SM57s?

On video's he sings into something that looks EV "stage range" to me. The
sound on the Imagine album is an artistic choice that one may or may not
agree in, but I think it is intentionally awful or "livelike" in a
minimalistic approach that I had undertaken differently.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[ChrisCoaster]

On May 7, 1:29*pm, "Peter Larsen" wrote:
dogn4u wrote:
What kind of mikes? Telefunken? Neumann? SM57s?

On video's he sings into something that looks EV "stage range" to me. The
sound on the Imagine album is an artistic choice that one may or may not
agree in, but I think it is intentionally awful or "livelike" in a
minimalistic approach that I had undertaken differently.

* Kind regards

* Peter Larsen
____________________
We'll never know for sure. The artist behind that album has been out
of the building for 30 years and some months now. ..

Intentionally awful?? Must go a little easy on the tobasco sauce next
time with a comment like that (!) Sometimes a creative decision by
an artist or producer may sound great to them, but come off horrid to
2/3rds of the public buying the album/downloading the track. But I
don't think anyone purposely makes something sound awful, unless it's
some idiot compressing The Police tracks on the order of 30.0:1 to
illustrate commercial FM's abuse of compressio - HEY - that's ME!
LOL LOL!! -)

The only artist that comes to mind that came *close* to intentionally
awful was Frank Zappa - particularly the last 45sec. or so of "Toads
Of The Short Forest". Just WHAT was THAT all about? Or, William
Shatner "rendering" Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds! Full noise
suppression, please, Scotty!

-CC

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-07 said:
On May 7, 1:29ÿpm, "Peter Larsen" wrote:
The sound on the Imagine album is an artistic choice that one
may or may not agree in, but I think it is intentionally awful or
"livelike" in a minimalistic approach that I had undertaken
differently.
We'll never know for sure. The artist behind that album has been
out of the building for 30 years and some months now. ..
Intentionally awful?? Must go a little easy on the tobasco sauce
next time with a comment like that (!) Sometimes a creative
decision by an artist or producer may sound great to them, but come
off horrid to 2/3rds of the public buying the album/downloading the
track. But I don't think anyone purposely makes something sound
awful, ... snip

This falls into the beauty is in the eye of te beerholder
category, I would have found a different way to convey the
immediacy that I think JOhn was going for than he did on
some of those tracks myself, but ...

The only way I"ll ever purposefully release anything low fi
or whatever other name you wish to put on it is if the song
and the arrangement were perfect, and put the song across as
I"d like it to be remembered, and heard. But in those
cases, song plus arrangement trumps recording quality.

I think that was one of the reasons I was always rather
lukewarm on LEnnon's solo material, but then my favorite
beatles work has always been that done as a collboration,
with George Martin. Those I could listen to again, and
again, but I never really saw the need to buy Lennon's solo
material, as I could hear the tracks that became popular or
that I might want to hear occasionally elsewhere.

Regards,



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com