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#1
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14.4 vs. 12.5 VOLTS
I understand that most specs revolve around 14.4 volts and as a result
wattages are lower for 12.5 volts. What is applicable to us? A regular car battery is 12.5 correct? |
#2
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#3
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This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok, so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm. Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6 subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference. -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! |
#4
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"Scott Gardner" wrote in message ... On 15 Mar 2005 17:41:20 -0800, (Flashovr29) wrote: In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's anything to worry about. Actually, it's something I worry about a great deal! I have a Rockford Punch 225.2 (450 watts x 1) as my sub amp and believe me, it matters a great deal whether it is getting 12.5 or 14 volts. I have taken great pains to assure my amps get every last tenth of a volt. Besides the usual scheme of using heavy gauge wire to my amps, I also have added heavy gauge ground wires to my battery and alternator. If this is not done, I find the voltage differential between the grounds at the amp and the grounds at the battery/alternator can be as much as two tenths of a volt. Remember, voltage is a measure of an electrical difference. You can work on both sides of the equation to maximize voltage, most people just focus on the positive side. MOSFET |
#5
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Actually, it's something I worry about a great deal!
I have a Rockford Punch 225.2 (450 watts x 1) as my sub amp and believe me, it matters a great deal whether it is getting 12.5 or 14 volts. I have taken great pains to assure my amps get every last tenth of a volt. Besides the usual scheme of using heavy gauge wire to my amps, I also have added heavy gauge ground wires to my battery and alternator. If this is not done, I find the voltage differential between the grounds at the amp and the grounds at the battery/alternator can be as much as two tenths of a volt. Remember, voltage is a measure of an electrical difference. You can work on both sides of the equation to maximize voltage, most people just focus on the positive side. While there may be a slight difference in sound between listening to the audio system at a steady 12.5 vs. 14.5, the transient drop associated with high current draws (either due to the cable's resistance, the alternator's output impedance, or the amplifier's output impedance) isn't noticable by ear. In other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry about. |
#6
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just to add, I know someone mentioned I would make a repair tech happy because running at higher voltages can damage the amp. Well, that would be true if this was a run of the mill Fosgate amp Class AB with regulated power supply, but it's not. These two HC4002 amps are HIGH CURRENT. I am not saying they can take 17-18 volts and be cool, but the recommended rating is 14-15 volts. This is where they can work best. And yes, to another comment, I could not have tested the voltage nor the wattage output without a meter -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! |
#7
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"MZ" wrote in message ... n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry about. Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling me that and making me wonder if I have wasted my time! MOSFET |
#8
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MOSFET wrote: "MZ" wrote in message ... n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry about. Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling me that and making me wonder if I have wasted my time! MOSFET You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra 2.5VDC is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a perceivable difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself from the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never have to post a stupid response again. |
#9
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wrote in message ups.com... You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra 2.5VDC is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a perceivable difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself from the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never have to post a stupid response again. Forget your meds today? MOSFET |
#11
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Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid
question!!!! P.S. DIE!!!!!!! |
#12
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wrote in message oups.com... Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid question!!!! P.S. DIE!!!!!!! You and mmdir2002 should get together. You have soooo much in common. MOSFET PS: Not dead yet! |
#13
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MOSFET wrote: "MZ" wrote in message ... n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry about. Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling me that and making me wonder if I have wasted my time! MOSFET MOSFET, you do not know nothing about electronic stuff. There is no difference of output sound if amp is supply by 1.44DC Volts or 12.5DC Volts. Amp input voltage is DC (direct current) and the output audio is AC (alternative current), therefore output AC current will not changed by the small different of input DC voltage. Of course, big different of input DC voltage will either destory Amp or does not work at all. You are just another ignorant guy on electronic knowledge. |
#14
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wrote in message oups.com... Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid question!!!! P.S. DIE!!!!!!! Oh Angry Flamer Guy (AFG), where are you? You haven't reponded to my last message. This was just getting interesting. MOSFET Oh where oh where has my AFG gone.... |
#15
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MOSFET wrote: wrote in message ups.com... You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra 2.5VDC is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a perceivable difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself from the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never have to post a stupid response again. Forget your meds today? MOSFET did you say that extra 2.5V will give you extra push on Amp output??? Man MOSFET I have to honestly say that you are one stupid ignorant one. Did you ever study electronic before? Do you know why extra 2.5V will NOT give an extra push on Amp output? |
#16
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wrote in message oups.com... MOSFET, you do not know nothing about electronic stuff. There is no difference of output sound if amp is supply by 1.44DC Volts or 12.5DC Volts. Amp input voltage is DC (direct current) and the output audio is AC (alternative current), therefore output AC current will not changed by the small different of input DC voltage. Of course, big different of input DC voltage will either destory Amp or does not work at all. You are just another ignorant guy on electronic knowledge. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're an idiot. Stop posting. MOSFET |
#17
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wrote in message ups.com... did you say that extra 2.5V will give you extra push on Amp output??? Man MOSFET I have to honestly say that you are one stupid ignorant one. Did you ever study electronic before? Do you know why extra 2.5V will NOT give an extra push on Amp output? How come when you want to you can actually make a little sense? That's strange. I can't believe I'm actually going to rationally answer mmdir2002, but here goes... With an unregulated amp, 2.5 volts WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE in output!!! Noticable? Maybe, it depends. But, yes, it makes a difference. Again, you are showing how little you know! MOSFET |
#18
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Why don't you try yourself on your amp if 2.5V difference will make any differenct in your amp output? |
#19
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Because i'm right and you are wrong. I just proved to you you don't anything about electronic. |
#20
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MOSFET wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid question!!!! P.S. DIE!!!!!!! You and mmdir2002 should get together. You have soooo much in common. MOSFET PS: Not dead yet! Did you ever study electronic before? Why can't you answer that? Do you think car stereo tech would know about electronic other than pick out different stereo brand label? |
#21
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now now brown cow. the admin doesn't like swearing, which you as a child have GOT to learn no to do. second, never put someone down that you do not know, another childish tendency. i think you need to take some mushrooms and dissolve that ego of yours bud, think it's about time. if you want to get yourself kicked off the forum even as a GUEST, which would be completely lame, go for it. if you don't like what i have to say, or if you don't agree with it, then don't. i could care less what a child has to say. children are stupid, they flip out easily, which you are no doubt doing. i know what i have. i know what i USED to hit, and i know what i hit now. if you can't follow a simple formula, voltage=amperage x resistance, or voltage=wattage/amperage, or even voltage=the square root of wattage x resistance, then obviously you're a child who has not yet completed eigth grade physics....go take a nap and calm down like a good girl and come back when you're ready to talk like an adult -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! |
#22
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#23
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Just for fun ... let's notice that mmdir said 1.44V DC and 12.5V DC input
will produce relatively same output. So ... anyways, we all know that he meant 14.4V DC (don't we? maybe??) However, that statement really has absolutely zero to do with the next pearl of wisdom ... "output current will not change with a small change of input voltage" (I paraphrased a little for those who prefer a hint of proper grammar) He bases this opinion on the well know fact that the input to an amp is DC and the output from an amp is AC ?!? What the hell does this have to do with anything? In conclusion ... 14.4V is a 15% increase over 12.5V. As mentioned in previous posts by people that actually know what they are talking about (eg. MZ) this won't amount to a hill of beans IF THE AMP HAS A REGULATED POWER SUPPLY. For those using old school stuff that doesn't have a decent regulated PS ... that extra 15% will certainly give more headroom. (notice there is no mention of an audible difference at normal listening levels) Actually, most amps today aren't tightly regulated. That's why it's common to see two different ratings. If there's an increase in power of 15%, then that amounts to very little improvement. And, when we're talking about voltage fluctuations while the stereo is playing with the car on, the difference becomes inaudible (if it isn't already). Humans simply can't perceive sub-1dB transients of that kind of duration. |
#24
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well, I sure did my share of tuning the place up as well. though some people here acted in ways that I cannot understand, especially for grown adults, I am assuming everyone here is to be considered an adult, I too will apologize on behalf of stepping on toes by merely stating my experience with this particular subject. I am hoping the person who originally inquired about this has gotten something out of it more than seeing how battles erupt. there really was equal resistance (no pun intended) of opinion (for lack of better words considering no one with "proof" from either side wanted to hear about the "proof" from either side, therefore a "fact" was never proven and the whole conversation has squabbled itself down to opinion bashing). so, I guess from this point all the original questionee can do is experiment for his/her own self and find out what their "proof", or "opinion", is. good luck! -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213578 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! |
#25
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"Waldodamon" wrote in message news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews... This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok, so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm. Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6 subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference. -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail voltage to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out. The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain in a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating the VC with the first 3000 watts. This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are gonna make some repair tech really happy soon. Chad |
#26
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:
This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. |
#27
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"MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it. I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the difference, right Mark. MOSFET |
#28
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wrote in message ups.com... Why don't you try yourself on your amp if 2.5V difference will make any differenct in your amp output? Hey mmdir2002, before you post another stupid thing on this subject, try RESEARCHING it a little. I have 15 years of test reports (in car audio magazines) showing that there is for some amps a SIGNIFICANT increase in wattage from 12.5 to 14.4 volts. Go research the Accuvolt and see what Dr. Jacobs has to say on the subject. You are an idiot, go away. MOSFET |
#29
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"MOSFET" wrote in message news "MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it. I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the difference, right Mark. MOSFET You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the added stress to the amp? It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the finals. Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements? Chad |
#30
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"Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "MOSFET" wrote in message news "MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it. I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the difference, right Mark. MOSFET You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the added stress to the amp? It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the finals. Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements? Chad Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a new (more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer. Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with loosely regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have 15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are they lying? Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all I'm saying. Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying (what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference. MOSFET |
#31
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"Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "Waldodamon" wrote in message news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews... This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok, so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm. Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6 subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference. -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail voltage to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out. The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain in a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating the VC with the first 3000 watts. This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are gonna make some repair tech really happy soon. Chad Chad, do you have any back copies of AS&S, CSR, CA&E? How do you explain the changes in wattage when voltages are changed in test reports? Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do they do this if it doesn't matter? Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge. It's kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are arguing as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps produce more wattage with more voltage). MOSFET |
#32
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"MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Mark, instead of just saying something sarcastic to this guy who obviously has some knowledge and good test equipment (those Ohio generators don't come cheap), perhaps we could hear WHY he has rewritten the laws of physics. Frankly, if you're not going to explain yourself, this hit-and-run kind of posting basically amounts to a cheap shot and I would expect more from you. MOSFET |
#33
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Simple ohms law can clear it up
P=I*E (watts = Volts * Amps) if you increase the voltage or amps the watts will increase also. This will only be true for nonregulated amps. regulated amps will keep the voltage the same regardless of input voltage (to a point). Weather you can hear a difference is a different story. but I believe you can tell a difference. I agree with Chad that running at higher voltage puts more stress on the transistors. Low voltage is just as dangerous if not more so, as it can cause the Amplifer to draw more Current to produce the desired output. Low Voltage is usually what causes amps to overheat. -- The Clown Prince of Car Stereo "MOSFET" wrote in message ... "Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "MOSFET" wrote in message news "MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it. I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the difference, right Mark. MOSFET You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the added stress to the amp? It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the finals. Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements? Chad Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a new (more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer. Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with loosely regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have 15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are they lying? Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all I'm saying. Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying (what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference. MOSFET |
#34
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"joe.ker" wrote in message news:KFZZd.8255$oa6.1157@trnddc07... Simple ohms law can clear it up P=I*E (watts = Volts * Amps) if you increase the voltage or amps the watts will increase also. This will only be true for nonregulated amps. regulated amps will keep the voltage the same regardless of input voltage (to a point). Weather you can hear a difference is a different story. but I believe you can tell a difference. I agree with Chad that running at higher voltage puts more stress on the transistors. Low voltage is just as dangerous if not more so, as it can cause the Amplifer to draw more Current to produce the desired output. Low Voltage is usually what causes amps to overheat. Yes, perfect. Well said. MOSFET |
#35
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"MOSFET" wrote in message ... "Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "MOSFET" wrote in message news "MZ" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote: This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten the laws of physics. Way to go. Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it. I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the difference, right Mark. MOSFET You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the added stress to the amp? It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the finals. Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements? Chad Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a new (more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer. Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with loosely regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have 15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are they lying? Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all I'm saying. Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying (what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference. MOSFET I hear ya, The point that I was making is that running an amplifier over it's specified voltage is not likely to make a difference worth the risk, The transformers will saturate etc. But the difference you had from 11 some-odd volts to 14.4.... hell yeah Chad |
#36
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"MOSFET" wrote in message ... "Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "Waldodamon" wrote in message news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews... This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok, so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm. Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6 subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference. -- Waldodamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waldodamon's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/me...p?userid=27319 View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=213518 CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail voltage to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out. The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain in a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating the VC with the first 3000 watts. This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are gonna make some repair tech really happy soon. Chad Chad, do you have any back copies of AS&S, CSR, CA&E? How do you explain the changes in wattage when voltages are changed in test reports? Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do they do this if it doesn't matter? Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge. It's kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are arguing as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps produce more wattage with more voltage). MOSFET |
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"MOSFET" wrote in message ... Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do they do this if it doesn't matter? Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge. It's kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are arguing as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps produce more wattage with more voltage). MOSFET I can get ANY AMP to put out oodles of power.... How long does it haveta do it for Chad |
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Just curious how did you test the output?
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"Waldodamon" wrote in message news:1110997664.fca609f51e53ac2313e84a8bbd3b61a4@t eranews... just to add, I know someone mentioned I would make a repair tech happy because running at higher voltages can damage the amp. Well, that would be true if this was a run of the mill Fosgate amp Class AB with regulated power supply, but it's not. These two HC4002 amps are HIGH CURRENT. I am not saying they can take 17-18 volts and be cool, but the recommended rating is 14-15 volts. This is where they can work best. And yes, to another comment, I could not have tested the voltage nor the wattage output without a meter And a dummy load? If not, after heating what was the impedance (not resistance) of the coils. Was this a true RMS signal or a peak reading with a data hold meter? And the voltage I am referring to is rail voltage at the output transistor. The ratio of this increase to the ratio of the input voltage increase gives representation of power supply loss (transformer core loss, etc) Chad |
#40
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Shut the **** up! You have never study electronic before. Your kind of car stereo tech is not electronicn technician at all. What do you know about inside of the amplifier? I asked you why 2.5V different will not make any differenct. You couldn't answer because you don't know. There is no car magazine showing signficicant incrased in output AC. You are making up from your ignorant take-no-prisoner dumb brain. |
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