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#1
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
After having finally found exactly what I was looking for in
the way of a portable CD player - the iRiver Slim-X iMP-350, a half inch thick, runs on NiMH rechargeables, plays any format you've ever heard of (and is software-upgradeable for those that haven't been invented yet), weighs damn near nothing, has a user-definable EQ curve (and five factory curves) as well as a balance control, mark and repeat track section capability, line out, FM tuner with 20 presets, a wired remote that lets you edit and specify all kinds of stuff, hell, if the damn thing could cook and wash dishes I'd chuck me old lady - I find myself on the horns of a dilemma. It comes with earbuds. Now, they sound way better than I ever expected they would, surprisingly good, in fact, but I just can't wear the damn things. Fifteen minutes with those nasty little buggers stuffed into my ears and I've got redness and soreness. No problem, I figured; hell, I own a music store, I'll just scarf a pair of good phones out of my stock (I have plenty of AKG and Audio Technica, as well as a couple of Samson models and some miscellaneous other stuff) and plug 'em in. Problem: the better headphones get, the higher the impedance they have. A pair of AKG K-240s would have been just fine with me, but they're 600 ohms, and the audio output section in the CD player is rated at twelve milliwatts/channel (!) across a 16-ohm load. Across 600 ohms, it develops nil point zippity-****. Damn near inaudible, in fact. I'm using a pair of AKG K-55s right now; they sound fair, but I still can't get the volume I'm looking for. (They're 32 ohms...~6 milliwatts ain't cuttin' it.) I checked out all my dealer catalogs, and some websites - Sennheiser, Sony, and AKG, and it looks like no-one that I can find out about is making 16-ohm cans any more. So how about it, folks - any help here? I want some 16-ohm cans that are in the AKG K-240 region quality-wise. Circumaural, closed back. (I can live with open back if I have to.) Who makes 'em? Lord Valve American |
#2
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
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#3
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
"Lord Valve" wrote in message
After having finally found exactly what I was looking for in the way of a portable CD player - the iRiver Slim-X iMP-350, a half inch thick, runs on NiMH rechargeables, plays any format you've ever heard of (and is software-upgradeable for those that haven't been invented yet), weighs damn near nothing, has a user-definable EQ curve (and five factory curves) as well as a balance control, mark and repeat track section capability, line out, FM tuner with 20 presets, a wired remote that lets you edit and specify all kinds of stuff, hell, if the damn thing could cook and wash dishes I'd chuck me old lady - I find myself on the horns of a dilemma. It comes with earbuds. Now, they sound way better than I ever expected they would, surprisingly good, in fact, but I just can't wear the damn things. Fifteen minutes with those nasty little buggers stuffed into my ears and I've got redness and soreness. You might want to try other earbuds. There are lots of options, some with custom-made inserts. No problem, I figured; hell, I own a music store, I'll just scarf a pair of good phones out of my stock (I have plenty of AKG and Audio Technica, as well as a couple of Samson models and some miscellaneous other stuff) and plug 'em in. Problem: the better headphones get, the higher the impedance they have. A pair of AKG K-240s would have been just fine with me, but they're 600 ohms, and the audio output section in the CD player is rated at twelve milliwatts/channel (!) across a 16-ohm load. Across 600 ohms, it develops nil point zippity-****. Damn near inaudible, in fact. I'm using a pair of AKG K-55s right now; they sound fair, but I still can't get the volume I'm looking for. (They're 32 ohms...~6 milliwatts ain't cuttin' it.) I checked out all my dealer catalogs, and some websites - Sennheiser, Sony, and AKG, and it looks like no-one that I can find out about is making 16-ohm cans any more. So how about it, folks - any help here? I want some 16-ohm cans that are in the AKG K-240 region quality-wise. Circumaural, closed back. (I can live with open back if I have to.) Who makes 'em? We've recently had some posts related to this very question. One idea involved transformers. The usual answer seems that if you want more dBs out of your portable audio gear, get a portable booster amp. |
#4
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Lord Valve wrote:
After having finally found exactly what I was looking for in the way of a portable CD player - the iRiver Slim-X iMP-350, a half inch thick, runs on NiMH rechargeables, plays any format you've ever heard of (and is software-upgradeable for those that haven't been invented yet), weighs damn near nothing, has a user-definable EQ curve (and five factory curves) as well as a balance control, mark and repeat track section capability, line out, FM tuner with 20 presets, a wired remote that lets you edit and specify all kinds of stuff, hell, if the damn thing could cook and wash dishes I'd chuck me old lady - I find myself on the horns of a dilemma. It comes with earbuds. Now, they sound way better than I ever expected they would, surprisingly good, in fact, but I just can't wear the damn things. Fifteen minutes with those nasty little buggers stuffed into my ears and I've got redness and soreness. No problem, I figured; hell, I own a music store, I'll just scarf a pair of good phones out of my stock (I have plenty of AKG and Audio Technica, as well as a couple of Samson models and some miscellaneous other stuff) and plug 'em in. Problem: the better headphones get, the higher the impedance they have. A pair of AKG K-240s would have been just fine with me, but they're 600 ohms, and the audio output section in the CD player is rated at twelve milliwatts/channel (!) across a 16-ohm load. Across 600 ohms, it develops nil point zippity-****. Damn near inaudible, in fact. I'm using a pair of AKG K-55s right now; they sound fair, but I still can't get the volume I'm looking for. (They're 32 ohms...~6 milliwatts ain't cuttin' it.) I checked out all my dealer catalogs, and some websites - Sennheiser, Sony, and AKG, and it looks like no-one that I can find out about is making 16-ohm cans any more. So how about it, folks - any help here? I want some 16-ohm cans that are in the AKG K-240 region quality-wise. Circumaural, closed back. (I can live with open back if I have to.) Who makes 'em? Lord Valve American Koss makes a bunch of little Walkman sized phones. One's 32 ohm, I beleive. -- Les Cargill |
#6
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
In rec.audio.pro, Lord Valve wrote:
After having finally found exactly what I was looking for in the way of a portable CD player - the iRiver Slim-X iMP-350, a half inch thick, runs on NiMH rechargeables, plays any format you've ever heard of (and is software-upgradeable for those that haven't been invented yet), weighs damn near nothing, has a user-definable EQ curve (and five factory curves) as well as a balance control, mark and repeat track section capability, line out, FM tuner with 20 presets, a wired remote that lets you edit and specify all kinds of stuff, hell, if the damn thing could cook and wash dishes I'd chuck me old lady - I find myself on the horns of a dilemma. It comes with earbuds. Now, they sound way better than I ever expected they would, surprisingly good, in fact, but I just can't wear the damn things. Fifteen minutes with those nasty little buggers stuffed into my ears and I've got redness and soreness. No problem, I figured; hell, I own a music store, I'll just scarf a pair of good phones out of my stock (I have plenty of AKG and Audio Technica, as well as a couple of Samson models and some miscellaneous other stuff) and plug 'em in. Problem: the better headphones get, the higher the impedance they have. A pair of AKG K-240s would have been just fine with me, but they're 600 ohms, and the audio output section in the CD player is rated at twelve milliwatts/channel (!) across a 16-ohm load. Across 600 ohms, it develops nil point zippity-****. Damn near inaudible, in fact. I'm using a pair of AKG K-55s right now; they sound fair, but I still can't get the volume I'm looking for. (They're 32 ohms...~6 milliwatts ain't cuttin' it.) I checked out all my dealer catalogs, and some websites - Sennheiser, Sony, and AKG, and it looks like no-one that I can find out about is making 16-ohm cans any more. So how about it, folks - any help here? I want some 16-ohm cans that are in the AKG K-240 region quality-wise. Circumaural, closed back. (I can live with open back if I have to.) Who makes 'em? Have you tried the 55-ohm k-240S model that's lower impedance than the 600-ohm k-240M? And if that's still not loud enough (it would be a big improvement but I suspect it won't be enough for you), go to shure.com and click on E2c in-ear phones (yes, now everyone can have in-ear phones). They aren't cheap (dunno why the different models have such widely differing prices), but I suspect they're the loudest things you can plug into a portable device as you describe. Here's some copy-and-paste info for the E1c E2c E5c respectively from the user-guide: Sensitivity (at 1kHz) 113.5 dB SPL/mW 105 dB SPL/mW 122 dB SPL/mW Impedance (at 1kHz) 29 16 110 the E2c is 16 ohms, but the higher impedance models are also more sensitive (at least power-wise, not neccesarily voltage-wise, which will be the factor limting max SPL). I'll leave it as a problem for the student to calculate which model is the loudest for a certain voltage input. While I'm at it, here's another copy/paste from that pdf manual: WARNING! USING THESE EARPHONES AT EXCESSIVE VOLUMES CAN CAUSE PERMANENT HEARING DAMAGE. USE THE LOWEST VOLUME LEVEL POSSIBLE. Lord Valve American |
#7
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
the E2c is 16 ohms, but the higher impedance models are also more
sensitive (at least power-wise, not neccesarily voltage-wise, which will be the factor limting max SPL). I'll leave it as a problem for the student to calculate which model is the loudest for a certain voltage input. While I'm at it, here's another copy/paste from that pdf manual: WARNING! USING THESE EARPHONES AT EXCESSIVE VOLUMES CAN CAUSE PERMANENT HEARING DAMAGE. USE THE LOWEST VOLUME LEVEL POSSIBLE. Lord Valve American I have a pair of the E2's and yes they can go LOUD. However this is not nessesary at all. Use the foam inserts intead of the clear plastic ones and outside volume will seriously be cut. There shouldn't be any need to turn them up to earsplitting levels. If you feel the need to crank the volume, maybe earmuff style hearing protectors should be worn as well. Peter |
#8
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
William Sommerwerck wrote: I use Sennheiser 600s with my Sony Discman, and though they don't play at extremely high levels, the level is more than satisfactory for classical music. Rock should be no problem. You're worrying about a relatively minor problem -- unless you're trying to damage your hearing. My friend, if it was a minor problem, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I am, after all, a pro tech and a jazz musician. I know *exactly* what I want to hear in the cans, and I'm not getting it. I need the full output of the phone amps in the CD player. 16 ohm phones will do it. I don't need a technical lecture, I need a pair of 16-ohm cans. Lord Valve Asshole |
#9
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Ben Bradley wrote: In rec.audio.pro, Lord Valve wrote: After having finally found exactly what I was looking for in the way of a portable CD player - the iRiver Slim-X iMP-350, a half inch thick, runs on NiMH rechargeables, plays any format you've ever heard of (and is software-upgradeable for those that haven't been invented yet), weighs damn near nothing, has a user-definable EQ curve (and five factory curves) as well as a balance control, mark and repeat track section capability, line out, FM tuner with 20 presets, a wired remote that lets you edit and specify all kinds of stuff, hell, if the damn thing could cook and wash dishes I'd chuck me old lady - I find myself on the horns of a dilemma. It comes with earbuds. Now, they sound way better than I ever expected they would, surprisingly good, in fact, but I just can't wear the damn things. Fifteen minutes with those nasty little buggers stuffed into my ears and I've got redness and soreness. No problem, I figured; hell, I own a music store, I'll just scarf a pair of good phones out of my stock (I have plenty of AKG and Audio Technica, as well as a couple of Samson models and some miscellaneous other stuff) and plug 'em in. Problem: the better headphones get, the higher the impedance they have. A pair of AKG K-240s would have been just fine with me, but they're 600 ohms, and the audio output section in the CD player is rated at twelve milliwatts/channel (!) across a 16-ohm load. Across 600 ohms, it develops nil point zippity-****. Damn near inaudible, in fact. I'm using a pair of AKG K-55s right now; they sound fair, but I still can't get the volume I'm looking for. (They're 32 ohms...~6 milliwatts ain't cuttin' it.) I checked out all my dealer catalogs, and some websites - Sennheiser, Sony, and AKG, and it looks like no-one that I can find out about is making 16-ohm cans any more. So how about it, folks - any help here? I want some 16-ohm cans that are in the AKG K-240 region quality-wise. Circumaural, closed back. (I can live with open back if I have to.) Who makes 'em? Have you tried the 55-ohm k-240S model that's lower impedance than the 600-ohm k-240M? And if that's still not loud enough (it would be a big improvement but I suspect it won't be enough for you), go to shure.com and click on E2c in-ear phones (yes, now everyone can have in-ear phones). They aren't cheap (dunno why the different models have such widely differing prices), but I suspect they're the loudest things you can plug into a portable device as you describe. Here's some copy-and-paste info for the E1c E2c E5c respectively from the user-guide: Sensitivity (at 1kHz) 113.5 dB SPL/mW 105 dB SPL/mW 122 dB SPL/mW Impedance (at 1kHz) 29 16 110 the E2c is 16 ohms, but the higher impedance models are also more sensitive (at least power-wise, not neccesarily voltage-wise, which will be the factor limting max SPL). I'll leave it as a problem for the student to calculate which model is the loudest for a certain voltage input. While I'm at it, here's another copy/paste from that pdf manual: WARNING! USING THESE EARPHONES AT EXCESSIVE VOLUMES CAN CAUSE PERMANENT HEARING DAMAGE. USE THE LOWEST VOLUME LEVEL POSSIBLE. Lord Valve American OK, one more time, with feeling: I DO NOT WANT TO STICK ANYTHING INTO MY ****IN' EARS. I'm looking for a set of 16-ohm cans. The player *came* with 16-ohm drivers, which go plenty loud. They're earbuds. I hate 'em, they make my ears sore. Cans. Sixteen ohms. Circumaural, closed. Jeez. Lord Valve Asshole |
#11
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Lord Valve wrote: My friend, if it was a minor problem, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I am, after all, a pro tech and a jazz musician. I know *exactly* what I want to hear in the cans, and I'm not getting it. I need the full output of the phone amps in the CD player. 16 ohm phones will do it. I don't need a technical lecture, I need a pair of 16-ohm cans. With all due respect, if the impedence of cans was the measure of their sensitivity I would agree, but in general it is not. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#12
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Lord Valve wrote: OK, one more time, with feeling: I DO NOT WANT TO STICK ANYTHING INTO MY ****IN' EARS. I'm looking for a set of 16-ohm cans. The player *came* with 16-ohm drivers, which go plenty loud. They're earbuds. I hate 'em, they make my ears sore. Cans. Sixteen ohms. Circumaural, closed. I can't answer your question without doing the same research you are doing but I'm curious why, if the sensitivity were the same or higher, you would care whether they are 16 ohm or otherwise. Please humor me. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#13
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
If you can find a pair of Sony MDR-CD5 or MDR-CD6 'phones (good luck! -- they're
long discontinued), they might be just what you're looking for. They have the rare combination of high sensitivity and high power-handling capacity. Although supra-aural, they have foam-rubber pads that actually seal them to the ear, blocking quite a lot of external sound. All these things make them wonderful for live recording. I can stand directly behind the conductor and the 'phones still drown out the full orchestra. This makes it much easier to adjust the mics. By the way, I agree with the responder. A lower impedance might deliver more power to the 'phones, but the impedance has nothing to do with the 'phones' sensitivity. You might want to look at one of the HeadRoom battery-powered headphone amplifiers. My friend, if it was a minor problem, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I am, after all, a pro tech and a jazz musician. I know *exactly* what I want to hear in the cans, and I'm not getting it. I need the full output of the phone amps in the CD player. 16 ohm phones will do it. I don't need a technical lecture, I need a pair of 16-ohm cans. With all due respect, if the impedence of cans was the measure of their sensitivity I would agree, but in general it is not. |
#14
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Mike Rivers wrote: In article writes: *Sigh* what? *Sigh* He asked a straightforward question, and you told him that he didn't need that question answered because he could use something else (something that he already knew about and presumably found was unsatisfactory) It's the way of Usenet - you don't know the answer but you feel you have to say something. (just like I'm doing now) As for me, I've never heard of 16 ohm headphones but as 3 volts becomes more of the standard power supply in consumer electronics, I expect that we'll be seeing more devices that work like we expect them to work, but at lower voltage. Back in the day, Mike, 8- and 16-ohm phones were common as dirt. Lord Valve Old |
#15
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Bob Cain wrote: Lord Valve wrote: My friend, if it was a minor problem, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I am, after all, a pro tech and a jazz musician. I know *exactly* what I want to hear in the cans, and I'm not getting it. I need the full output of the phone amps in the CD player. 16 ohm phones will do it. I don't need a technical lecture, I need a pair of 16-ohm cans. With all due respect, if the impedence of cans was the measure of their sensitivity I would agree, but in general it is not. Ain't lookin' for respect (and there ain't any on the Usenet anyway, so it'd be a fruitless quest) but you might want to consider that the available *current* is maximized at lower impedances, and current is what moves air. I need to move some air. I want nice, fat, circumaural closed- back cans. I know all about efficiency vs. SPL. I found a pair of 16-ohm Pioneers (about 25 years old) in the junk room and they are *plenty* loud - they just sound like crap because they're A) cheap and B) beat to hell. I'm gonna look at some Sonys (24 ohms, some of 'em) and I have leads on some other stuff. Some kind soul who wasn't interested in wavin' his technical pecker e-mailed me off-list with some excellent sources. Do have a nice day. Lord Valve Asshole |
#16
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes: *Sigh* what? *Sigh* He asked a straightforward question, and you told him that he didn't need that question answered because he could use something else (something that he already knew about and presumably found was unsatisfactory) There are phones out there that generate 103 dB against 1 milliwatt, on the Koss website. I would not have replied had I not thought the answer provided met functional, if not *exact* specs. 16 ohms is pretty dern low. It's the way of Usenet - you don't know the answer but you feel you have to say something. (just like I'm doing now) I've had near misses on Usenet that provided solutions next to 'em before. You never know. Usenet fire discipline is always an iffy thing As you say, I have never heard of 16 ohm headphones. 32 is as close as I've seen. As for me, I've never heard of 16 ohm headphones but as 3 volts becomes more of the standard power supply in consumer electronics, I expect that we'll be seeing more devices that work like we expect them to work, but at lower voltage. To which I add *sigh*. Poor volts - people tryin' to make 'em extinct and all. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) -- Les Cargill |
#17
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
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#18
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
_u_r___ _rossed with _agne___ _ie__ mo___ air. If the
_agne___ fiel_ __ stronger the sensitvity is higher and a smaller curre__ ___ ___ the same amount __ ___. In the electrical model of a _river, _he __rength __ the field ____ as the _urns ___io of a log___ ____former coup____ _he elect_____ _art to the _hysical mode_. Here you go... Simpler! Toby "Bob Cain" wrote in message ... Lord Valve wrote: Bob Cain wrote: Lord Valve wrote: My friend, if it was a minor problem, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I am, after all, a pro tech and a jazz musician. I know *exactly* what I want to hear in the cans, and I'm not getting it. I need the full output of the phone amps in the CD player. 16 ohm phones will do it. I don't need a technical lecture, I need a pair of 16-ohm cans. With all due respect, if the impedence of cans was the measure of their sensitivity I would agree, but in general it is not. Ain't lookin' for respect (and there ain't any on the Usenet anyway, so it'd be a fruitless quest) but you might want to consider that the available *current* is maximized at lower impedances, and current is what moves air. Current crossed with magnetic field moves air. If the magnetic field is stronger the sensitvity is higher and a smaller current can move the same amount of air. In the electrical model of a driver, the strength of the field acts as the turns ratio of a logical transformer coupling the electrical part to the physical model. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#19
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Well, I have headphone outs on my Spirit F1 and they don't do crap with a
600 ohm impendence, but with 32 ohms they are quite loud enough for monitoring live setups. Since I have beyer DT770s I started taking my Oz Audio headphone amp along on gigs because they'd drive the beyers fine and it gave me multiple outputs for feeding audio to videographers and such. When I bought the Crest I had assumed the same circumstances applied. I was wrong. The Crest can drive the beyers just fine, and they drive 32 ohm Sony 7506s too. In the case of some setups it seems that ohms are a consideration, particularly when one is working with a portable device powered by batteries. However, I believe I did see where someone along this thread offered up a pair of 16 ohm headphones. I'm just not sure if Valve saw it. Otherwise the thread probably would have died by now. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio 301-585-4681 "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1059250218k@trad... In article writes: Back in the day, Mike, 8- and 16-ohm phones were common as dirt. I remember the day when 2000 ohm phones were common, but maybe by the time 16 ohm phones were common, I didn't care about headphone impedance (and in fact, I still don't). -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#21
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I need a good pair of 16-ohm headphones!
Roger W. Norman wrote: ...no one here knows of anything... No ****. LV |
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