[WB]

I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg


Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc

I'm convinced it's the $50 PT ... simply because I replaced the diodes
and I used the alternate higher voltage taps and I get the same
result.

Thoughts ?

[Phil Allison]

"WB"

I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg


** The flat topped 1/2 wave seen between the two series diodes is correct.


Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc


** Where is that other wave from in the circuit ??

The hum is likely caused by bad wiring layout, a bad earthing scheme OR
you have swapped the A and B supplies.

BTW


The schem shows the 50uF cap in the bias supply wired backwards.




...... Phil

[WB]

Phil Allison wrote:
"WB"


There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg


** The flat topped 1/2 wave seen between the two series diodes is correct.



But !!! ... Both traces are at the same point in
the two legs of the series diodes, (in between).

The top trace is what
I would expect ( 1/2 wave of rectifer), and the little
turd on the bottom trace is what I perceive as garbage.

Open up the octp1/18wPwrProblem.doc to see traces without
and w/ load ... added notes.

Maybe I'm on a false lead ... and it really is ****ty wiring.

( ps .. never trust the schematic ... the actual circuit is right ;-)
likely a older version ).

[Lord Valve]

WB wrote:

I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg

Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc

I'm convinced it's the $50 PT ... simply because I replaced the diodes
and I used the alternate higher voltage taps and I get the same
result.

Thoughts ?

If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls? If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Lord Valve
Expert

[WB]

Lord Valve wrote:
WB wrote:


If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

yes .. with a fresh mind and PS comments, I am leaning away from that.
I'm still seeing a sizable ac ripple ( 3v rms) .


Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.

will do .. it is 60 .. meter on the OT jack sez so.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?

more American than UK ...

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls?

Yes .. no signal input ... ( input jack shunted )
the amp starts motor boating with the gain and master about 1/3
up .. then the frequency wobbles up/dn when one or the other
are changed.

If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
No NFB
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Dead / quiet .. nothing ( as expected ?)

Expert



Also .. I have no feedback loop yet from the secondary .. if that matters.

[Lord Valve]

WB wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:
WB wrote:


If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

yes .. with a fresh mind and PS comments, I am leaning away from that.
I'm still seeing a sizable ac ripple ( 3v rms) .

That's not large.

Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.

will do .. it is 60 .. meter on the OT jack sez so.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?

more American than UK ...

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls?

Yes .. no signal input ... ( input jack shunted )
the amp starts motor boating with the gain and master about 1/3
up .. then the frequency wobbles up/dn when one or the other
are changed.

This is the first time you've said anything about motorboating.

I thought your problem was hum. They're not the same.

If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
No NFB
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Dead / quiet .. nothing ( as expected ?)

That would eliminate the HV supply and the bias supply.

Also .. I have no feedback loop yet from the secondary .. if that matters.

"Yet?" Is the amp finished?

Lord Valve
Expert

[Phil S.]

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...
WB wrote:

I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg

Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc

I'm convinced it's the $50 PT ... simply because I replaced the diodes
and I used the alternate higher voltage taps and I get the same
result.

Thoughts ?

If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.


WB, I don't know much, espeically about using a scope, but, IMO, that bottom
trace is ugly. Methinks there is no harm in raising the filter cap value in
the bias supply circuit. Certainly worth trying, but I'd look at filament
supply first.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?


I looked at your pictures and I think this is worth chasing. Your wiring
job (please don't take this the wrong way) leaves something to be desired.
In picture #10, the blue/red wire appears to cross OVER the filament string.
Then there is a red wire that IMO runs too close to the filament string. In
general, your filament string isn't high enough off the chassis. If this
were mine, I'd put some effort into raising those filament wires up in the
air more and get them away from any B+ or signal wires. You know, the guys
at 18watt.com seem to really like the idea of elevating the filament supply
by running the artificial CT into the power tube cathode, and they suggest
it has a meaningful effect on hum. This is also worth a try, but first I'd
work the filament lead dress for all I could. Like I said above, I don't
know anything about using a scope, but I keep thinking that ugly thing on
the bottom is filament bleed. Further, maybe just coincidence, 3v is half
of the filament supply.

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls? If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Lord Valve
Expert


Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Phil
Rank amateur and know-nothing.

[Phil Allison]

"WB"
Phil Allison wrote:


There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg


** The flat topped 1/2 wave seen between the two series diodes is
correct.


But !!! ... Both traces are at the same point in
the two legs of the series diodes, (in between).


** OK - but you are not linking them to the scope the same way, are you.

One is going via a 10:1 probe with the scope set to DC coupling - while the
other ( low voltage one) is going via a 1:1 probe set to AC coupling.
Along with variable diode leakage, that may well explain it.

Long as the two 240 volt AC waves going are OK and you have a few volts of
120 Hz saw tooth on the first filter cap - all is well there.

Have you checked that DC supplies A and B are the right way round ??



...... Phil

[Diocletian]

Phil S. wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...
WB wrote:

I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg

Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc

I'm convinced it's the $50 PT ... simply because I replaced the diodes
and I used the alternate higher voltage taps and I get the same
result.

Thoughts ?
If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.


WB, I don't know much, espeically about using a scope, but, IMO, that bottom
trace is ugly. Methinks there is no harm in raising the filter cap value in
the bias supply circuit. Certainly worth trying, but I'd look at filament
supply first.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?


I looked at your pictures and I think this is worth chasing. Your wiring
job (please don't take this the wrong way) leaves something to be desired.
In picture #10, the blue/red wire appears to cross OVER the filament string.
Then there is a red wire that IMO runs too close to the filament string. In
general, your filament string isn't high enough off the chassis. If this
were mine, I'd put some effort into raising those filament wires up in the
air more and get them away from any B+ or signal wires. You know, the guys
at 18watt.com seem to really like the idea of elevating the filament supply
by running the artificial CT into the power tube cathode, and they suggest
it has a meaningful effect on hum. This is also worth a try, but first I'd
work the filament lead dress for all I could. Like I said above, I don't
know anything about using a scope, but I keep thinking that ugly thing on
the bottom is filament bleed. Further, maybe just coincidence, 3v is half
of the filament supply.

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls? If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Lord Valve
Expert


Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Phil
Rank amateur and know-nothing.



Me thinks you've taken humility to a new level. :-) mvm

I have to doff the cap to guys who focus on proper grounding schemes,
clean wiring (right angles vs. parallel re; signal and power etc.).
I know next to nothing about electronics, but I've read a lot from
Hunter's books to Weber's and always read the VG columns and GP
columns. I know enough to know that my involvement w/ the amp
stops at its controls, but I do appreciate and admire the craft of
audio repair / building, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/32j32m

[Phil S.]

"WB" wrote in message
. ..
Lord Valve wrote:
WB wrote:


If it's 60 Hz hum - not 120 - it's not likely to be the HV supply.

yes .. with a fresh mind and PS comments, I am leaning away from that.
I'm still seeing a sizable ac ripple ( 3v rms) .


Possible culprit: bias supply. Chek the bias cap polarity.
If there's not enough capacitance or a poor ground in the
bias supply, a 60 Hz ripple will be applied to the grids
of the output tubes.

will do .. it is 60 .. meter on the OT jack sez so.

Possible culprit: Filament lead dress. How are your filament
leads done - loosely twisted and down against the chassis,
like Marshall does it, or tightly twisted and up in the air, like
Fender does it?

more American than UK ...

Is the amplitude or the tone of the hum affected by any of the
controls?

Yes .. no signal input ... ( input jack shunted )
the amp starts motor boating with the gain and master about 1/3
up .. then the frequency wobbles up/dn when one or the other
are changed.

If the amp has an NFB loop, disconnect it. What
No NFB
happens to the hum level? What happens when you pull the
PI tube?

Dead / quiet .. nothing ( as expected ?)

Expert


Also .. I have no feedback loop yet from the secondary .. if that
matters.



In doing any sort of problem solving, my approach is to simplify as much as
possible and work on the most basic things first. You've also got to make
some assumptions, some of which may prove wrong later (like the PT is
somehow bad). In this case, I think the filament supply is the simplest
thing to attack.

Your own description of the filament wiring, "more American than UK ..."
suggests to me you already know the job isn't right. Perhaps, you've got
the worst of both styles. Because you've got it hanging low to the chassis
and too close to some wires, you've got little to lose and lots to gain by
reworking this. If you feel that twisted pair up in the air is logistically
problemmatic, maybe you try zip cord on the chassis floor and do what you
can to lift the PS and signal wires away from it.

Maybe you need to watch Gabi wiring the filaments?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxFBi...eature=related
Assuming you haven't seen this before, IMO he does too much talking and not
enough working, but he makes some good points. Remember to chuck the wire
in your drill and twist it nice and tight before you work with it.

Sorry for pushing my point. I'm not trying to be a PITA.

Phil

[WB]

flipper wrote:

Thoughts ?

Well, I suspect you have it wired right but just for the sake of
double checking, on your schematic for the Weber transformer taps to
the hi/low switch you show the color codes correctly but physically
show them on the wrong taps in the winding diagram. I.E. 'Red' should
be the outer tap on both ends, not one end tap and one inner tap.
Rd/Wt are the inner taps.

If they're on the 'physically wrong' taps then you'd certainly get a
different waveform on the two diode pairs because one would be putting
out a higher voltage than the other and, depending on the load (and
cap charge), one pair might not even conduct. Even if it did your
ripple would be predominately 60Hz.

Also, bias 'E' doesn't seem to go anywhere.

In another thread you mentioned motor boating and it looks to me like
you have 3 stages on the same RC filter point (C) with rather modest
filtering. I'd add at least another stage after the phase splitter and
note that Marshal, which seems to be the basic topology you're
borrowing from, places another between the two triode gain stages with
each being typically 10K into 50uF for, like say, a JCM800. I suspect
you could get by with 10k into 33 uF.

May not be necessary but I'd also increase the 'C' cap to 33uf. Or do
them all 47uF ala Marshal.

I also wonder if you've got excessive gain. If so you might want to
keep in the back of your mind pulling out that V2 cathode bypass cap.


Thanks for the insight !
Have you built a TMB before ?

[JP]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:47:08 -0500, WB wrote:



I have a severe 60 hum being produced by
by my home brew OctomberPlexi:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...buildpage1.htm

I've cured some wrong components over the past weeks in the
tone/PS circuit that certainly awoken the beast.

Now, I have this intolerable 60 oscillation that I
think I have traced to the PT ( Weber 25130 ).

I back tracked the noise to the rectifier circuit:

There are diodes in series ( D1 - D2 on one leg, and
D3- D4 ) for the full wave rectifier, and connecting
a scope between D1 and D2 produces this weird wave sign
that appears on B+ as a sawtooth ripple:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/pwrsupp02.jpg


Here is a little more detailed document on it:

http://www.freewebs.com/willispage8/...pwrproblem.doc

I'm convinced it's the $50 PT ... simply because I replaced the diodes
and I used the alternate higher voltage taps and I get the same
result.

Thoughts ?
How about the filter cap values? The November I am studying has 5
32mfd @450 volts and yours are assorted values..where are the 50mfd
caps? Tried 100v?Might dl the Rev 11 and compare values for an
idea..is the coil big enough? Looks like the MM 5h coil I have (choke)
for the Marshall 45... Did you pet the cat?

[JP]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:39:30 -0500, flipper wrote:

Bought the knobs, though
Tsk tsk.just throwing money at it huh...lol

[Phil S.]

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:08:32 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:39:30 -0500, flipper wrote:

Bought the knobs, though
Tsk tsk.just throwing money at it huh...lol

Hehe. Yeah.

I was , of course, joking a bit as I also bought the chassis and
miscellaneous small parts but, compared to the vast majority being
'junk', the aluminum skirt numbered knobs were a 'major' expense.

Where I really splurged was on the $1.40 pots from Mouser rather than
55 cents from Futurlec because, while their prices (on some items) are
terrific, their delivery is slower than a row boat from China. And
they don't carry a 1Meg audio taper nor 25k of either flavor anyway.

There is no such thing as a $0.55 pot. The *real* price is calculated to
spread the shipping cost. These days, even if you drive to the store, if
it's 10 miles round trip and your car gets 30 mpg (unlikely), you still pay
at least $1.00 (surely $1.50 if you live in CA) for the gas to drive there
and let's say there is 5% sales tax, that $0.55 pot is well north of $2.

Just grousing. It just seems fundamentally wrong that the transporation
cost is out of proportion to the cost of the item. The only solution is to
buy enough stuff, and what's the fun of that? Thanks for listening.

Phil

[JP]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...

[JP]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:54:04 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:08:32 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:39:30 -0500, flipper wrote:

Bought the knobs, though
Tsk tsk.just throwing money at it huh...lol

Hehe. Yeah.

I was , of course, joking a bit as I also bought the chassis and
miscellaneous small parts but, compared to the vast majority being
'junk', the aluminum skirt numbered knobs were a 'major' expense.

Where I really splurged was on the $1.40 pots from Mouser rather than
55 cents from Futurlec because, while their prices (on some items) are
terrific, their delivery is slower than a row boat from China. And
they don't carry a 1Meg audio taper nor 25k of either flavor anyway.

There is no such thing as a $0.55 pot. The *real* price is calculated to
spread the shipping cost. These days, even if you drive to the store, if
it's 10 miles round trip and your car gets 30 mpg (unlikely), you still pay
at least $1.00 (surely $1.50 if you live in CA) for the gas to drive there
and let's say there is 5% sales tax, that $0.55 pot is well north of $2.

Just grousing. It just seems fundamentally wrong that the transporation
cost is out of proportion to the cost of the item. The only solution is to
buy enough stuff, and what's the fun of that? Thanks for listening.

Phil

somethings wrong if I don't have to reorder on a project...lol

[Phil S.]

"JP" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.

[JP]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.

That's what I say...

[Phil S.]

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

There is always a catch. I wondered about the 1/4" jacks and plugs, which
are designated in the description with a metric, "equivalent" of 6.5mm.
Call me old fashioned, but I calculate (2.54*.25) about 6.35mm = 1/4", so
I'm wondering if this is a simple case of some "standard" equivalent or if
the jacks are sloppy big and the plugs are too fat. I suppose at that
price, I'd be willing to test one, but not buy a handful.

The point is, I don't like tbe wondering when I order. I have a feeling
I'll give them a try for my next build. I'm not typically in a hurry. I
haven't decided yet what I'm building!

BTW, I noticed they are clueless about "sockets". They don't have anything
useful in that category at all, LOL!

[JP]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.
Thanks for the warning...the resistors seem to be a fair price...think
they are ordering from China and then shipping? I ordered some
prescription sunglasses from some net place like $13 glasses or some
such place and they got to me about 4 weeks later from China. They
were sort of out of focus but my eyes adjusted okay. The case smelled
like benezene fumes or something...had to put it on the back porch
open for a week or so...but now they are working although the lens has
a spot rubbed on it form the plastic eyepiece rubbing on it closed in
the case...anyway...back to topic

[JP]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:18:26 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:54:04 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:08:32 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:39:30 -0500, flipper wrote:

Bought the knobs, though
Tsk tsk.just throwing money at it huh...lol

Hehe. Yeah.

I was , of course, joking a bit as I also bought the chassis and
miscellaneous small parts but, compared to the vast majority being
'junk', the aluminum skirt numbered knobs were a 'major' expense.

Where I really splurged was on the $1.40 pots from Mouser rather than
55 cents from Futurlec because, while their prices (on some items) are
terrific, their delivery is slower than a row boat from China. And
they don't carry a 1Meg audio taper nor 25k of either flavor anyway.

There is no such thing as a $0.55 pot. The *real* price is calculated to
spread the shipping cost.

True, of course, but then that applies to everything and it's
difficult to make a generic comparison that includes 'shipping'
because there's no way to know what else someone is buying in the same
lot.

Not to mention the Mouser pot has to be shipped too, you know

On the 'lot' bit, I often look at the shipping for what I 'needed' and
if I can toss in some other parts without passing a cost boundary I'll
add in some 'stock' items, like extra sockets or whatever... maybe
some pots. So, in that case, one could argue they really are 55 cents


These days, even if you drive to the store, if
it's 10 miles round trip and your car gets 30 mpg (unlikely), you still pay
at least $1.00 (surely $1.50 if you live in CA) for the gas to drive there
and let's say there is 5% sales tax, that $0.55 pot is well north of $2.

Good point, especially with current gas prices. Unless you had to go
'here' and stop by 'there' on the way home.

Driving 20 miles RT for just one 55 cent item hasn't been prudent for
quite some time but with skyrocketing gas prices it's getting to be
downright foolish.

Just grousing. It just seems fundamentally wrong that the transporation
cost is out of proportion to the cost of the item. The only solution is to
buy enough stuff, and what's the fun of that? Thanks for listening.

I know. It 'seems' that way but it costs just as much to ship a pot as
it does a $2,000 diamond. Well, not counting 'insurance'


Phil

I suppose that is part of "getting good" in this industry also, being
able to order bulk stock and adding special pieces into the bulk order
to save money...

[JP]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:35:44 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
news On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

There is always a catch. I wondered about the 1/4" jacks and plugs, which
are designated in the description with a metric, "equivalent" of 6.5mm.
Call me old fashioned, but I calculate (2.54*.25) about 6.35mm = 1/4", so
I'm wondering if this is a simple case of some "standard" equivalent or if
the jacks are sloppy big and the plugs are too fat. I suppose at that
price, I'd be willing to test one, but not buy a handful.

The point is, I don't like tbe wondering when I order. I have a feeling
I'll give them a try for my next build. I'm not typically in a hurry. I
haven't decided yet what I'm building!

BTW, I noticed they are clueless about "sockets". They don't have anything
useful in that category at all, LOL!

You haven't started using the new 6 prong dip profile 6L6's yet..lol
Might pay to order one of everything you might want to buy later for a
test run and see what ya get...check the ohms and whatnot with a
meter...like opening the CrackerJack prize..I was always
disappointed...lol

[JP]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:46:26 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:17:31 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
news On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

Thanks for the warning...the resistors seem to be a fair price.

Yeah, they are.

I usually get metal film and it turns out that Mouser has Vishay/Dale
1/4 watt 1% metal film at .02 in singles, which matches their 10 lot
price. And they don't carry higher wattage in metal film while Mouser
does.

You may have guessed I'm a Mouser fan. Helps a bit that I'm in the
same state and delivery is lightning fast but that's not due solely to
the distance. Mouser is lightning fast too and you can forget
'amending' an order because it'll be picked and on it's way to the
shipping dock before you can get an email to them. I know because I
tried.

If I order by 5PM I'll get it the next day, late afternoon, by
standard UPS ground.

And Mouser's stock makes Futurlec look like a bit player. But you
can't beat their pot prices anywhere, not even close. Same goes for
the knobs, if you've got 6mm shafts.

..think
they are ordering from China and then shipping?

Sure feels like it but I don't know.

They say "We are a large stockist and supplier of electronic
components throughout the world. We carry a large stock and range of
components ready for immediate delivery. "

But then, in the next sentence, say "We are centrally located near our
suppliers in the Asian region, enabling us to fulfil your orders
quickly and at reduced prices."

While giving a New York address for US and North America.

But their web site trace routes to Australia.


I ordered some
prescription sunglasses from some net place like $13 glasses or some
such place and they got to me about 4 weeks later from China. They
were sort of out of focus but my eyes adjusted okay. The case smelled
like benezene fumes or something...had to put it on the back porch
open for a week or so...but now they are working although the lens has
a spot rubbed on it form the plastic eyepiece rubbing on it closed in
the case...anyway...back to topic
I like Mouser also. I need to go find them, so I can see about
stopping by when I'm in the city. I am going to Ft. Worth today so if
I get a chance, I might just exit at Mansfield and see where they are.
That is a smallish suburb town..or used to be smaller...
From my location, I can order one day early and get it in the mail
the next day (with no back orders).The only thing I hate about Mouser
is their web site is geared to engineers, not hobbist although they
started as a hobby business...maybe they need two of them...and
sometimes searchs turn up no results but the catalog lists
parts..search engine is to picky maybe...

[JP]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:42:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:31:47 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:46:26 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:17:31 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
newstie84dtk8shr0c5pa4tv5e4iq7u48t814@4ax. com...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

Thanks for the warning...the resistors seem to be a fair price.

Yeah, they are.

I usually get metal film and it turns out that Mouser has Vishay/Dale
1/4 watt 1% metal film at .02 in singles, which matches their 10 lot
price. And they don't carry higher wattage in metal film while Mouser
does.

You may have guessed I'm a Mouser fan. Helps a bit that I'm in the
same state and delivery is lightning fast but that's not due solely to
the distance. Mouser is lightning fast too and you can forget
'amending' an order because it'll be picked and on it's way to the
shipping dock before you can get an email to them. I know because I
tried.

If I order by 5PM I'll get it the next day, late afternoon, by
standard UPS ground.

And Mouser's stock makes Futurlec look like a bit player. But you
can't beat their pot prices anywhere, not even close. Same goes for
the knobs, if you've got 6mm shafts.

..think
they are ordering from China and then shipping?

Sure feels like it but I don't know.

They say "We are a large stockist and supplier of electronic
components throughout the world. We carry a large stock and range of
components ready for immediate delivery. "

But then, in the next sentence, say "We are centrally located near our
suppliers in the Asian region, enabling us to fulfil your orders
quickly and at reduced prices."

While giving a New York address for US and North America.

But their web site trace routes to Australia.


I ordered some
prescription sunglasses from some net place like $13 glasses or some
such place and they got to me about 4 weeks later from China. They
were sort of out of focus but my eyes adjusted okay. The case smelled
like benezene fumes or something...had to put it on the back porch
open for a week or so...but now they are working although the lens has
a spot rubbed on it form the plastic eyepiece rubbing on it closed in
the case...anyway...back to topic

I like Mouser also. I need to go find them, so I can see about
stopping by when I'm in the city. I am going to Ft. Worth today so if
I get a chance, I might just exit at Mansfield and see where they are.
That is a smallish suburb town..or used to be smaller...
From my location, I can order one day early and get it in the mail
the next day (with no back orders).The only thing I hate about Mouser
is their web site is geared to engineers, not hobbist although they
started as a hobby business...maybe they need two of them

That's interesting. I don't have any complaints about 'engineer vs
hobby' but maybe that's because we're ordering different things. That
and I'm an engineer.

What would make it more 'hobby' oriented?



...and
sometimes searchs turn up no results but the catalog lists
parts..search engine is to picky maybe...

Hmm. My complaint with the search engine is exactly the opposite:
often pulls up too much. But it's rather simple to narrow things down
so it's not a big deal.

Give me an example of a part it failed to find.

The 'surprise' for me is they carry parts that aren't in the catalog.
easier search and order interface for end users not familiar with
engineering terms and part numbers, ect...sometimes you can type in a
generic term like 1% resistors and get nothing back in the voltage
range we use but get into the catalog and there it is. Some times you
can enter the same thing and get different results - like Google..and
as we all know, that is sort of the definition of insanity - trying
the same thing expecting different results...

[JP]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:42:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:31:47 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:46:26 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:17:31 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
newstie84dtk8shr0c5pa4tv5e4iq7u48t814@4ax. com...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

Thanks for the warning...the resistors seem to be a fair price.

Yeah, they are.

I usually get metal film and it turns out that Mouser has Vishay/Dale
1/4 watt 1% metal film at .02 in singles, which matches their 10 lot
price. And they don't carry higher wattage in metal film while Mouser
does.

You may have guessed I'm a Mouser fan. Helps a bit that I'm in the
same state and delivery is lightning fast but that's not due solely to
the distance. Mouser is lightning fast too and you can forget
'amending' an order because it'll be picked and on it's way to the
shipping dock before you can get an email to them. I know because I
tried.

If I order by 5PM I'll get it the next day, late afternoon, by
standard UPS ground.

And Mouser's stock makes Futurlec look like a bit player. But you
can't beat their pot prices anywhere, not even close. Same goes for
the knobs, if you've got 6mm shafts.

..think
they are ordering from China and then shipping?

Sure feels like it but I don't know.

They say "We are a large stockist and supplier of electronic
components throughout the world. We carry a large stock and range of
components ready for immediate delivery. "

But then, in the next sentence, say "We are centrally located near our
suppliers in the Asian region, enabling us to fulfil your orders
quickly and at reduced prices."

While giving a New York address for US and North America.

But their web site trace routes to Australia.


I ordered some
prescription sunglasses from some net place like $13 glasses or some
such place and they got to me about 4 weeks later from China. They
were sort of out of focus but my eyes adjusted okay. The case smelled
like benezene fumes or something...had to put it on the back porch
open for a week or so...but now they are working although the lens has
a spot rubbed on it form the plastic eyepiece rubbing on it closed in
the case...anyway...back to topic

I like Mouser also. I need to go find them, so I can see about
stopping by when I'm in the city. I am going to Ft. Worth today so if
I get a chance, I might just exit at Mansfield and see where they are.
That is a smallish suburb town..or used to be smaller...
From my location, I can order one day early and get it in the mail
the next day (with no back orders).The only thing I hate about Mouser
is their web site is geared to engineers, not hobbist although they
started as a hobby business...maybe they need two of them

That's interesting. I don't have any complaints about 'engineer vs
hobby' but maybe that's because we're ordering different things. That
and I'm an engineer.

What would make it more 'hobby' oriented?



...and
sometimes searchs turn up no results but the catalog lists
parts..search engine is to picky maybe...

Hmm. My complaint with the search engine is exactly the opposite:
often pulls up too much. But it's rather simple to narrow things down
so it's not a big deal.

Give me an example of a part it failed to find.

The 'surprise' for me is they carry parts that aren't in the catalog.
Like I remember one..lol...next time I use it and it happens, I will
document it...

[JP]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:40:49 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:22:30 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:42:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:31:47 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:46:26 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:17:31 -0500, JP
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:08:01 -0400, "Phil S."
wrote:


"JP" wrote in message
newstie84dtk8shr0c5pa4tv5e4iq7u48t814@4a x.com...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:16:19 -0500, flipper wrote:

Futurlec
Good prices though...
Yikes! Dirt cheap! As long as you're not picky, it's time to stock up.


Since people seem to have discovered them from my post I feel
obligated to make a few comments.

They do have good prices on some things, although on others I find
Mouser is just as good if not cheaper, but they also seem to be
rather.. uh.. lackadaisical and you don't always get what you think
you ordered.

The problem seems to crop up more with connectors. Like, I ordered
switched mono phone jacks and got non switched mono phone jacks. They
did make good, by refunding the price, but, by then, I was row boat
from China late on the project and didn't have the switched phone
jacks I needed. I ended up buying from Mouser because I couldn't find
out if they just picked the wrong part, or put the wrong part in the
bin, or the description was wrong. Great price, though... for the
wrong part.

Another time I ordered a pair of speaker binding posts and while I got
a pairs of speaker binding posts they were two different types. Would
'work' but look like crap on a 'stereo' amplifier.

They also say their knobs "Suits 1/4" Shafts." Well, none of the
aluminum ones I got do. They're 6mm and Futurlec still has the wrong
description even after I notified them, more than once, of the
problem. They'll work on *their* pots, because those are 6mm (T18
knurled shaft) too, but they will not go on a 1/4" shaft.

One of the most irritating issues was an astronomically late, even by
Futurlec standards, order and when I contacted them it turned out the
entire order was being held for one part on backorder even though the
online order status I had been checking said "shipped." Worse yet,
they seemed completely oblivious as to why I might consider that a
problem.

I haven't had a problem with semiconductors, resistors, and caps, and
still occasionally use them but not for things I 'need', and on time,
and 'right'.

Thanks for the warning...the resistors seem to be a fair price.

Yeah, they are.

I usually get metal film and it turns out that Mouser has Vishay/Dale
1/4 watt 1% metal film at .02 in singles, which matches their 10 lot
price. And they don't carry higher wattage in metal film while Mouser
does.

You may have guessed I'm a Mouser fan. Helps a bit that I'm in the
same state and delivery is lightning fast but that's not due solely to
the distance. Mouser is lightning fast too and you can forget
'amending' an order because it'll be picked and on it's way to the
shipping dock before you can get an email to them. I know because I
tried.

If I order by 5PM I'll get it the next day, late afternoon, by
standard UPS ground.

And Mouser's stock makes Futurlec look like a bit player. But you
can't beat their pot prices anywhere, not even close. Same goes for
the knobs, if you've got 6mm shafts.

..think
they are ordering from China and then shipping?

Sure feels like it but I don't know.

They say "We are a large stockist and supplier of electronic
components throughout the world. We carry a large stock and range of
components ready for immediate delivery. "

But then, in the next sentence, say "We are centrally located near our
suppliers in the Asian region, enabling us to fulfil your orders
quickly and at reduced prices."

While giving a New York address for US and North America.

But their web site trace routes to Australia.


I ordered some
prescription sunglasses from some net place like $13 glasses or some
such place and they got to me about 4 weeks later from China. They
were sort of out of focus but my eyes adjusted okay. The case smelled
like benezene fumes or something...had to put it on the back porch
open for a week or so...but now they are working although the lens has
a spot rubbed on it form the plastic eyepiece rubbing on it closed in
the case...anyway...back to topic

I like Mouser also. I need to go find them, so I can see about
stopping by when I'm in the city. I am going to Ft. Worth today so if
I get a chance, I might just exit at Mansfield and see where they are.
That is a smallish suburb town..or used to be smaller...
From my location, I can order one day early and get it in the mail
the next day (with no back orders).The only thing I hate about Mouser
is their web site is geared to engineers, not hobbist although they
started as a hobby business...maybe they need two of them

That's interesting. I don't have any complaints about 'engineer vs
hobby' but maybe that's because we're ordering different things. That
and I'm an engineer.

What would make it more 'hobby' oriented?



...and
sometimes searchs turn up no results but the catalog lists
parts..search engine is to picky maybe...

Hmm. My complaint with the search engine is exactly the opposite:
often pulls up too much. But it's rather simple to narrow things down
so it's not a big deal.

Give me an example of a part it failed to find.

The 'surprise' for me is they carry parts that aren't in the catalog.
easier search and order interface for end users not familiar with
engineering terms and part numbers, ect...sometimes you can type in a
generic term like 1% resistors and get nothing back in the voltage
range we use but get into the catalog and there it is.

Hmm. Are you interpreting a page that looks rather like a 'table of
contents', or 'category list', as getting nothing back? That's what
you get when there are a huge number of results spanning multiple
categories.

Some times you
can enter the same thing and get different results - like Google..and
as we all know, that is sort of the definition of insanity - trying
the same thing expecting different results...

Hehe. Yes, I like that saying too but like a lot of them it's not
quite true. I mean, if they add new devices to their catalog/web site
then the next search won't give the same results as the first one...
without being 'insane'

And, of course, since there are millions upon millions of web sites
Google tries to 'learn' and 'adapt' to your use patterns so you,
hopefully, get better results... and that's not quite 'insane' either



Okay!