I am looking for some advice on improving the sound stage produced by
the speakers in my '89 Toyota Camry.

Here are the components currently installed in my car:
Front Speakers : Rockford Fosgate 3" speakers
Rear Speakers : Pioneer TSA1665 6.5" speakers
In-Dash Receiver: Aiwa CDC-MP3

My primary concern are the high frequency response of the front
speakers and the sound quality of my CD receiver.

The 3" front speakers in my car are in-dash speakers and they face
down toward the floor. They also have lower sensitivity rating than
the rear speakers (80db vs 92db). As the result, when fader control
of the CD receiver is set to neutral, the rear speakers will overwhelm
the front speakers in both volume and high frequency output.
Therefore I usually set the fader control so the front speakers will
sound equally loud as the rear speakers.

But the resulting sound stage is far from good because bass output
from the rear speakers is greatly reduced while the perceived high
frequency output of the front speakers remained low. I don't know if
there are better replacements for my front speakers or not but I have
been told that Rockford 3" speakers are the best in its class.

The Aiwa CDC-MP3 receiver may also to be blamed. The highest treble
setting in CDC-MP3 seem a little low. No matter how I adjust the
fader and treble settings, the front speakers would sound like they
have a frequency cutoff of around 17 to 18khz instead of the
advertised 20khz frequency response. I am thinking about getting a
new head unit but I don't know how much improvement in sound quality I
will hear, especially high frequency output. (Well, CDC-MP3 has a S/N
ratio of 85db so just about everything in the market today should
sound better).

Any advice on what I can do would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jason

P.S. Has anyone sold his or her 88-91 Camry because of the front
speakers?

Yeah I HATE how toyota does this on their late 80's cars. My dads 89 4
runner has 4" mids that point down to the floor (!!!) We got around
this by flush mounting polk separates high up on the doors. You might
want to look into a kick panel mounted 2-way component set, and
cross-fire the speakers. Q-logic makes fiberglass enclosures for a lot
of different cars.

Dont those cars have large storage bins in the center console, beneath
the head unit? You could easily mount a center channel speaker there,
and cover it with grill fabric.

I'm willing to bet that a new CD head will not dramatically improve your
soundstage.... Its your front speakers blasting into your ankles thats
the root cause.

Remember... as wonderful as EQs are they can NOT overcome the laws of
physics. All the treble boost in the world will not be able to
compensate for poorly aligned speakers.

Garrett

wrote:

I am looking for some advice on improving the sound stage produced by
the speakers in my '89 Toyota Camry.

Here are the components currently installed in my car:
Front Speakers : Rockford Fosgate 3" speakers
Rear Speakers : Pioneer TSA1665 6.5" speakers
In-Dash Receiver: Aiwa CDC-MP3

My primary concern are the high frequency response of the front
speakers and the sound quality of my CD receiver.

The 3" front speakers in my car are in-dash speakers and they face
down toward the floor. They also have lower sensitivity rating than
the rear speakers (80db vs 92db). As the result, when fader control
of the CD receiver is set to neutral, the rear speakers will overwhelm
the front speakers in both volume and high frequency output.
Therefore I usually set the fader control so the front speakers will
sound equally loud as the rear speakers.

But the resulting sound stage is far from good because bass output
from the rear speakers is greatly reduced while the perceived high
frequency output of the front speakers remained low. I don't know if
there are better replacements for my front speakers or not but I have
been told that Rockford 3" speakers are the best in its class.

The Aiwa CDC-MP3 receiver may also to be blamed. The highest treble
setting in CDC-MP3 seem a little low. No matter how I adjust the
fader and treble settings, the front speakers would sound like they
have a frequency cutoff of around 17 to 18khz instead of the
advertised 20khz frequency response. I am thinking about getting a
new head unit but I don't know how much improvement in sound quality I
will hear, especially high frequency output. (Well, CDC-MP3 has a S/N
ratio of 85db so just about everything in the market today should
sound better).

Any advice on what I can do would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jason

P.S. Has anyone sold his or her 88-91 Camry because of the front
speakers?

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:00:48 -0700, Sanitarium
wrote:

Yeah I HATE how toyota does this on their late 80's cars. My dads 89 4
runner has 4" mids that point down to the floor (!!!) We got around
this by flush mounting polk separates high up on the doors. You might
want to look into a kick panel mounted 2-way component set, and
cross-fire the speakers. Q-logic makes fiberglass enclosures for a lot
of different cars.

I looked at many web sites for suitable kick panels for may car and
found none. I was told I will need to buy custom kick panels but that
will cost too much money.

Perhaps two separate tweeters are what I need. I know some tweeters
come with surface mount kits but I'm not sure if they can be mounted
anywhere. I imagine holes still need to be drilled to pull the wires
though that pretty much limited the possible locations to mount
tweeters.

Dont those cars have large storage bins in the center console, beneath
the head unit? You could easily mount a center channel speaker there,
and cover it with grill fabric.

The extra space in the center console was left over from the original
Toyota radio/casette receiver which took up the space of two regular
sized head units. I don't think I can fit a decent sized speaker
there though.


I'm willing to bet that a new CD head will not dramatically improve your
soundstage.... Its your front speakers blasting into your ankles thats
the root cause.

Remember... as wonderful as EQs are they can NOT overcome the laws of
physics. All the treble boost in the world will not be able to
compensate for poorly aligned speakers.

I do not expect miracles from higher treble level. However, I have
made a few CD-ROMs containing MP3s that have increased high frequency
sound. (I used a sound editor to increase 18khz ~ 19khz sound level
of wave files by about 4db before compressing them to MP3s). The
result was a noticeable, but not great, improvement in the front
speaker output. That is reason why I think a better head unit may
improve the sound a little bit.

Jason

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:08:16 -0500, Brandon Buckner
wrote:

Are those set up like the late 80's (i.e. '86-89) Toyota Celicas? I had
one with 3" speakers that pointed down. Interestingly they came with
there own "box" that was removable and had 4" passive radiators in them.
I found that mounting a 4" speaker in place of the passive radiators and
either leaving the stock speakers in but disconnected or removed but the
hole blocked or replaced with smaller speakers to complement the new 4"
speakers you could get it to sound pretty damn good. Of course, my rears
were blown and hence disconnected and I didn't bother replacing them for
fill so I don't know if they still drowned out the fronts or not. It did
need more midbass though, thats my only complaint.

Sounds like your Celica has the same type of speakers as my Camry.
I didn't know 4" speakers can be used as the in-dash sepeakers. The
sales rep in BestBuy told me 3" speakers is the biggest size for my
car after he looked up his inventory database. I will check with
BestBuy again and see if 4" speakers can actually be installed.

Jason

I used to have a '91 camry, and in 2001 the year before I sold it I had a
new sound system put in, My front Speakers were Infinity Reference series
3052cf's, which were 3-1/2"s, and they sounded great when paired with my JVC
reciever, and the polk's in the rear. They also have a 92db sensitivity,
the car was sold due to transmission failure, not the front speakers, but on
the other hand, I can't spend too much money on my car stereo anyways
because due to college, I am already spending more money than I'm taking in.
wrote in message
...
I am looking for some advice on improving the sound stage produced by
the speakers in my '89 Toyota Camry.

Here are the components currently installed in my car:
Front Speakers : Rockford Fosgate 3" speakers
Rear Speakers : Pioneer TSA1665 6.5" speakers
In-Dash Receiver: Aiwa CDC-MP3

My primary concern are the high frequency response of the front
speakers and the sound quality of my CD receiver.

The 3" front speakers in my car are in-dash speakers and they face
down toward the floor. They also have lower sensitivity rating than
the rear speakers (80db vs 92db). As the result, when fader control
of the CD receiver is set to neutral, the rear speakers will overwhelm
the front speakers in both volume and high frequency output.
Therefore I usually set the fader control so the front speakers will
sound equally loud as the rear speakers.

But the resulting sound stage is far from good because bass output
from the rear speakers is greatly reduced while the perceived high
frequency output of the front speakers remained low. I don't know if
there are better replacements for my front speakers or not but I have
been told that Rockford 3" speakers are the best in its class.

The Aiwa CDC-MP3 receiver may also to be blamed. The highest treble
setting in CDC-MP3 seem a little low. No matter how I adjust the
fader and treble settings, the front speakers would sound like they
have a frequency cutoff of around 17 to 18khz instead of the
advertised 20khz frequency response. I am thinking about getting a
new head unit but I don't know how much improvement in sound quality I
will hear, especially high frequency output. (Well, CDC-MP3 has a S/N
ratio of 85db so just about everything in the market today should
sound better).

Any advice on what I can do would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jason

P.S. Has anyone sold his or her 88-91 Camry because of the front
speakers?

The guides didn't tell me very correctly for mine. Crutchfield had said
3" or 3.5" speakers with 4" replacements. It confused me until I took
out the speaker "boxes" and looked for myself. Sure enough, 4" speakers
fit, but only if the passive radiators were removed. Then they just
sounded terrible unless I either left the original speakers in and
disconnected or blocked of the smaller hole entirely. Alas, I no longer
have that car though.

Brandonb


wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:08:16 -0500, Brandon Buckner
wrote:


Are those set up like the late 80's (i.e. '86-89) Toyota Celicas? I had
one with 3" speakers that pointed down. Interestingly they came with
there own "box" that was removable and had 4" passive radiators in them.
I found that mounting a 4" speaker in place of the passive radiators and
either leaving the stock speakers in but disconnected or removed but the
hole blocked or replaced with smaller speakers to complement the new 4"
speakers you could get it to sound pretty damn good. Of course, my rears
were blown and hence disconnected and I didn't bother replacing them for
fill so I don't know if they still drowned out the fronts or not. It did
need more midbass though, thats my only complaint.


Sounds like your Celica has the same type of speakers as my Camry.
I didn't know 4" speakers can be used as the in-dash sepeakers. The
sales rep in BestBuy told me 3" speakers is the biggest size for my
car after he looked up his inventory database. I will check with
BestBuy again and see if 4" speakers can actually be installed.

Jason