[David Olsson]

Hello,

I have a couple of newbie questions regarding home recording. I hope
you bear with me, even if the questions seem silly and/or obvious :-)

I have been recording music (electric, bass and acoustic guitars) using
consumer level equipment (sound card integrated into my laptop and a
cheap mic that came with the laptop). I would, however, like to get
some better equipment.

Firstly, I've been thinking about starting with buying a Shure SM-57
microphone (seems suitable for my recording intentions). As I
understand, this microphone has balanced outputs. My consumer level
sound card's inputs are, of course, unbalanced. So my first question
is; can I connect a balanced output directly to an unbalanced input
(using a simple XLR-3.5mm adapter) or will this cause damage to the
equipment/produce tremedously poor signal quality?

Secondly, the mic input on my sound card has a built-in amplifier
which, I assume, isn't very good. So the second step would be to
purchase an exetrnal mic preamp. I am considering a Behringer MIC200.
This preamp accepts balanced XLR input (and hi impendance jack inputs
which I guess can receive input directly from an electric guitar?)
which works great with a Shure SM-57. The problem is that I still have
balanced XLR output which I want to send to my consumer level sound
card line input (not the mic input, right, since the signal already is
amplified?). So, the third step would be to purchase a sound card which
has balanced inputs (I'm considering an ESI Maya 44). Once I have these
three steps, I'm good to go, right? :-)

Finally, I have a question regarding signal level in consumer and pro
level equipment. Apparently, the nominal signal for consumer level
equipment is -10dBV and for pro level its 4dBm. Does this mean that if
I have a pro preamp which outputs signals for other pro equipment, the
signal will saturate the input on my consumer level sound card? Is that
the only problem or are there other issues with the signal levels?

I am very grateful for all answers, tips and suggestions!
/ David

[Laurence Payne]

Forget your domestic soundcard's Mic input. It's a joke. Do you have
a Line In? That's what you'll be using.

The SM57 is a useful all-round microphone. Buy one of the smaller
Behringer mixers. (Not the very cheapest one, it lacks phantom power.
The SM57 doesn't need it, but your next mc probably will.) That will
accept your mic. It will also accept line level inputs. Don't worry
about a balanced connection between mixer and computer. If the output
IS balanced, it can easily be wired unbalanced. It makes minimal if
any difference.

Electric guitar direct into a Line In will work but will probably be
unsatisfactory. Guitarists usually prefer to mic their amplifier (the
SM57 is good) or to use a specialist guitar preamp that emulates the
pleasant distortion of a guitar amp and speaker.


There must be a FAQ for this somewhere? Anyone?

[David Olsson]

Laurence Payne wrote:
Forget your domestic soundcard's Mic input. It's a joke. Do you have
a Line In? That's what you'll be using.

Absolutely, but as it is now I have no choice as I have no preamp...
:-)

The SM57 is a useful all-round microphone. Buy one of the smaller
Behringer mixers. (Not the very cheapest one, it lacks phantom power.
The SM57 doesn't need it, but your next mc probably will.) That will
accept your mic. It will also accept line level inputs. Don't worry
about a balanced connection between mixer and computer. If the output
IS balanced, it can easily be wired unbalanced. It makes minimal if
any difference.

But I will need a proper balanced-to-unbalanced-adapter between my
balanced output and my unbalanced input?

Electric guitar direct into a Line In will work but will probably be
unsatisfactory. Guitarists usually prefer to mic their amplifier (the
SM57 is good) or to use a specialist guitar preamp that emulates the
pleasant distortion of a guitar amp and speaker.

Yes, that's what I intend to do. I asked this question more or less to
verify that I have understood thing correctly. :-)

Thanks for the reply!

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Sep 2006 04:09:23 -0700, "David Olsson"
wrote:

Don't worry
about a balanced connection between mixer and computer. If the output
IS balanced, it can easily be wired unbalanced. It makes minimal if
any difference.

But I will need a proper balanced-to-unbalanced-adapter between my
balanced output and my unbalanced input?

Merely a suitably-wired cable.

Microphones use a balanced connection, usually into an XLR socket.
They are worth balancing.

Line connections MAY be balanced. In very (electrically) noisy
environments, balanced is good. Where the setup keeps changing -
different gear gets plugged in all the time - balanced is good. In a
home studio, if you have a balanced output and a balanced input, sure
- use a balanced cable. But don't obsess on it.

[Laurence Payne]

And forget that Behringer MIC200. It's just a cheap distortion box,
cashing in on the fashion for valve gear. You'll get more use out of
a mixer.

[David Olsson]

Laurence Payne wrote:
And forget that Behringer MIC200. It's just a cheap distortion box,
cashing in on the fashion for valve gear. You'll get more use out of
a mixer.

Ok, thanks for the tip. However, functionality-wise I won't be needing
a mixer and as far as I have gathered, most mixers haven't got as good
preamps as specialized preamps in the same price range. So I figured I
should get a preamp instread of a mixer.

How about the Alto Alpha Mictube. Better choice than the Behringer
mic200? :-)

[Eeyore]

David Olsson wrote:

as far as I have gathered, most mixers haven't got as good
preamps as specialized preamps in the same price range

You have to be joking ! You'll have to pay a heck of a lot more than the
cost of a baby Behringer mixer to get a significantly improved mic pre.

Graham

[Eeyore]

David Olsson wrote:

How about the Alto Alpha Mictube.

Tubes are liked by some for their *inaccuracy* that gives them 'that sound.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"David Olsson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Laurence Payne wrote:
And forget that Behringer MIC200. It's just a cheap distortion box,
cashing in on the fashion for valve gear. You'll get more use out of
a mixer.

Ok, thanks for the tip. However, functionality-wise I won't be needing
a mixer and as far as I have gathered, most mixers haven't got as good
preamps as specialized preamps in the same price range. So I figured I
should get a preamp instread of a mixer.

How about the Alto Alpha Mictube. Better choice than the Behringer
mic200? :-)

What's with this obsession with cheap-ass solid state preamps with
spliced-in thermionic distortion enhancers?

All you need is a Behringer XENYX 802. I picked one up at GC for under $50
plus tax about a week ago. It even has a nice headphone jack.

[David Olsson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
What's with this obsession with cheap-ass solid state preamps with
spliced-in thermionic distortion enhancers?

Cheap-ass preamps are good when your budget isn't that big ;-)

All you need is a Behringer XENYX 802. I picked one up at GC for under $50
plus tax about a week ago. It even has a nice headphone jack.

Seems nice, and I like the price as well. The master output jacks are
however unbalanced. Perhaps this isn't a big issue, as has been
mentioned earlier in this thread?

[Arny Krueger]

"David Olsson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger wrote:
What's with this obsession with cheap-ass solid state preamps with
spliced-in thermionic distortion enhancers?

Cheap-ass preamps are good when your budget isn't that big ;-)

Then stick to the basics! ;-)

All you need is a Behringer XENYX 802. I picked one up at GC for under
$50
plus tax about a week ago. It even has a nice headphone jack.

Seems nice, and I like the price as well. The master output jacks are
however unbalanced. Perhaps this isn't a big issue, as has been
mentioned earlier in this thread?

Unbalanced outputs haven't proven to be a big issue for me. Your PC sound
card has unbalanced inputs, anyway.

But if you have your heart set on balanced outputs, check out the UBB1002
for about $100 street price, and lots more inputs.

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Sep 2006 05:57:26 -0700, "David Olsson"
wrote:

And forget that Behringer MIC200. It's just a cheap distortion box,
cashing in on the fashion for valve gear. You'll get more use out of
a mixer.

Ok, thanks for the tip. However, functionality-wise I won't be needing
a mixer and as far as I have gathered, most mixers haven't got as good
preamps as specialized preamps in the same price range. So I figured I
should get a preamp instread of a mixer.

How about the Alto Alpha Mictube. Better choice than the Behringer
mic200? :-)

No. Same thing basically.
Why are you hooked on a cheap tube preamp? These things don't use
tubes in the way that (arguably) produces that vintage "tube sound"
you know.

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Sep 2006 06:44:38 -0700, "David Olsson"
wrote:

What's with this obsession with cheap-ass solid state preamps with
spliced-in thermionic distortion enhancers?

Cheap-ass preamps are good when your budget isn't that big ;-)

Bad is bad, whatever the price.

When he starts recording more than one track, he'll wish he'd got a
mixer.

[Eeyore]

David Olsson wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:
What's with this obsession with cheap-ass solid state preamps with
spliced-in thermionic distortion enhancers?

Cheap-ass preamps are good when your budget isn't that big ;-)

No. They're *still* rubbish.

You need to think about what it is you really need and ignore the marketing
bull.

Graham

[David Olsson]

Laurence Payne wrote:
Why are you hooked on a cheap tube preamp?

I'm a newbie and, as such, very receptible to marketing. :-) But hey,
that's why I'm here corresponding with you all; now I know better. I'll
probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

[David Olsson]

David Olsson wrote:
I'll probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

If found a store which can give me a good deal on a Behringer Eurorack
UB802. I really can't find any difference between the UB802 and the
XENYX 802 but as the UB802 is cheaper I assume it produces sound of
lower quality? Do you think I will regret purchasing the UB802 instread
of the XENYX? Does anyone know if there is a bif difference between the
two?

[Mr.T]

"David Olsson" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'll probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says
otherwise.

If found a store which can give me a good deal on a Behringer Eurorack
UB802. I really can't find any difference between the UB802 and the
XENYX 802 but as the UB802 is cheaper I assume it produces sound of
lower quality? Do you think I will regret purchasing the UB802 instread
of the XENYX? Does anyone know if there is a bif difference between the
two?

They've changed the microphone Pre's, and the EQ sections. You'd be lucky to
notice much difference, and unlikely to if you are just using the line
inputs.
Either is good value IMO.

MrT.

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Sep 2006 22:06:24 -0700, "David Olsson"
wrote:

I'm a newbie and, as such, very receptible to marketing. :-) But hey,
that's why I'm here corresponding with you all; now I know better. I'll
probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

That will do the job.

And, at that price, if the hobby expands and you move on to bigger and
better, you won't cry over the lost investment!

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Sep 2006 22:20:40 -0700, "David Olsson"
wrote:

If found a store which can give me a good deal on a Behringer Eurorack
UB802. I really can't find any difference between the UB802 and the
XENYX 802 but as the UB802 is cheaper I assume it produces sound of
lower quality? Do you think I will regret purchasing the UB802 instread
of the XENYX? Does anyone know if there is a bif difference between the
two?

If it really does have the same facilities (look a the routing - don't
just count knobs) I'd think it's just the old model. We found out
how to make cheap quiet mixers some years ago. I doubt it sounds any
different.

[Eeyore]

David Olsson wrote:

Laurence Payne wrote:
Why are you hooked on a cheap tube preamp?

I'm a newbie and, as such, very receptible to marketing. :-) But hey,
that's why I'm here corresponding with you all; now I know better. I'll
probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

It's a simple and cost-effective choice.

Graham

[Eeyore]

David Olsson wrote:

David Olsson wrote:
I'll probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

If found a store which can give me a good deal on a Behringer Eurorack
UB802. I really can't find any difference between the UB802 and the
XENYX 802 but as the UB802 is cheaper I assume it produces sound of
lower quality?

There's no direct connection. The UB is simply old stock AIUI.

Do you think I will regret purchasing the UB802 instread
of the XENYX? Does anyone know if there is a bif difference between the
two?

I beleive the Xenyx is meant to have a slightly better mic amp so that would be
the one to go for.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"David Olsson" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'll probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says
otherwise.

If found a store which can give me a good deal on a Behringer Eurorack
UB802. I really can't find any difference between the UB802 and the
XENYX 802 but as the UB802 is cheaper I assume it produces sound of
lower quality? Do you think I will regret purchasing the UB802 instread
of the XENYX? Does anyone know if there is a bif difference between the
two?

They've changed the microphone Pre's, and the EQ sections. You'd be lucky to
notice much difference, and unlikely to if you are just using the line
inputs.

The mono line inputs do go through the mic pre too.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Laurence Payne wrote:

We found out how to make cheap quiet mixers some years ago.

Easily over 20 years ago in fact. Subsequent improvements are quite subtle.

Graham

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
They've changed the microphone Pre's, and the EQ sections. You'd be
lucky to
notice much difference, and unlikely to if you are just using the line
inputs.

The mono line inputs do go through the mic pre too.

Sure, if you need to use them for that. My comments still apply.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
And, at that price, if the hobby expands and you move on to bigger and
better, you won't cry over the lost investment!

Lost investment? I'm sure it will always be used for something regardless of
how many others you need to buy. In fact my UB1002 is used more than the
Midas :-)
(but not for the same requirements obviously)

MrT.

[Bertie the Bunyip]

Eeyore wrote in
:



David Olsson wrote:

Laurence Payne wrote:
Why are you hooked on a cheap tube preamp?

I'm a newbie and, as such, very receptible to marketing. :-) But hey,
that's why I'm here corresponding with you all; now I know better. I'll
probably go with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer if noone says otherwise.

It's a simple and cost-effective choice.

netttkkkoping piece of ****.



Bertie