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Hustle & FLow
Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. Dave |
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#2
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, "David Grant"
wrote: Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. Dave There are an awful lot of them in an awful lot of studios. I think that makes them studio grade. And of course egg crate sort of looks like soundproofing, so it must work. I've even seen shiny tin foil glued to the wall on the basis that being shiny it will somehow "reflect" the sound. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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#4
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David Grant wrote:
Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. But that is what Hollywood is about. It's all about encouraging fantasies. I mean, you don't think an elephant really COULD fly, do you? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#5
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, David Grant wrote
(in article ): Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. Dave The key word there is "soundproof." Many folks confuse soundproofing with acoustical treatment. Usually, both are required. While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. An SM57 is a studio grade mic. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#6
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And I realize all this, but I meant the post in more of a "get ready for
another wave of misconception-ridden wanna-be recording engineers" kind of way. Dave "Ty Ford" wrote in message ... On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, David Grant wrote (in article ): Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. Dave The key word there is "soundproof." Many folks confuse soundproofing with acoustical treatment. Usually, both are required. While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. An SM57 is a studio grade mic. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#7
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Ty Ford wrote:
While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. |
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#8
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"Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased. But that was then and this is now... -- David Morgan (MAMS) http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com Morgan Audio Media Service Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901 _______________________________________ http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com |
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#9
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"David Grant" wrote in message ... Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well. Dave I don't know, an awful lot of hip hop records sound pretty cheap to me. I've heard some high-budget records that sound about the same as the cheap ones, with better mixing. Just about the only reason for a hip hop act to go into a good studio is for protools, for the sound, and an SSL, for the luxury. The egg crate thing is ridiculous, though, you'd think the set designer could at least give someone a call as opposed to inflicting their romantic vision on the world. There are other things you can make out of trash that do a much better job. jb |
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#10
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"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06... "Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased. But that was then and this is now... Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'. jb |
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#11
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"reddred" wrote in message ... "David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06... "Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased. But that was then and this is now... Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'. And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs these days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately and treat them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. g What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM |
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#12
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"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:6tMKe.11871$0d.9714@trnddc06... "reddred" wrote in message ... "David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06... "Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased. But that was then and this is now... Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'. And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs these days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately and treat them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. g What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM My experience is that just about anything can work to diffuse some reflections, unless it's reflective itself. But, yeah, I don't think the newer egg cartons are going to be much better than notebook paper. Pretty soon I think we'll start to see eggs with thicker shells, the multi-billion dollar industry response to the problem of flimsy egg cartons. Never mind that I'd be happy to pay a few cents more to get a durable carton with my eggs. Kind of like the tasteless tomatoes that take longer to rot - make a 'better' tomato instead of growing them nearer to people's houses, or refraining from letting produce sit around in unventilated warehouses. jb |
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#13
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What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons.. Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke. |
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#14
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Haven't seen the movie. But, I have been there, and have been around
tons of folks who have been there. It is not that the egg cartons make for a proper studio. However, back in the day that is all that we had and all that we could afford on a shoestring budget. Of course we aspired to more appropriate and even luxurious studios. Gotta start somewhere, though :-) More importantly, however, it was (and is) ultimately about the music and we had pride even in our makeshift studios, our mostly 2nd hand equipment and our music. Guys, think back to some of the songs that we made in some really crummy spaces and on crummy equipment! You have me thinking, David. For the next studio I design for a client, I think I will go with a nostalgic egg-carton look/feel - ha ha. Hassan David Grant wrote: What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons.. Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke. |
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#15
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Haven't seen the movie. But, I have been there, and have been around
tons of folks who have been there. It is not that the egg cartons make for a proper studio. However, back in the day that is all that we had and all that we could afford on a shoestring budget. Of course we aspired to more appropriate and even luxurious studios. Gotta start somewhere, though :-) More importantly, however, it was (and is) ultimately about the music and we had pride even in our makeshift studios, our mostly 2nd hand equipment and our music. Guys, think back to some of the songs that we made in some really crummy spaces and on crummy equipment! You have me thinking, David. For the next studio I design for a client, I think I will go with a nostalgic egg-carton look/feel - ha ha. Hassan David Grant wrote: What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons.. Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke. |
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#16
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#17
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:54:53 -0400, David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote
(in article xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06): "Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased. But that was then and this is now... Eggzactly. Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to believe my ears than a pdf file on some website. The difference in a flat wall and the panel was obviously audible in terms of what was coming off the wall. I also hand stitched an indian beadspread over them because they were so ****ing ugly. Who knows, perhaps it was a MAGIC bed spread.  Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#18
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:06:58 -0400, David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote
(in article 6tMKe.11871$0d.9714@trnddc06): Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'. And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs these days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately and treat them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. g What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM Right. That's what I used back in the 1970's. Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#20
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David Grant wrote:
What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons.. Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke. I haven't seen the movie. But if it's portraying the guy as someone who's taking some erroneous information and applying it to his endeavor, then it sounds like a very accurate and realistic portrayal to me. Maybe the screenwriter knew this was factually erroneous, but his character didn't know it. ulysses |
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#21
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#22
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Maybe the soundproofing of egg crates will be enhanced by leaving the eggs
in? ;-) regards, Bob Eggzactly. Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to believe my ears than a pdf file on some website. The difference in a flat wall and the panel was obviously audible in terms of what was coming off the wall. I also hand stitched an indian beadspread over them because they were so ****ing ugly. Who knows, perhaps it was a MAGIC bed spread. Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#23
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Buster Mudd wrote: Ty Ford wrote: While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more diffusion than a flat wall. Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF) will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall. Diffusion can be your friend. I'd think more about resonance. Do you think they might resonate in the same range an SM57 ? rd |
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#24
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Ty Ford wrote: On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:06:58 -0400, David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency. DM Right. That's what I used back in the 1970's. I remember those. A band I was with in the '70s had an 'investor' that owned a restraunt. We had warehouse space and an unlimited supply of egg trays. rd |
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#25
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Ty Ford wrote:
Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to believe my ears than a pdf file on some website. Right, Ty, no one in audio is older than you. Hey, I'll bet there's a review of those egg cartons on your website, right? |
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#26
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:18:55 -0400, Buster Mudd wrote
(in article .com): Ty Ford wrote: Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to believe my ears than a pdf file on some website. Right, Ty, no one in audio is older than you. Hey, I'll bet there's a review of those egg cartons on your website, right? Actually, I think Harvey is. When I think about how much I thought I knew back then and how much I have learned since then, I am shocked and humbled. I wasn't getting paid to write reviews back then. I was writing weird ad copy for WHFS in Bethesda, MD so the other hippies wouldn't **** and moan that we had sold out. Regards, Ty Ford PS: It never occurred to me that egg cartons aren't what they used to be, but then neither is the Sennheiser 421. -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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