Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:24:02 GMT, dizzy wrote:

I have a fast car... '98 Toyota Supra TT (Twin Turbo) with the
6-speed Getrag manual. 320HP stock, estimated 350HP with aftermarket
exhaust system w/high-flow cat.

Fun toy. It's got a surprisingly good sound system, too! 8)

A very fine car, should have sold *much* better than it did.

The strong Yen of the mid-90's kind of killed it. By the time of the
late-90's correction (Toyota reduced the price by $10k in '97), it was
too late.

It was a tough sell in the US even at the lower price . Say "I have a
Corvette", and everyone knows. Say "I have a Toyota Supra" and they
think "Huh? Is that some FWD economy car?"

You have
to admire the cunning way that the massive rear spoiler doesn't
obstruct rear vision!

The spoiler's ugly, though. I took it off years ago. I never did
care for it, but the clincher was driving side-by-side down a highway
next to (what appeared to be) a bog-standard Civic 4-door, on which
was affixed an almost identical wing. I was embarrassed!

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and chassis, making it
extremely light --under 2900 pounds. The sports car also uses a
6-cylinder version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting a
carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries? It's pretty much
as risible as seeing some fat Californian on a $5,000 mountain bike
made entirely of carbon-fibre and Titanium..................

Lotus makes 'extremely light' cars using conventional materials - it
takes *two* of them to weigh the same as a Volta. That way, a 200HP
engine will provide the same performance while using half the fuel.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"dizzy" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

BTW, Top Gear is a great show. Shows up on cable here -
Discovery Channel.

Eh? I could not find it on their site... Only certain
times of the year?

I guess. It's off right now. Fun while it lasted!

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and chassis, making it
extremely light --under 2900 pounds. The sports car also uses a
6-cylinder version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting a
carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries? It's pretty much
as risible as seeing some fat Californian on a $5,000 mountain bike
made entirely of carbon-fibre and Titanium..................

Lotus makes 'extremely light' cars using conventional materials - it
takes *two* of them to weigh the same as a Volta. That way, a 200HP
engine will provide the same performance while using half the fuel.


The point is that Toyota sells hundreds of cars, and probably thousands, for
every one car Lotus sells. And Toyota does not go bankrupt every few years.

Cheers,

Margaret

Very funny post! 8)


flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.
And you can save a significant amount of weight by dispensing with
frilly extras like sound deadening, carpeting, padded dashes,
automatic choke, bonnet up latch/springs, roll up windows, adjustable
seat frames, and the like. One terrific bonus was you never had to
worry about someone changing your seat position because, besides no
one over 5' 10" being able to get in the thing and most everyone else
too scared to try, there was nothing to adjust..

It had two trunks though, one in the front and one in the rear,
although the front was pretty much occupied with things traditionally
found in an engine compartment, like wiper motor, radiator, rad fan,
etc, plus spare tire and the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

Speaking of which, there are distinct advantages to manual everything.
Take the time the bicycle hand brake cable they used for a throttle
linkage decided to lock up. I simply pulled out the prudently user
supplied mechanic's tool kit, disconnected the cable, readjusted the
manual choke for maximum throttle advance before kicking in the
butterfly, and drove home with the manual choke control. Folks with
'automatic everything' would be stuck driving around in windows up
air-conditioned leather seat carpeted luxury listening to the 5 disc
CD changer not having any fun at all.

Super fun little car with, as the saying went, "en engine where the
rear seats used to be" and perfect for a Walter Mitty complex. That 4
banger right at your ear drums sounded just like a B-17 so wherever
you went you were "on a mission" and at 140 on any side street the
cops subbed nicely for ME-109s. Bogie at 2 o'clock!

The only real drawbacks were the 40 degree blind spots on either side
and the unfortunate placement of a 3 inch slit they called the rear
window right at normal U.S. car headlight height. There'd be this
blinding flash of halogen light like a super nova went off inside the
passenger compartment and you had to scrunch down, no mean feat
considering the seat cushion (the one luxury) was already sitting on
the floorboard, to get a workable angle bounce through the rear view
mirror so one could identify the rollers on top the police car. Could
have used a tail gunner.

Fortunately that only happened once and he simply wanted me to clear
the high speed lane, what with us at double the speed limit slowing
things down and all.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:15:30 -0600, flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.

It's always fun to see someone complaining about a cutting-edge
high-tech car company by using a 40 year old example..........

The plain fact is that the Toyota Volta is a joke, you can't call a
car 'extremely light' when it weighs 2900 lbs, no matter how much
carbon-fibre you've thrown at the bodywork!

BTW, you didn't mention the weight of that old Europa of yours - it
was less than 1500 lbs, with a steel chassis, steel wheels, iron-block
engine and standard GRP body, no magic materials..................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.
And you can save a significant amount of weight by dispensing with
frilly extras like sound deadening, carpeting, padded dashes,
automatic choke, bonnet up latch/springs, roll up windows, adjustable
seat frames, and the like. One terrific bonus was you never had to
worry about someone changing your seat position because, besides no
one over 5' 10" being able to get in the thing and most everyone else
too scared to try, there was nothing to adjust..

A girlfriend bought a new Lotus Elan 130, the two plus two legless
midgets version. On day one she pulled the door closed and ripped the
doorhandle right out. The "trim" was a piece of cardboard that tore
when I flicked it with my fingernail. The doorhandle was attached only
to the "trim". Even Polski Fiats were better made than that! She kept
the Lotus two days before I explained to the dealer that, if he didn't
want me to smear him right out of business, he would give her back
every penny she paid and in addition, as a punishment for misleading
her that the Lotus was a real car, give her a stiff discount on a used
Porsche 356 cabriolet as well.

That a used Porsche was the same price as a new Lotus tells you
everything you want to know about the relative value of the cars.

Mind you, whenever I drove a Lotus belonging to someone else who
lovingly kept it going, I loved the experience, but never enough to
interfere with my (intermittent) love affair with the ever-reliable
Zuffenhausen Flyer. "A sports car should be as light as is reliable but
no lighter," said Albert Einstein, the noted sports car and
interstellar exponent, and he was right.

The Lotus was a good car for people who lived in lanes not further than
ten miles from a commuter train station -- and who could afford half a
dozen Lotuses so one at least was always available to drive to the
station. Beyond ten miles, if the Lotus still hadn't fallen to pieces,
the buzzing and small niggles outweighed the roadholding pleasure.

the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

ROTFLOL.

You are clearly an unsuitable customer for a British "sports" car,
Flipper. You want to work on your masochism. Lots.

Andre Jute
A big 'un will always beat a small 'un -- Charles Darwin

It had two trunks though, one in the front and one in the rear,
although the front was pretty much occupied with things traditionally
found in an engine compartment, like wiper motor, radiator, rad fan,
etc, plus spare tire and the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

Speaking of which, there are distinct advantages to manual everything.
Take the time the bicycle hand brake cable they used for a throttle
linkage decided to lock up. I simply pulled out the prudently user
supplied mechanic's tool kit, disconnected the cable, readjusted the
manual choke for maximum throttle advance before kicking in the
butterfly, and drove home with the manual choke control. Folks with
'automatic everything' would be stuck driving around in windows up
air-conditioned leather seat carpeted luxury listening to the 5 disc
CD changer not having any fun at all.

Super fun little car with, as the saying went, "en engine where the
rear seats used to be" and perfect for a Walter Mitty complex. That 4
banger right at your ear drums sounded just like a B-17 so wherever
you went you were "on a mission" and at 140 on any side street the
cops subbed nicely for ME-109s. Bogie at 2 o'clock!

The only real drawbacks were the 40 degree blind spots on either side
and the unfortunate placement of a 3 inch slit they called the rear
window right at normal U.S. car headlight height. There'd be this
blinding flash of halogen light like a super nova went off inside the
passenger compartment and you had to scrunch down, no mean feat
considering the seat cushion (the one luxury) was already sitting on
the floorboard, to get a workable angle bounce through the rear view
mirror so one could identify the rollers on top the police car. Could
have used a tail gunner.

Fortunately that only happened once and he simply wanted me to clear
the high speed lane, what with us at double the speed limit slowing
things down and all.

Dédé Jute a écrit :



A girlfriend bought a new Lotus Elan 130, the two plus two legless
midgets version.


If she really loves you, she'd better purchase an ambulance... :-D



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting
a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta being based on
lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect NiCad.

"flipper" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of
putting a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid
batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta
being based on lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect
NiCad.


NiMH would be a better guess considering that Toyota
formed a joint venture with Panasonic Batteries to make
the things and it enjoys a 50% share of the overall HEV
battery market.

Interesting!

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting
a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta being based on
lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect NiCad.

Given their claims of 'extremely light' for this tubby beast, wouldn't
you have expected Lithium-ion? :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of
putting a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid
batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta
being based on lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect
NiCad.

Given their claims of 'extremely light' for this tubby
beast, wouldn't you have expected Lithium-ion? :-)

Well, *anything* modern but lead-acid.

Agreed that Lithium Ion has a big advantage for weight, but may have issues
with number of charge/discharge cycles.

http://www.buchmann.ca/chap2-page2.asp