Hello! Let me start off by saying that while I'm pretty well schooled
at higher-end home audio, I'm a car audio knucklehead. As the proud
owner of a 2004 Honda Accord EX, I'm looking for some suggestions for
speaker upgrades. My issues are many, and I'm hoping that some
knowledgeable souls out there can enlighten me. I'd appreciate any
and all comments! So, to get started, first here are my requirements
(ok, maybe not REQUIRED, but at least desired):

A) Keep factory head unit (not navigation equipped).
B) Spend $200-400/pair for speakers.
C) I could care less about "big bass", but would rather concentrate on
faithful reproduction of detailed music at low to medium volume
levels.
D) Replace all speakers in dash, door, and rear deck locations.
E) Try to avoid an amp, but willing to add one or two if necessary
($300-400?)

Ok, now, here are the issues I'm confused about:

1) I'm having trouble finding "drop-in" speakers. For example,
there's nothing on Crutchfield or many other manufactuer sites that
"fits my car". They don't necessarily have to be plug-and-play, but
I'd like to get by with as little modification as possible. Thoughts?
I'm planning on having the install done by a "professional", so they
can probably handle a little more tweaking than I would want to.

2) This car has dash mounting areas for small speakers. I don't know
if the factory speakers in the dash location are full-range, or just
tweeters. I'd like to get a component set for the front, but am
wondering how the factory wiring is set up. I guess the real question
is: how are the speaker outputs of this factory radio configured? Is
there an internal crossover that splits the front outputs into mid and
high frequencies for individual connection to the door and dash
speakers, or are all the outputs full range?

3) If I add an amp, what does that mean for this six-speaker setup?
First of all, this radio (to the best of my knowledge) does not have
line-level outputs. So I'd need to convert the speaker-level outputs
down to line-level for connection to an external amp. What quality
issues am I looking at there? Secondly, I'm assuming I'd need two
stereo amps... one for the front, and one for the rear. Even though
there's six speaker locations, if I put components up front all four
front pieces will run off just one amp - correct?

4) What's the general consensus on Boston Accoustics' lineup of
speakers? I've heard good things, but haven't actually heard the
speakers themselves yet.

5) And finally, what would YOU put in this car if YOU owned it?

I realize that I just asked a lot of (probably dumb) questions, and it
would take a generous 15 minutes for someone to actually try to answer
them. I send thanks in advance for anyone willing to do so.

Keep on a 'rockin.
Ryan

Ryan Haskell wrote:

1) I'm having trouble finding "drop-in" speakers. For example,
there's nothing on Crutchfield or many other manufactuer sites that
"fits my car". They don't necessarily have to be plug-and-play, but
I'd like to get by with as little modification as possible. Thoughts?

Your front doors are either 6.5" or 5.25" (depending on if you have a
premium sound system). The rear speakers are 6.5". The vast majority of
aftermarket speakers will bolt right up, no cutting or modification
required. You can also purchase adapters to connect the aftermarket
speakers to the stock plugs without splicing into the factory wires.

2) This car has dash mounting areas for small speakers. I don't know
if the factory speakers in the dash location are full-range, or just
tweeters.

They may not even be in there!

I'd like to get a component set for the front, but am
wondering how the factory wiring is set up.

A competant installer (or even a fairly incompetant one) can run wires
to these locations as needed. The good news is that - in spite of the
separation from the midbass woofer to the tweeter, the factor tweeter
locations usually work out quite nicely imaging wise (though I think you
may have to set the tweeters out of phase with the mids).

I guess the real question
is: how are the speaker outputs of this factory radio configured? Is
there an internal crossover that splits the front outputs into mid and
high frequencies for individual connection to the door and dash
speakers, or are all the outputs full range?

There is a crossover element on the tweeters, and the woofers are run
"full range", though the impedence curve of the mids tend to push the
highs into the tweeter.

3) If I add an amp, what does that mean for this six-speaker setup?

A componant set (mids and tweets) will have a crossover module included.
This will provide frequency separation for the drivers, and allow you to
run mids and highs off of a single channel. If you purchase a four
channel amp, two channels can run the front four speakers, and two
channels can run the rear two (or, you can bridge the rear channels to
run a small sub).

First of all, this radio (to the best of my knowledge) does not have
line-level outputs. So I'd need to convert the speaker-level outputs
down to line-level for connection to an external amp. What quality
issues am I looking at there?

I think you already know. There's a small risk of getting ground loop
induced noise. There's a definate risk of phase shifting in the audio
signal, but since all your speakers will be phase shifted the same
amount, it won't actually matter. I've also noticed that some LOCs muddy
up the frequency response just a little (using inductive coupling to do
the conversion).

Now here's the good news. You probably won't need LOCs at all. Most amps
produced today are build for car audio systems which use "high voltage
preamps" - 4, 8, and even 10 volt preamp signals are common. If your
installer turns the input level adjustment down (increasing the input
impedence), you can actually run the amplified outputs directly into the
RCA inputs on the amp, and it won't bother the amps (most amplifier
componants are rated at 16 to 20 volts anyway, which only makes sense in
a car) or the deck (its actually easier for the amp to try and drive
higher loads, because there is less current being drawn from the circuitry).

Secondly, I'm assuming I'd need two
stereo amps... one for the front, and one for the rear. Even though
there's six speaker locations, if I put components up front all four
front pieces will run off just one amp - correct?

Two stereo amps, or a single four channel amp, will be sufficient to
drive all six speakers. You can also get a 5 channel amp to add a sub.
You want a sub...you know you do.

4) What's the general consensus on Boston Accoustics' lineup of
speakers? I've heard good things, but haven't actually heard the
speakers themselves yet.

I'll say it. I love 'em. BA is generally considered a very good speaker.
Of course, it's all up to your ears. You may decide you want MB Quarts
(eek) or Dynaudios.

5) And finally, what would YOU put in this car if YOU owned it?

A HEMI. That's right, I'd gut the floorpan, gank out that sissy rice
motor, and drop a hemi with a mopar speedshift tranny, and a dana rear
end (probably one made for a jeep since the track is so narrow). Then
I'd get a paintjob with custom graphics that said "The Anti-riced" (get
it?). Lastly, I'd put a little plastic Jesus on the dashboard.

I realize that I just asked a lot of (probably dumb) questions, and it
would take a generous 15 minutes for someone to actually try to answer
them. I send thanks in advance for anyone willing to do so.

Actually, you had very well structured and though out questions. Its
clear you did some research BEFORE ditty-bopping in here. If you need
anything else, dont hesitate to ask.

Lastly though, I don't think I can put enough emphasis on a sub. You
don't sound like the kind of guy who needs much, but add a small 8 or
10" woofer with about 100 watts (RMS) of power can fill out the low end
nicely. JL Audio makes some very nice enclosures just for your car that
won't rob you of much trunkspace, but will deliver clean smooth bass.

http://www.jlaudio.com/stealthbox/accord.html

Or you could get your installer to fabricate a box, but the JL
stealthbox ought to be cheaper.

Let me know how you enjoy it all.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.

well.. I have the 180watt stereo in the 04 accord. I know that you
stereo has a diff power, but the circuitry may be the same. If so
then the sound is damn clean. Its not like you have a choice, but th
head unit should be good enough for your purpose. I have heard time an
again that honda stereos are made from alpine.... a great company.

If you are gonna go speakers... do not go for boston acoustics. When'
the last time youve seen wilson audio, thiel, b&w, paradigm etc. a
your local chain store? You never have, so you search for the specialt
shop to find the good stuff. The same is true for car audio. A goo
place to start would be to find a Focal dealer near you. Talk to them
much as you would when comparing Arcam to Musical Fidelity. Did yo
know that McIntosh makes car speakers? and amps? oh yeah, and the soun
is NIIIIIIICE.

image dynamics makes a very nice accurate and detailed sub, wherea
Jlaudio will give you nice "bump."

Another thing... if you are gonna stay factory headunit, then you wil
NEED an efficient speaker. Dynaudio, or Mcintosh or even bosto
acoustics will not be happy with low power. I strongly suggest Foca
Polyglass for your needs. It has the highest sensitivity I have hear
(or seen @ 93db). It is also a nice speaker for midrange stuff i
classical, vocal, jazz horns. Im sure this will be plenty power fo
you. A Zapco amp with Image dynamics IDQ10 sub is a great way to go.

Just take a piece of advice from a home audiophile... the car is NOT
place to nit-pick at frequency response, imaging, dimension, spacing o
instrument etc because road noise covers sooo many frequencies
-
rpgonzale
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locations usually work out quite nicely imaging wise (though I think you
may have to set the tweeters out of phase with the mids).

Lizard, in what case would you reverse the phase on the tweeters? Is it
dependant on the location vs the mids?

Z. Gluhak wrote:
Lizard, in what case would you reverse the phase on the tweeters? Is it
dependant on the location vs the mids?

It depends on the linear distance from the driver, and from the
listener. There's a formula for figuring it out (if you like trig), or
you could just hook them up in phase, then out of phase, and see which
you like more (some xovers even have a phase switch for the tweets).
When I ran my dei componants, I hooked up a switch to change the
tweeters phase 0/90/180, and I found that for my nissan with tweeters at
the apex of the a-pillar and the dash, and the woofers in the doors,
that 90 degrees phase sounded best.


--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.

"thelizman" wrote in message
...
Z. Gluhak wrote:
Lizard, in what case would you reverse the phase on the tweeters? Is it
dependant on the location vs the mids?

It depends on the linear distance from the driver, and from the
listener. There's a formula for figuring it out (if you like trig), or
you could just hook them up in phase, then out of phase, and see which
you like more (some xovers even have a phase switch for the tweets).
When I ran my dei componants, I hooked up a switch to change the
tweeters phase 0/90/180, and I found that for my nissan with tweeters at
the apex of the a-pillar and the dash, and the woofers in the doors,
that 90 degrees phase sounded best.


Thanks I will try that. I don;t like trig...not at all. Since my Dyns don't
have a switch on the passive xover I will just reverse the leads and see how
they sound. Mine are pretty close to me, in the top of the a-pillar in my
VW.