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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting

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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

hank alrich wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting


Is there a histogram somewhere of number of hits for all
who charted? Be interesting to see how that works. Bet
it's a power law.

--
Les Cargill
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

wrote:

I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as
a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but
then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100...


Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often
it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay.

Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it
served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time
it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and
what.

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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On 3/13/2012 8:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
wrote:

I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as
a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but
then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100...


Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often
it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay.

Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it
served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time
it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and
what.


It seems that listening to the radio is something only old guys do these
days. I get the feeling that a lot of kids don't want to hear stuff that
gets played on that archaic medium. Pop stars no longer hold much sway,
these days - unless they're country stars, of course.
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Mar 13, 1:27*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats:



Makes an already gloomy prospect even gloomier for those aspiring to
be "pop stars". Even if you make it to the Impossible Dream and have a
charting hit, odds are it won't last.

Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one-
hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't
always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears.


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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On 3/13/2012 4:19 PM, dsi1 wrote:

It seems that listening to the radio is something only old
guys do these days.


Hey! I resemble that remark! I listen to the radio, though
much of it these days is college and community radio
stations that I get over the Internet. It comes out of the
same speakers as are connected to my FM receiver, though.

I like it. I have a handful of stations that I can listen to
nearly any time, not hear the same 10 songs over and over,
hear music that I enjoy, and other than during fundraising
week (and there seems to be a plot for them all to do it at
the same time so you can't escape) there are no commercials
(though there are "sponsorships" and "underwriters"

Pop stars no longer hold much sway, these days -
unless they're country stars, of course.


Doesn't bother me. I rarely hear pop stars, and when I do,
it's only coincidental.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Mar 13, 1:38*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:
I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as
a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but
then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100...


Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often
it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay.

Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it
served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time
it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and
what.



Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association
of "pop hit" with "good music".

But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like".
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

wrote:

On Mar 13, 1:38 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:
I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as
a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but
then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100...


Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often
it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay.

Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it
served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time
it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and
what.



Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association
of "pop hit" with "good music".

But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like".


Alison Kraus has made that chart.

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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On 3/14/2012 8:28 AM, hank alrich wrote:
wrote:

On Mar 13, 1:38 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:
I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as
a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but
then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100...

Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often
it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay.

Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it
served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time
it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and
what.



Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association
of "pop hit" with "good music".

But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like".


Alison Kraus has made that chart.


My mistake. I thought it was "good wine is whatever you've got."
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Mar 13, 5:27*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...HankandShaidri


It's a numbers game.
"There's only room for so many at the top"
meets "Every dog has its day".


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On Mar 14, 12:20*pm, muzician21 wrote:

Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one-
hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't
always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears.


Fitting into the industry machine helps. (And that does
take talent). Connecting with ordinary people. Timing.
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders



"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

********************

I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity
and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry
marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency
statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something
like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print of
that.

Tony D

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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

In article ,
"Tony Done" wrote:

I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity
and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry
marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency
statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something
like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print of
that.

Tony D


Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have
crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck
rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not
quality.

MJRB
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"Mike Brown" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Tony Done" wrote:

I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity
and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry
marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency
statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something
like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print
of
that.

Tony D


Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have
crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck
rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not
quality.

MJRB

***************

That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I
wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion I
would guess.

Tony D

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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"Tony Done" wrote in message
...
Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have
crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck
rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not
quality.

MJRB

***************

That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I
wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion
I would guess.


Right, I wouldn't call number 100 a "hit", top 40 maybe, but top 10 seems
more like it to me.

Trevor.




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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

Trevor wrote:

"Tony Done" wrote in message
...
Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have
crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck
rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not
quality.

MJRB

***************

That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I
wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion
I would guess.


Right, I wouldn't call number 100 a "hit", top 40 maybe, but top 10 seems
more like it to me.


With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with
substantial sales and airplay.

--
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http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with
substantial sales and airplay.


As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and
I don't agree!
If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit".
Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who
failed to make the top 100 I guess :-)

Trevor.


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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

Trevor wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with
substantial sales and airplay.


As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and
I don't agree!
If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit".
Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who
failed to make the top 100 I guess :-)

Trevor.


It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for
decades. They have their reasons, derived from what I wrote. Out of the
total number of releases, a very tiny percentage makes/made the top 100.

If you put out a song and it made the top 100, you'd be busy enough for
a while to think you had a hit.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:20:12 -0700, muzician21 wrote
(in article
):

Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one-
hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't
always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears.
------------------------------snip------------------------------


The other interesting stat: it's a rare musician or group who can sustain a
career for more than 4 or 5 years. Even more rare when an artist like Paul
McCartney, Cher, or Elton John (there's an interesting trilogy) who can keep
having a major music career for four decades or more.

These stats have been presented in Joel Whitburn's RECORD RESEARCH books for
many years:

http://www.recordresearch.com/

Note that this only accounts for the BILLBOARD statistics alone. There's a
lot of other ways to assess musical success or historical importance; for
example, artists like Neil Diamond and Barbra Streisand still sell a lot of
albums and do well in live performances, but haven't had bona fide Top 40
hits in years. So the pop charts alone don't tell the whole story.

Note also that BILLBOARD magazine is in terrible trouble. I believe they
recently jettisoned a good chunk of their staff, including their editor and
publisher:

http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-...tor-out-other-
top-staffers-follow-36116

--MFW

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On Mar 16, 1:42*am, (hank alrich) wrote:

It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for
decades. They have their reasons, derived from what I wrote. Out of the
total number of releases, a very tiny percentage makes/made the top 100.

If you put out a song and it made the top 100, you'd be busy enough for
a while to think you had a hit.


If I put out a song and it made the top 100, I'd probably be lying on
the ground surrounded by paramedics trying to revive me.

CLEAR!!!

bzzzzzzzzzzWHUMP!



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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 02:46:39 -0700, against all advice, something
compelled Marc Wielage , to say:

Note also that BILLBOARD magazine is in terrible trouble.



Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as
opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should
like?



--

I believe a self-righteous liberal or conservative with a cause
is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

Andy Rooney
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours,
and
I don't agree!
If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit".
Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those
who
failed to make the top 100 I guess :-)


It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for
decades.


They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given
a right to decide by God in any case. My opinion is as valid (or not) as
yours or theirs.
And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which
don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the
competition at the time of release.

Trevor.


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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

Trevor wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours,
and
I don't agree!
If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit".
Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those
who
failed to make the top 100 I guess :-)


It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for
decades.


They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given
a right to decide by God in any case.


They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is
religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are
gathered.

My opinion is as valid (or not) as
yours or theirs.


Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions.
They're working from stats. You?

And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which
don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the
competition at the time of release.


Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale.

--
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http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that
for
decades.


They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not
given
a right to decide by God in any case.


They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is
religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are
gathered.


Right, a sampled suryvey open to big errors. And the cut off of top 10, top
40, top 100, top 1,000, top 1 million, is simply whatever they or you choose
at any given time. Hardly something to be so pig headed about!


My opinion is as valid (or not) as
yours or theirs.


Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions.
They're working from stats. You?


Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even
the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either,
usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100 list
however)
That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the
matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else.



And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which
don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the
competition at the time of release.


Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale.


AFAIK you were around long before scans existed, just as I was. They simply
sampled a number of *selected* resale outlets for their sales figures,
however the shops compiled them.
And surely you remember all the rigging that went on at the time, and payola
in the broadcast industry to increase sales. Or is you memory going?

Trevor.


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Trevor wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that
for
decades.

They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not
given
a right to decide by God in any case.


They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is
religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are
gathered.


Right, a sampled suryvey open to big errors. And the cut off of top 10, top
40, top 100, top 1,000, top 1 million, is simply whatever they or you choose
at any given time. Hardly something to be so pig headed about!


"Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales data for Nielsen since March 1,
1991"

Something maybe you should look into if you want to sound like you know
something about this.

My opinion is as valid (or not) as
yours or theirs.


Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions.
They're working from stats. You?


Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even
the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either,
usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100 list
however)


See above. Some aspects of the business stil use an outdated
methodology, but the charts have been based on sales for more than two
decades.

That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the
matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else.


Opinions may or may not be based on knowledge or experience. I weight
them accordingly.

And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which
don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the
competition at the time of release.


Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale.


AFAIK you were around long before scans existed, just as I was. They simply
sampled a number of *selected* resale outlets for their sales figures,
however the shops compiled them.
And surely you remember all the rigging that went on at the time, and payola
in the broadcast industry to increase sales. Or is you memory going?


"Sales data from cash registers is collected from 14,000 retail, mass
merchant, and non-traditional (on-line stores, venues, digital music
services, etc.) outlets in the United States, Canada and the U.K."

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri


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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
"Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales data for Nielsen since March 1,
1991"
Something maybe you should look into if you want to sound like you know
something about this.


Why, I'm certainly interested in what happened before 1991, even if you
aren't.


Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even
the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either,
usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100
list
however)


See above. Some aspects of the business stil use an outdated
methodology, but the charts have been based on sales for more than two
decades.


Which excludes muuch of the music I have then. I was sure you were more than
21YO yourself?


That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the
matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else.


Opinions may or may not be based on knowledge or experience. I weight
them accordingly.


Me too, but I still get to have one, just as you seem to think you do.


"Sales data from cash registers is collected from 14,000 retail, mass
merchant, and non-traditional (on-line stores, venues, digital music
services, etc.) outlets in the United States, Canada and the U.K."


NOW it is, so what?

Trevor.


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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:11:21 -0700, Steve Daniels wrote
(in article ):

Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as
opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should
like?
------------------------------snip------------------------------


I think the death of mass-market CD stores and the downward-spiral of radio
ratings, plus the awful economy, has taken its toll on a lot businesses.
Especially Music and Radio.

It's scary to reflect that right now, if you can sell 5000 albums in one
week, that's enough to put you on the BILLBOARD Top 200. That used to be
considered a flop. I seem to recall a few months ago where a #1 album only
sold about 60,000 copies, which is stunningly low compared to where things
used to be.

The economy sucks.

--MFW

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Mike Brown Mike Brown is offline
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

In article ,
Marc Wielage wrote:

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:11:21 -0700, Steve Daniels wrote
(in article ):

Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as
opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should
like?
------------------------------snip------------------------------


I think the death of mass-market CD stores and the downward-spiral of radio
ratings, plus the awful economy, has taken its toll on a lot businesses.
Especially Music and Radio.

It's scary to reflect that right now, if you can sell 5000 albums in one
week, that's enough to put you on the BILLBOARD Top 200. That used to be
considered a flop. I seem to recall a few months ago where a #1 album only
sold about 60,000 copies, which is stunningly low compared to where things
used to be.

The economy sucks.

--MFW


There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have
survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day.

MJRB
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Marc Wielage[_2_] Marc Wielage[_2_] is offline
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote
(in article ):

There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have
survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day.
------------------------------snip------------------------------


Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA.
I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. We
have Amoeba, which is a California chain of used CD & LP stores, but all the
other chains -- Tower Records, Virgin Music, etc. -- have all vanished.
And the CD bins at the major electronic retailers here (Best Buy, Fry's,
etc.) are getting smaller and smaller. Very sad.

--MFW

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Mike Brown Mike Brown is offline
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

In article ,
Marc Wielage wrote:

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote
(in article ):

There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have
survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day.
------------------------------snip------------------------------


Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA.
I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. We
have Amoeba, which is a California chain of used CD & LP stores, but all the
other chains -- Tower Records, Virgin Music, etc. -- have all vanished.
And the CD bins at the major electronic retailers here (Best Buy, Fry's,
etc.) are getting smaller and smaller. Very sad.

--MFW


This one sells CDs, DVDs, and Books, it's been around for quite a while
and I'm hoping it manages to survive.

MJRB


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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
.com...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote
(in article ):

There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have
survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day.
------------------------------snip------------------------------


Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA.
I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else.


What does it matter if they sell other things? Our biggest CD store chain is
JB HiFi who sell all manner of audio and video equipment, along with CD's,
DVD's and Blu-Ray discs. They also stock far more CD's that any of the CD
only stores ever did, and those that have managed to survive. Although a
couple of dedicated ones do specialise in niche genres only if that's your
thing. Most of those have long gone though, and I suspect any left will soon
follow. Far easier for them to reach a wider audience at lower cost on the
web now.

Trevor.


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[email protected] galooch88@yahoo.co.uk is offline
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Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders

On Mar 23, 10:30*pm, "Trevor" wrote:
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message

.com...

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote
(in article ):


There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have
survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day.
------------------------------snip------------------------------


Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA.
I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else.


What does it matter if they sell other things? Our biggest CD store chain is
JB HiFi who sell all manner of audio and video equipment, along with CD's,
DVD's and Blu-Ray discs. They also stock far more CD's that any of the CD
only stores ever did, and those that have managed to survive. Although a
couple of dedicated ones do specialise in niche genres only if that's your
thing. Most of those have long gone though, and I suspect any left will soon
follow. Far easier for them to reach a wider audience at lower cost on the
web now.

Trevor.


These stats are misleading. The Billboard top 100 is not the top 40
that are in active on air rotation A lot of flops just sneak into the
90 to 100 spots and fall off. Top 40 is the major league.
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Posts: 2,820
Default The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders


wrote in message
...
These stats are misleading. The Billboard top 100 is not the top 40
that are in active on air rotation A lot of flops just sneak into the
90 to 100 spots and fall off. Top 40 is the major league.


That was my point, seems others disagree with us.

Trevor.




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