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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
Hi Rec audio folks.
Man oh man, I feel like the folks at Focusrite screwed me. I purchased a Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro on Ebay. I had been searching for a channel strip. I had heard good things about this unit. I got it and it seemed ok, but still, the sounds were not what I had been expecting. I have a friend who is much more experienced at recording. He lives fifty miles away and I don't get up there much. I realize now I should have took him up on his offer to come check some stuff out before I spent my money. I told him that I was not satisfied with the VM Pro and he said come up and we would test it out and do some comparisons to his pres. I get there and we setup a test with his Seagull acoustic guitar (awesome sound). He has a nice room and a big Mackie board. Well, he says we will compare my VM pro with a couple pres in the same price range that he has. First we recorded the song amazing grace with the seagull. He puts two guitar tracks, far left and far right and he does a vocal down the center. The first unit he used was an FMR RNP in front of an RNC compressor. When I heard the three tracks over his studio monitors and then his studio headphones, I was dumbfounded at the delicate color, the detail, the beauty of the recording. Then, he did the same three tracks again and used a Presonus Eureka preamp strip. Again, the recording was stunning. Magical, delicate, Different than the RNP, but not better or worse. The rnp had a type of color while the Eureka had intimate detail and a 3d quality. Both sent chills down my spine, literally, goose bumps. I swear, I could not stop listening to the tracks made with these two preamps. They sounded like I had bought a CD of the song at a store, that's how good. Well, then he hooked up my VM pro and did the same three tracks again, and I was heart broken. My VM pro didn't even come close to the RNP and Eureka. NOT EVEN CLOSE. The poorer quality was instantly heard. My friend thought that it could be that he wasn't used to the compressor settings on the VM, so he recorded the 3 tracks twice more, each time playing with the controls, but nothing changed. It wasn't the eq or the compression, the damn VM pro just sounded no where near as good as the RNP and Eureka. He tried to console me and said I would probably make many bad decisions on my road to recording. I feel so po'ed at Focusrite. When they made this product, didn't they sit down and compare it to other units in the same price range? No way they compared it to the RNP and Eureka cause they would have been too ashamed to release the thing had they done that. I feel like I wasted my money and I got a sound not much better than my hundred dollar M-audio DMP3. The RNP and Eureka were simply in another world. What kills me is that I could have got a used RNP for 450 or so, I saw used Eureka for around $350-400 My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Focusrite, why even put these out on the market without comparing the quality of sound to the competition and making sure you can compete? had you compared these units you would have said to yourself "hmm, our unit sucks in comparison to theirs, lets get it right before we release this product." Sorry for ranting, but I feel I wasted hundreds of bucks and could have gotten something of better quality for the money. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
"Jeff" wrote in message ... Hi Rec audio folks. Man oh man, I feel like the folks at Focusrite screwed me. I purchased a Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro on Ebay. I had been searching for a channel strip. I had heard good things about this unit. I got it and it seemed ok, but still, the sounds were not what I had been expecting. I have a friend who is much more experienced at recording. He lives fifty miles away and I don't get up there much. I realize now I should have took him up on his offer to come check some stuff out before I spent my money. I told him that I was not satisfied with the VM Pro and he said come up and we would test it out and do some comparisons to his pres. I get there and we setup a test with his Seagull acoustic guitar (awesome sound). He has a nice room and a big Mackie board. Well, he says we will compare my VM pro with a couple pres in the same price range that he has. First we recorded the song amazing grace with the seagull. He puts two guitar tracks, far left and far right and he does a vocal down the center. The first unit he used was an FMR RNP in front of an RNC compressor. When I heard the three tracks over his studio monitors and then his studio headphones, I was dumbfounded at the delicate color, the detail, the beauty of the recording. Then, he did the same three tracks again and used a Presonus Eureka preamp strip. Again, the recording was stunning. Magical, delicate, Different than the RNP, but not better or worse. The rnp had a type of color while the Eureka had intimate detail and a 3d quality. Both sent chills down my spine, literally, goose bumps. I swear, I could not stop listening to the tracks made with these two preamps. They sounded like I had bought a CD of the song at a store, that's how good. Well, then he hooked up my VM pro and did the same three tracks again, and I was heart broken. My VM pro didn't even come close to the RNP and Eureka. NOT EVEN CLOSE. The poorer quality was instantly heard. My friend thought that it could be that he wasn't used to the compressor settings on the VM, so he recorded the 3 tracks twice more, each time playing with the controls, but nothing changed. It wasn't the eq or the compression, the damn VM pro just sounded no where near as good as the RNP and Eureka. He tried to console me and said I would probably make many bad decisions on my road to recording. I feel so po'ed at Focusrite. When they made this product, didn't they sit down and compare it to other units in the same price range? No way they compared it to the RNP and Eureka cause they would have been too ashamed to release the thing had they done that. I feel like I wasted my money and I got a sound not much better than my hundred dollar M-audio DMP3. The RNP and Eureka were simply in another world. What kills me is that I could have got a used RNP for 450 or so, I saw used Eureka for around $350-400 My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Focusrite, why even put these out on the market without comparing the quality of sound to the competition and making sure you can compete? had you compared these units you would have said to yourself "hmm, our unit sucks in comparison to theirs, lets get it right before we release this product." Sorry for ranting, but I feel I wasted hundreds of bucks and could have gotten something of better quality for the money. Maybe its faulty. Gareth. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
If you bypass all the signal processing, does it sound any closer to
the RNP? -Nick |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
Jeff wrote:
Hi Rec audio folks. Man oh man, I feel like the folks at Focusrite screwed me. Actually you screwed yourself in the ear by not using either your ears or your reading skills prior to purchasing the unit. You bought a "Voice-optimised Channel Strip" offering all kinds of crap that is not included in the price of an RNP. Then you start comparing peanuts to persimmons and feel like you got cheated. Why would you want a "Voice-optimised Channel Strip" for pristine recording of acoustic guitars? With a little studying ahead of the purchase you would have known this was not the tool for your job. None of this is Focusrite's problem, and it is disingenuous of you to suggest it is. Sell it and move on. Learn something. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
"Jeff" wrote in message
... My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Focusrite, why even put these out on the market without comparing the quality of sound to the competition and making sure you can compete? had you compared these units you would have said to yourself "hmm, our unit sucks in comparison to theirs, lets get it right before we release this product." Sorry for ranting, but I feel I wasted hundreds of bucks and could have gotten something of better quality for the money. When I reviewed the VoiceMaster, I found the preamp section to be distinctly substandard. I did some measurements, and the distortion was higher than spec. It turned out that the unit was defective; probably a leaky capacitor mis-biasing a transistor. You may be having the same problem; get somebody to run some distortion tests, or send it to Focusrite for a checkout. It may be that they got a whole shipment of bum capacitors. Peace, Paul |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
Jeff wrote:
My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Because the operating bias of a piece of equipment has nothing whatsoever to do with how it sounds. When manufacturers advertise stuff like "Class A" it's because they aren't taking you seriously. Focusrite, why even put these out on the market without comparing the quality of sound to the competition and making sure you can compete? had you compared these units you would have said to yourself "hmm, our unit sucks in comparison to theirs, lets get it right before we release this product." But they CAN compete. They are in business to make money and to sell products, not for any other reason. Putting money into marketing is almost always more profitable than putting it into product development. Sorry for ranting, but I feel I wasted hundreds of bucks and could have gotten something of better quality for the money. And this, in short, is why you should never, ever buy anything without auditioning it yourself first. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:20:42 +0100, John Williamson
wrote: Jeff wrote: Hi Rec audio folks. Man oh man, I feel like the folks at Focusrite screwed me. I purchased a Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro on Ebay. I had been searching for a channel strip. I had heard good things about this unit. New or used? If used, who certified it as being in "as new" condition, the seller or an independent engineer? Then consider *why* the seller's disposing of it. In either case, have you contacted the seller asking for an explanantion of the poor quality, & if they'll accept a return? Have you spoken to Focusrite or their agents about getting the unit checked for faults? The rest of your post points out the folly of buying gear without auditioning it first, IMHO. Caveat Emptor...... I buy gear all the time, but always *after* I've checked it out myself. If I buy something blind, then I accept it might not be as good as the vendor claims, & pay accordingly. Now & again, I get lucky & it's better than I expected. More often, it joins the pile in the corner...... Hi. Thanks for the replies. Just got off the phone with my friend and read him what I said in this post. He said I am overreacting and that the VM was not that much below the other two as I have gotten in my mind. The VM is like new. You could tell in the recordings it was doing what it's supposed to do, I guess my friend is right and I am making a huge difference when there is not a bunch of difference. Probably just upset that I didn't get one of the other two units and I am over blowing the differences out of frustration. My friend said I could get fine results with this pre. Maybe not exactly as good as the other two but not the huge difference I have talked myself in to. I believe he tried only using the preamp in one of the test, and it still didn't sound as 3d as the other two. I am having buyers remorse I guess and blowing the difference out of proportion. My friend told me to come and try his preamps out first before I put money out, and now I see that I should have. I would have chosen one of the others instead of this. He said the VM will always useable for some things and that it's no big deal to add another strip down the line. That conversation made me feel better. He also had a Manley and a Great River, and he told me I would have been even more upset had I heard those. I can't afford those anyway. Glad I didn't hear them or I might be selling my car today. Thanks much |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... Jeff wrote: My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Because the operating bias of a piece of equipment has nothing whatsoever to do with how it sounds. When manufacturers advertise stuff like "Class A" it's because they aren't taking you seriously. Rather surprisingly, in this particular case advertising the thing as "Class A" actually does mean something. When reviewing the VoiceMaster (and its instrument-oriented sibling) I noticed that the high-level sections were unusually transparent; when they weren't actually doing something (like filtering, compressing, etc.) it was extremely hard to tell that they were there at all; they were essentially passing a straight-wire bypass test once I got levels matched exactly. That hasn't been my experience with other gear that has similar chips (these were unity-gain-compensated 5534s, the approximate equivalent of 5532s); usually there's a hint of coloration audible even when the levels are matched. I queried Focusrite, and it turns out they're biasing the outputs of the 5534s so they're always operating in Class A. I've used that trick myself in designs. The opamps measure better (fewer high-order harmonics in HD tests) and sound better, or rather sound less. By gum, the hype was right for a change. Peace, Paul |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
"Jeff" wrote in message
news Hi. Thanks for the replies. Just got off the phone with my friend and read him what I said in this post. He said I am overreacting and that the VM was not that much below the other two as I have gotten in my mind. The VM is like new. You could tell in the recordings it was doing what it's supposed to do, I guess my friend is right and I am making a huge difference when there is not a bunch of difference. Probably just upset that I didn't get one of the other two units and I am over blowing the differences out of frustration. My friend said I could get fine results with this pre. Maybe not exactly as good as the other two but not the huge difference I have talked myself in to. I believe he tried only using the preamp in one of the test, and it still didn't sound as 3d as the other two. I am having buyers remorse I guess and blowing the difference out of proportion. My friend told me to come and try his preamps out first before I put money out, and now I see that I should have. I would have chosen one of the others instead of this. He said the VM will always useable for some things and that it's no big deal to add another strip down the line. That conversation made me feel better. He also had a Manley and a Great River, and he told me I would have been even more upset had I heard those. I can't afford those anyway. Glad I didn't hear them or I might be selling my car today. If I may repeat myself: send the thing to Focusrite for a checkout. The fact that it's "like new" doesn't mean it's working probably; the one I had was bad after only ten hours or so of use. One of the unfortunate realities of manufacturing is that you can get a bunch of bad components, put them into a run of product, and ship it all out before you find out (from your customers) that something was wrong. To avoid it you'd have to burn in each and every unit before shipping, for say 48 hours, then test for increased distortion. That would jack the price up way beyond reasonable. So the manufacturers, unless they're super-high-end, don't do it. They wait to hear of problems from the field. (Incidentally, next time somebody starts ranting about how big a ripoff high-priced components are, remember this. The high-priced ones are much more likely to be burned-in-and-checked than cheap gear. You pay for it.) Please, send it in. You may get back a much-better-sounding strip. And if it comes back "no problem found", just e-bay it. Peace, Paul |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
So, just sell it again en get one of the other things you wanted?
Bm (not very impressed with the quality of recent Focusrite gear, btw) |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
Jeff wrote:
Hi Rec audio folks. Man oh man, I feel like the folks at Focusrite screwed me. I purchased a Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro on Ebay. I had been searching for a channel strip. I had heard good things about this unit. I got it and it seemed ok, but still, the sounds were not what I had been expecting. I have a friend who is much more experienced at recording. He lives fifty miles away and I don't get up there much. I realize now I should have took him up on his offer to come check some stuff out before I spent my money. I told him that I was not satisfied with the VM Pro and he said come up and we would test it out and do some comparisons to his pres. I get there and we setup a test with his Seagull acoustic guitar (awesome sound). He has a nice room and a big Mackie board. Well, he says we will compare my VM pro with a couple pres in the same price range that he has. First we recorded the song amazing grace with the seagull. He puts two guitar tracks, far left and far right and he does a vocal down the center. The first unit he used was an FMR RNP in front of an RNC compressor. When I heard the three tracks over his studio monitors and then his studio headphones, I was dumbfounded at the delicate color, the detail, the beauty of the recording. Then, he did the same three tracks again and used a Presonus Eureka preamp strip. Again, the recording was stunning. Magical, delicate, Different than the RNP, but not better or worse. The rnp had a type of color while the Eureka had intimate detail and a 3d quality. Both sent chills down my spine, literally, goose bumps. I swear, I could not stop listening to the tracks made with these two preamps. They sounded like I had bought a CD of the song at a store, that's how good. Well, then he hooked up my VM pro and did the same three tracks again, and I was heart broken. My VM pro didn't even come close to the RNP and Eureka. NOT EVEN CLOSE. The poorer quality was instantly heard. My friend thought that it could be that he wasn't used to the compressor settings on the VM, so he recorded the 3 tracks twice more, each time playing with the controls, but nothing changed. It wasn't the eq or the compression, the damn VM pro just sounded no where near as good as the RNP and Eureka. He tried to console me and said I would probably make many bad decisions on my road to recording. I feel so po'ed at Focusrite. When they made this product, didn't they sit down and compare it to other units in the same price range? No way they compared it to the RNP and Eureka cause they would have been too ashamed to release the thing had they done that. I feel like I wasted my money and I got a sound not much better than my hundred dollar M-audio DMP3. The RNP and Eureka were simply in another world. What kills me is that I could have got a used RNP for 450 or so, I saw used Eureka for around $350-400 My unit is supposed to be class A, just like the Eureka unit, so why doesn't mine sound as good as his? Nothing was different when we recorded the three. he sat in the same chair, same mic Tl103 and position, same everything. The rnp and Eureka blew my unit out. Focusrite, why even put these out on the market without comparing the quality of sound to the competition and making sure you can compete? had you compared these units you would have said to yourself "hmm, our unit sucks in comparison to theirs, lets get it right before we release this product." Sorry for ranting, but I feel I wasted hundreds of bucks and could have gotten something of better quality for the money. Jeff, pardon the bluntness of my reply, but you've shot yourself in the foot over this one for not doing your research thoroughly enough. So quit yer moaning... The Voicemaster Pro is at the bottom of Focusrite's product range (along with the Octopre). You can tell this because you find the word "Pro" in the name... almost anything with "pro" in the name isn't. Focusrite decided to produce a range of budget products to compete in the rapidly growing home studio market. Consequently, cheap components have been used and you got what you paid for. Now if you want a really good channel strip, put this one down to experience, sell the Voicemaster Pro, get a Fosucrite ISA 430. This is the top channel strip in the Focusrite range. I had one on hire for a month a while back and I couldn't find anything I didn't like about it. Bottom line, you get what you pay for... Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Rant at Focusrite (comparison)
In article ,
Chris Whealy wrote: You can tell this because you find the word "Pro" in the name... almost anything with "pro" in the name isn't. Excellent advice. btw I think Digidesign owns Focusrite now. Many folks don't like anything they've cooked up post Rupert, including the redone 110. David Correia www.Celebrationsound.com |
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