Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

NO time difference is acceptable. The human ear identifies every ms.
I suppose that's bad news for you.
Possible solution: manually insert a small peak (eg. a clap) an try to sync
the channels accurately (very few samples).

Good luck,
Olaf

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

NO time difference is acceptable. The human ear identifies every ms.
I suppose that's bad news for you.
Possible solution: manually insert a small peak (eg. a clap) an try to sync
the channels accurately (very few samples).

Good luck,
Olaf

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

NO time difference is acceptable. The human ear identifies every ms.
I suppose that's bad news for you.
Possible solution: manually insert a small peak (eg. a clap) an try to sync
the channels accurately (very few samples).

Good luck,
Olaf

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

NO time difference is acceptable. The human ear identifies every ms.
I suppose that's bad news for you.
Possible solution: manually insert a small peak (eg. a clap) an try to sync
the channels accurately (very few samples).

Good luck,
Olaf

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

I am going to be decoding to channels independently but want to
synchronies the two channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is
maintained.

Depends on whether or not there is a derived center channel. If there is,
there can be significant low-pass filtering due to the time delay.

There will always be some difference in the time due to
my system but I will be able to carry out some level of
synchronization between the two channels

It is not uncommon for shared DACs to be used, resulting in channels that
are 11 uSec apart.

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

I am going to be decoding to channels independently but want to
synchronies the two channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is
maintained.

Depends on whether or not there is a derived center channel. If there is,
there can be significant low-pass filtering due to the time delay.

There will always be some difference in the time due to
my system but I will be able to carry out some level of
synchronization between the two channels

It is not uncommon for shared DACs to be used, resulting in channels that
are 11 uSec apart.

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

I am going to be decoding to channels independently but want to
synchronies the two channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is
maintained.

Depends on whether or not there is a derived center channel. If there is,
there can be significant low-pass filtering due to the time delay.

There will always be some difference in the time due to
my system but I will be able to carry out some level of
synchronization between the two channels

It is not uncommon for shared DACs to be used, resulting in channels that
are 11 uSec apart.

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

I am going to be decoding to channels independently but want to
synchronies the two channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is
maintained.

Depends on whether or not there is a derived center channel. If there is,
there can be significant low-pass filtering due to the time delay.

There will always be some difference in the time due to
my system but I will be able to carry out some level of
synchronization between the two channels

It is not uncommon for shared DACs to be used, resulting in channels that
are 11 uSec apart.

Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

0 ms is ideal. However back in reality, if you sit more towards one
side of a pair of stereo speakers, you will naturally introduce a delay
because you are not in the *exact* centre.

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter the position
of stereo centre. More than this, and you'll start to encounter the
psychoacoustic effects of delays that make the sound source appear wider.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

0 ms is ideal. However back in reality, if you sit more towards one
side of a pair of stereo speakers, you will naturally introduce a delay
because you are not in the *exact* centre.

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter the position
of stereo centre. More than this, and you'll start to encounter the
psychoacoustic effects of delays that make the sound source appear wider.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

0 ms is ideal. However back in reality, if you sit more towards one
side of a pair of stereo speakers, you will naturally introduce a delay
because you are not in the *exact* centre.

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter the position
of stereo centre. More than this, and you'll start to encounter the
psychoacoustic effects of delays that make the sound source appear wider.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

0 ms is ideal. However back in reality, if you sit more towards one
side of a pair of stereo speakers, you will naturally introduce a delay
because you are not in the *exact* centre.

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter the position
of stereo centre. More than this, and you'll start to encounter the
psychoacoustic effects of delays that make the sound source appear wider.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

If the delay is the same for both channels, the listener will not hear the
difference. The delay between the two channels should be zero. The human
ear will pick it out as a phase error. This is part of the big battle in
amplifier and speaker design to have the best possible phase. If there is
more than about a 10 degree phase error or delay between the left and right,
most people who are used to listening to music will be able to pick this
out.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

If the delay is the same for both channels, the listener will not hear the
difference. The delay between the two channels should be zero. The human
ear will pick it out as a phase error. This is part of the big battle in
amplifier and speaker design to have the best possible phase. If there is
more than about a 10 degree phase error or delay between the left and right,
most people who are used to listening to music will be able to pick this
out.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

If the delay is the same for both channels, the listener will not hear the
difference. The delay between the two channels should be zero. The human
ear will pick it out as a phase error. This is part of the big battle in
amplifier and speaker design to have the best possible phase. If there is
more than about a 10 degree phase error or delay between the left and right,
most people who are used to listening to music will be able to pick this
out.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

If the delay is the same for both channels, the listener will not hear the
difference. The delay between the two channels should be zero. The human
ear will pick it out as a phase error. This is part of the big battle in
amplifier and speaker design to have the best possible phase. If there is
more than about a 10 degree phase error or delay between the left and right,
most people who are used to listening to music will be able to pick this
out.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

Hi All,

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I guess from the responses that
we need to try and get this values as low as possible. I guess this give a
bit of a challenge then.

Thanks
Fraser

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going
to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able
to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

Hi All,

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I guess from the responses that
we need to try and get this values as low as possible. I guess this give a
bit of a challenge then.

Thanks
Fraser

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going
to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able
to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

Hi All,

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I guess from the responses that
we need to try and get this values as low as possible. I guess this give a
bit of a challenge then.

Thanks
Fraser

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going
to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able
to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

Hi All,

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I guess from the responses that
we need to try and get this values as low as possible. I guess this give a
bit of a challenge then.

Thanks
Fraser

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going
to
be decoding to channels independantly but want to synchronise the two
channels to ensure that the Stereo sound stage is maintained. There will
always be some difference in the time due to my system but I will be able
to
carry out some level of synchronisation between the two channels

Thanks
Fraser

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:57:32 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

---
If the distance between the speakers is 10 feet and you're centered
between, and 10 feet away from them, at about 1 foot per millisecond
it'll take the sound 11.18ms to get from the speakers to your ears.
However, there won't be any difference between the times the sound from
them arrives at your ears and the stereo image will be perfect. But, if
you move directly in front of, and stay 10 feet away from, one of the
speakers it'll take 10ms for the sound from that speaker to get to you
and about 14 milliseconds before the sound from the other speaker does.
So, for about a 4ms delay, the stereo image will be _seriously_
degraded, I think.

--
John Fields

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:57:32 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

---
If the distance between the speakers is 10 feet and you're centered
between, and 10 feet away from them, at about 1 foot per millisecond
it'll take the sound 11.18ms to get from the speakers to your ears.
However, there won't be any difference between the times the sound from
them arrives at your ears and the stereo image will be perfect. But, if
you move directly in front of, and stay 10 feet away from, one of the
speakers it'll take 10ms for the sound from that speaker to get to you
and about 14 milliseconds before the sound from the other speaker does.
So, for about a 4ms delay, the stereo image will be _seriously_
degraded, I think.

--
John Fields

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:57:32 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

---
If the distance between the speakers is 10 feet and you're centered
between, and 10 feet away from them, at about 1 foot per millisecond
it'll take the sound 11.18ms to get from the speakers to your ears.
However, there won't be any difference between the times the sound from
them arrives at your ears and the stereo image will be perfect. But, if
you move directly in front of, and stay 10 feet away from, one of the
speakers it'll take 10ms for the sound from that speaker to get to you
and about 14 milliseconds before the sound from the other speaker does.
So, for about a 4ms delay, the stereo image will be _seriously_
degraded, I think.

--
John Fields

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:57:32 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Fraser Winters" wrote in message


Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintain the stereo effect.

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds. After all, you can enjoy
still stereo if you are not perfectly centered between the speakers.

---
If the distance between the speakers is 10 feet and you're centered
between, and 10 feet away from them, at about 1 foot per millisecond
it'll take the sound 11.18ms to get from the speakers to your ears.
However, there won't be any difference between the times the sound from
them arrives at your ears and the stereo image will be perfect. But, if
you move directly in front of, and stay 10 feet away from, one of the
speakers it'll take 10ms for the sound from that speaker to get to you
and about 14 milliseconds before the sound from the other speaker does.
So, for about a 4ms delay, the stereo image will be _seriously_
degraded, I think.

--
John Fields

Fraser Winters wrote:

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between
the two signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

A quarter wavelength's accuracy at 20 kHz is likely to be a reasonable
assurance of no ill effects.

Fraser


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Fraser Winters wrote:

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between
the two signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

A quarter wavelength's accuracy at 20 kHz is likely to be a reasonable
assurance of no ill effects.

Fraser


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Fraser Winters wrote:

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between
the two signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

A quarter wavelength's accuracy at 20 kHz is likely to be a reasonable
assurance of no ill effects.

Fraser


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Fraser Winters wrote:

Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between
the two signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect.

A quarter wavelength's accuracy at 20 kHz is likely to be a reasonable
assurance of no ill effects.

Fraser


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Arny Krueger wrote:

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds.

No. A few milliseconds is a stereo image manipulation tool that equals
moving one of the mics in a stereo pair.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Arny Krueger wrote:

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds.

No. A few milliseconds is a stereo image manipulation tool that equals
moving one of the mics in a stereo pair.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Arny Krueger wrote:

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds.

No. A few milliseconds is a stereo image manipulation tool that equals
moving one of the mics in a stereo pair.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Arny Krueger wrote:

You can probably get away with a few milliseconds.

No. A few milliseconds is a stereo image manipulation tool that equals
moving one of the mics in a stereo pair.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter
the position of stereo centre.

In a way that no balance control that works on level alone can fix.

Chris


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter
the position of stereo centre.

In a way that no balance control that works on level alone can fix.

Chris


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter
the position of stereo centre.

In a way that no balance control that works on level alone can fix.

Chris


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

A millesecond or two delay will do little more than alter
the position of stereo centre.

In a way that no balance control that works on level alone can fix.

Chris


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:14 -0000, Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to

Keep your signal and speakers cables under a few miles in length
and you won't have any problems.

Do the ****ing math. The speed of light is 186,282 miles per second.
Figure out how long a cable has to be in order to provide the same delay
as the speed of sound in air ( about 760 miles per hour) of a speaker
say 2" closer to you than the other.

2" / 12/5280 = 3.157*10^-5 / 760mph = 4.153e-08 hrs = 0.149ms

0.149ms * C = 27.8mi.


Answer: keep your speaker and signal cables under 25 miles in length
if you want to keep the effect less than one speaker being 2" closer to
you than the other.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:14 -0000, Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to

Keep your signal and speakers cables under a few miles in length
and you won't have any problems.

Do the ****ing math. The speed of light is 186,282 miles per second.
Figure out how long a cable has to be in order to provide the same delay
as the speed of sound in air ( about 760 miles per hour) of a speaker
say 2" closer to you than the other.

2" / 12/5280 = 3.157*10^-5 / 760mph = 4.153e-08 hrs = 0.149ms

0.149ms * C = 27.8mi.


Answer: keep your speaker and signal cables under 25 miles in length
if you want to keep the effect less than one speaker being 2" closer to
you than the other.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:14 -0000, Fraser Winters wrote:
Does anyone know what an acceptable time difference is between the two
signals to stereo speakers to still maintin the stereo effect. I am going to

Keep your signal and speakers cables under a few miles in length
and you won't have any problems.

Do the ****ing math. The speed of light is 186,282 miles per second.
Figure out how long a cable has to be in order to provide the same delay
as the speed of sound in air ( about 760 miles per hour) of a speaker
say 2" closer to you than the other.

2" / 12/5280 = 3.157*10^-5 / 760mph = 4.153e-08 hrs = 0.149ms

0.149ms * C = 27.8mi.


Answer: keep your speaker and signal cables under 25 miles in length
if you want to keep the effect less than one speaker being 2" closer to
you than the other.