Below is my reply to a post by Andre Jute, using a false name,
but signed by Andre Jute......

Fritz Wuehler wrote:

Perhaps Wuehler means '******', in German.......

Turners Talent for Theft

This is the third time that Patrick Turner of Turner Audio in Canberra has demanded the proprietary information of other transformer winders from me with menaces.

So where were the menaces?
Am I menacing you, to ask such a question?
If I ask you questions, is that against some law?
There is no factual basis for your absurd allegation.
I suggest your response is just another Andre Jute hissy fit.
Let's face it Andre, you can't provide rock solid evidence that
Magnequest transformers are not up to specs they quote.
I don't expect you to, anymore, ppl never get answers to awkward questions from
Andre Jute.

And as you well know, I have told everyone that if there is any doubt about
Magnequest, or any other maker, then the doubt could only be settled when they buy
one, and thoroughly test the item.
And in regard for the now discontinued Magnequest 300B amp tranny which led to all this argie bargie you started, you may recall I recently provided figures
for what I considered to be a reasonable amount of primary inductance
in a couple of threads, and complete with calculations.
You never disputed a word I said on that.
Its up to any home constructors to
assess whether Magnequest come up to fulfil expectations, not me.
How much useful info did you tender towards the subject?
SFA, I think, just a lot of ****e about how awful I was.

Turner is a wannabe winder who hasnt sold a transformer in four years.

True; my transformers are sold with completed amplifiers built around them.
I don't sell many trannies because Hammond are so much cheaper
and they make hundreds at a time, but no amps.

He became a winder, by his own account, when he couldnt afford to put proper hi-fi transformers into his amplifiers (which also have uncertain sales), so he copied the designs of established winders (1).

I know what proper transformers are.
I have no need to buy what I can make for myself, and my customers.
But if anyone wants me to use specific transformers for their custom build
product, they are welcome, and they will pay a lot more,
if their selection is one of the many transformers which cost a shirtload more than mine.

When we ask you about transformers, we get no answers, just complaints.
I wind better trannies than most makers you would place high on your list of favourites.
You don't have a monopoly on "correct thinking".


Nothing in my designs are copied. I dunno where you get that info from.
Dreamed it up? Calling me a plagerist is derogatory, and not nice Andre.
It makes it hard to be your friend, and easy for me and everyone else to regard you as a
poisenous human being.
Nearly everyone else agrees with me.


I use iron, nice stuff, the GOSS I use, and wire, etc, just like all the others do,
but that don't mean I copy all those other makers arrangements of turns and interleavings.
Why would I?
The designs at my website are my own, free for anyone to try.
They have been donated to the public at large for 2 years.
Nobody has claimed that I stole their ideas.
The design methods have not been challenged,
but they are based on what is mentioned in RDH4, and other books.

And in my amps I use even better trannies than the basic types at the website.
People who have wound my basic designs find them to be superlative.


Now he runs around on the net pretending to be a magnetics expert and denigrating the products he once copied.

But I have not denigrated other makers products.
I raise my hat to the other makers.
But you got stuck into Magnequest, and look at the trouble that got you into.
Don't accuse me of doing what you once did.
Magnequest didn't like your critique 6 years ago, and wouldn't like it now.
I don't know if you or Magnequest were right, and I wasn't part of the scene in 1997,
I didn't learn to use a PC until 2000.
If you still want to get others on the news groups to believe you were right, and Magnequest were
wrong, then you have to lay out the facts, and perhaps Magnequest
will take a dim view again.

And don't continue to liken me and the ppl I do get on OK with on the Web
as being like the "Magnequest scum".
You simply have no basis on which to rest any attack.

What I have said is that anyone with patience, discipline, and widely available knowledge
can build themself any transformer which will match the best available
around the world. I have achieved that.

How many trannies have you wound?
What experience do you have?

I don't pretend to be a magnetics expert.
I do wind excellent transformers.
Are you an expert? from what you have said recently, the world
would say you know SFA about how to wind any tranny, but a heck of a lot about
complaining.


I simply cannot be a party to a wannabe winder denigrating his betters, and stealing their designs.

I never have stolen anything.
How could I? they all keep their designs secret, and I have never purchased
any of them, so how could I know what's inside them?
I have never broken open any of anyonme elses designs,
except a defunct 1960 Leak tranny, about whose quality I should
refrain myself from discussing. Quad transfomers from Quad II amps
do have quality which is easily exceeded.
I have only ever seen a Tango Tranny from 20 feet away in an amp.
I don't need to view the secret info. I know it all.
You perpetuate a myth.

I refused in the past and I refuse now to discuss with this wannabe winder Patrick Turner the products of any other winder.

Nobody is now wanting to discuss the Magnequest wars you had 6 years ago,
including myself.
But you keep harranging me about being a wannabe tranny winder,
and wanna keep up trying to describe me in filthy terminology,
likening me to the "Magnequest Scum"
so its only fair I tell the folks at aus.hi-fi what I know about you, and your history,
and at aus.hi-fi, they were indeed puzzled by who you are,
and basically why you are just another angry little ant looking for a bum to bite,
when you suddenly started posting filth there in the last few days.
They'd never heard of you,
and now that they have, its going to be like pushing sand uphill with your snout
to make them understand and sympathise with your pet concerns.
I keep a very low profile at aus.hi-fi, they don't much like tubes, generally.
The open jaws of the lions await you.

Even the wretched Michael LaFevre of Magnequest is entitled to be protected against the depradations of Patrick Turner.

I am sure Mike LeFevre would be delighted about what I have said about Magnequest,
and to counter your attacks of anything he makes.
I have never condemned his products like you have.
I do know how to wind a decent tranny, and I survive serenly without
copying anyone, or worrying too much about what other makers might do,
or defaming their legitimate businesses or CEO personas.


What the rest of Turners disturbingly illogical tirade has to do with aus.hi-fi or RAT I really dont know.

Its not an illogical tirade. Its merely some pointing out to those at aus.hi-fi
that you exist as Andre Jute, and you have a hate campaign going against me,
all for unjust reasons. Maybe a more useful place to conduct
a campaign against me would be on the dark side of the moon.
Do whatcha like up there.

His facts are so bizarrely at odds with history that I dont even know how to begin straightening them out, nor see any necessity.

Well you have ample opportunity to set the record straight.
But I suggest all you will achieve is to make a fool of yourself,
and bore everyone to tears, because it seems unlikely the story will be
completely truthful, factual, and on one easy page for all to read.

They nearly all won't listen.
They nearly all don't give a stuff about wars you had 6 years ago.
They'll all believe I know what I am talking about.

The publicity I get won't do me any harm; on the contrary,
people will seek me out further, so perhaps your fights will do my sales figures some good!

If Michael LaFevre, who is equally libeled by this ignorant man Turner, wants to come defend his reputation against the unfounded charges Turner hurls against him, Ill back him up where it is warranted.

In my recent postings about Magnequest, I have always referred to them respectfully,
and as legitimate business folks.
After asking you for evidence that they produce crummy product,
after basing your life around attacking them, I still see no evidence,
easily accessible on public forums, complete with adequately described testing methods,
and none anywhere else.

If anything, I have acted in defense of Magnequest.
There have been no charges hurled anywhere, except by yourself,
towards "The Magnequest Scum", as you so often have referred to them.

And any assertion that Magnequest's CEO, Mike LeFevre would come to your
aid in some action against me is utterly looney.
Mike would prefer to see you dead.

Have a good day,
don't drop that tranny on your toe,
(and I must refrain from saying where to place it.)

Think of the power of good you'd do Andre, if you devoted your
energies positively, instead of negatively!
Why don't you ask yourself to post all postings
with nothing negative in them, from now on.

Patrick Turner.



Andre Jute

(1) This is Turners confession, in his own words:
(start quote from Patrick Turner, Turner Audio, Canberra)
I couldnt afford to place Magnequest, Tango, Tamura, Bertalucci, Sowter, Plitron or any other well known top line tranny in my amps and sell for a profit.

Their best products are easily matched by anyone determined. . .
(end quote from Patrick Turner)

Patrick Turner )
Andre Jute is a fellow who had a large profile on the Net
some years ago, but had an enormous flame war at Rec.audio.tubes with
a maker of tube amp transformers, Magnequest.
It appears Magnequest took a dim view of the way Andre described their
products, and effectively forced Andre to remove his website and
quite a ****e fight ensued, and Andre claimed his life was ruined.

Andre is a little short fused, and remains extremely bitter about the
big fight he had, since he didnt do too well out of it.

For confabulous reasons, and those of someone disgruntled,
he now is conducting a hate campaign against
me at rec.audio tubes, and he posts there and now here under
a variety of anonymous identities, to somehow try and demoralise
and embarrass me, and force me off the Web.

I dont have much of a profile here, so he will only achieve
the status of a fool if he persists.

I entered discussions at rec.audio tubes about 3 years ago,
well after the "magnequest wars" were raging, and I had nothing to do
with the
fights between Jute, and the "Magnequest Scum, as he has so often
referred
to them as.
In fact, when I entered the discussions, I started folks talking about
output trannies again,
since they had all become timid on the subject, but it is an essential
part of tube amps,
and I believe in open and transparent discussions.
Such discussions can lead to much angst from a brandname maker if the
technical attributes quoted by the maker can be shown to be quite false,

and that the maker is selling the public short.
Andre Jute may have been correct about Magnequests trannies, but there
are so many opinions, its hard to know who is really correct.

I have asked him recently to post the real truth about Magnequest,
as he knows it, but then became enraged that I was so insensitive,
had poor manners, and started a hate campaign.
Unfortunately for him, nobody much is interested in the old battles of 5
years ago
its dead boring, and he isnt able to support his allegations about
Magnequest other than by reffering ppl to the archives,
and a long and tortuous search.

Anyone buying Magnequest trannies are taking a risk,
as they would if they were buying from many other maker,
and before buying, just take care you know about what you need,
and whether the tansformer will really suit the purpose.
For this you need some expertise, so you could measure a tranny you
bought,
to see if it came up the specs a maker claimed.
If it doesnt, send it back and claim a refund.

Some makers of audio products know the average enthusiast
knows very little about whats inside that black box.
I cant help anyone find out, but I can say what is required for good
performance if one is choosing
a tranny specs for say an SET amp.

I dont have access to any products from Magnequest
or any other custom winder, and I will not commit myself
to any one opinion, no matter what it is, either that of a whistle
blower,
who Jute fancies himself, or that of the maker.

As you know, I dont like people defaming myself, or anyone else,
and if they do, then they have to be 100 accurate with
unquestionable evidence easily accessable to support their views.

For those who wish to track down details of the reasons how Andre
has finished up so far they may have to dig deep into group posting
archives.

I also stand up to ppl like Andre if they post what I consider to be
erroneous views about
tube craft, at which I am well qualified, because all the items at my
web pages
were all designed and hand crafted myself.

Apart from one or two friends hes got at rec.audio tubes,
many in the group have filtered out all his posts, because they
are so often filled with filth, false accusations, lies, etc,
and if there is any rational, they refuse to value it because of the
downside
of having to read so much vitriol at the same time. Basically,
most folks think he is a pita, and probably half the
group at rec.audio tubes have placed filters on their browsers to
prevent posts from Jute under several identies from appearing in their
mail listings, along with all those from Phil Allison,
who is the other trouble maker with a foul mouth,
and who is rarely taken seriously.

I would like to warn everyone here at aus.hi-fi, that
any attempt to engage this dude in any conversation could lead to a
tortuous tale
of tedious intercourse, where it may be difficult to enjoy any
furthering
of ones knowledge of hi-fi, unless it happens to be the day
when he seems calm and fully rational, and harmlessly chatty.

But believe you me, to every sensible post recently at rec.audio tubes,
he posts several like the
Riddle No 9 posting, and a few which are far worse, which is the action
of a troll.

Patrick Turner.

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
Below is my reply to a post by Andre Jute, using a false name,
but signed by Andre Jute......
snip.......all of it!

You can't have much to do Pat if you can afford to spend an hour or more
typing a two page reply to a non-entity using an anonymous remailer.
Even Joe the goose knows that people who use such mechanisms have even less
credibility than a used car salesman, and are worthy of no more than a two
line reply, using four letter words, at best.

ruff

ruff wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
Below is my reply to a post by Andre Jute, using a false name,
but signed by Andre Jute......
snip.......all of it!

You can't have much to do Pat if you can afford to spend an hour or more
typing a two page reply to a non-entity using an anonymous remailer.
Even Joe the goose knows that people who use such mechanisms have even less
credibility than a used car salesman, and are worthy of no more than a two
line reply, using four letter words, at best.

ruff

After awhile, they run out of things to hit me with.

I DO have things to do here.
I just don't watch TV, go to a gym, or the pub or club.
Plenty of time for a few hours on the web,
where a small amount of time is spent countering
the BS.

Patrick Turner.

"ruff"

You can't have much to do Pat if you can afford to spend an hour or more
typing a two page reply to a non-entity using an anonymous remailer.


** But that is not the case.


Andre Jute is very much a real person - a competent, published technical
author in fact (like me).

He signs every post (I have ever seen) with his real name, he only uses
pseudonyms in the headings to defeat the users of kill files - since Pat
tells all his arse lickers to killfile his critics.

Andre employs a remailer nowadays simply to avoid malicious complaints to
his normal ISP.

Andre has been through the mil before.

Turner is a real piece of scum.




........... Phil

Patrick Turner wrote:

You can't have much to do Pat if you can afford to spend an hour or more
typing a two page reply to a non-entity using an anonymous remailer.
Even Joe the goose knows that people who use such mechanisms have even less
credibility than a used car salesman, and are worthy of no more than a two
line reply, using four letter words, at best.

ruff


After awhile, they run out of things to hit me with.

I DO have things to do here.
I just don't watch TV, go to a gym, or the pub or club.
Plenty of time for a few hours on the web,
where a small amount of time is spent countering
the BS.

Patrick Turner.



And this is how you REALLY want to spend your relaxation time?

Keep hurling those wads of paper at that fire Patrick. Surely
they will put it out sooner or later. Perhaps if you throw more
of them at the fire it will go out even more quickly?

-Chuck

Chuck Harris wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

You can't have much to do Pat if you can afford to spend an hour or more
typing a two page reply to a non-entity using an anonymous remailer.
Even Joe the goose knows that people who use such mechanisms have even less
credibility than a used car salesman, and are worthy of no more than a two
line reply, using four letter words, at best.

ruff


After awhile, they run out of things to hit me with.

I DO have things to do here.
I just don't watch TV, go to a gym, or the pub or club.
Plenty of time for a few hours on the web,
where a small amount of time is spent countering
the BS.

Patrick Turner.



And this is how you REALLY want to spend your relaxation time?

Keep hurling those wads of paper at that fire Patrick. Surely
they will put it out sooner or later. Perhaps if you throw more
of them at the fire it will go out even more quickly?

-Chuck

Somebody said chaos rules when good men stand by idly.

Sooner or later, ppl run out of amo.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner wrote:

And this is how you REALLY want to spend your relaxation time?

Keep hurling those wads of paper at that fire Patrick. Surely
they will put it out sooner or later. Perhaps if you throw more
of them at the fire it will go out even more quickly?

-Chuck


Somebody said chaos rules when good men stand by idly.

It sure does, but that statement was meant for a physical world where
there were ways of physically punishing the chaos doers into stopping.

Here we have a psychopath that sees your responses as proof that
his efforts are working. The harsher your words, the more proof
that you are getting flustered, and he is getting to you.

Sooner or later, ppl run out of amo.

As will you. Hopefully, before that happens you will discover that
you are using the wrong kind of ammo to attack an egotistical
psychopath.


-Chuck

Patrick Turner.

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:

And this is how you REALLY want to spend your relaxation time?

Keep hurling those wads of paper at that fire Patrick. Surely
they will put it out sooner or later. Perhaps if you throw more
of them at the fire it will go out even more quickly?

-Chuck


Somebody said chaos rules when good men stand by idly.

It sure does, but that statement was meant for a physical world where
there were ways of physically punishing the chaos doers into stopping.

Here we have a psychopath that sees your responses as proof that
his efforts are working. The harsher your words, the more proof
that you are getting flustered, and he is getting to you.

Sooner or later, ppl run out of amo.

As will you. Hopefully, before that happens you will discover that
you are using the wrong kind of ammo to attack an egotistical
psychopath.


-Chuck

Chuck,
You hit the nail on the head. That's one thing about the 'net; you can puke
out bile all day long, insulting & slandering any one you please and at what
risk? Certainly the risk of physical confrontation is non- existent,
considering the respondents are scattered across the globe. Does make a neat
visual though, the thought The Psychopath of walking down South Street in
Philly just as the Magnaquest Mob blows out of a rowdy South Street bar!
Hee! Hee! Or, when The Psycopath is severly beaten after leaving his
favorite Irish Blue Boy Bar, the local police will have to track down about
two dozen people around the world, if they are so inclined, which I doubt,
as possible suspects.
Mark

"Phil Allison" wrote in message . au...

Andre Jute is very much a real person - a competent, published technical
author in fact (like me).
Snip...........

Oh Dear! ! ! ! ! !

Snippety,Snippet,Snip.......

Turner is a real piece of scum.

What is an un-real piece of scum?

M & M Aunt J AM P31

"MDHJWH" wrote in message
om...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message
. au...

Andre Jute is very much a real person - a competent, published
technical
author in fact (like me).
Snip...........

Oh Dear! ! ! ! ! !

Snippety,Snippet,Snip.......

Turner is a real piece of scum.

What is an un-real piece of scum?

M & M Aunt J AM P31

It's when you "imagine" that there is a build up of stain rings around the
bath-tub:-)

Dale

"Fritz Wuehler"

I dont share your objection to commercial entities on the net.

** The "net" is inherently a commercial medium. I think you meant to say
"Usenet" which was created as a public forum and information exchange. Those
with commercial interests to promote and hence protect are on very thin ice
when they chose to use public newsgroups to gain exposure for their wares.

Few such persons can resist the urge to play salesman and all knowing
product guru for all they are worth - just as they might do in real life.
The difference is they are not in their showrooms any more and cannot demand
or expect any courtesy.

One dealer on newsgroup begets others - pretty soon they take over
completely as with all the USA based audio newsgroups. The dealers then wind
up fighting each other and any person who challenges their many lies and
marketing lines of bull****. They also get assorted customers, friends and
stooges to post in support of them and against any doubter so it appears
they have a big majority in support.

Go see "alt.guitar.amps" for evidence of just how bad this can become.

Those dealers who restrict their Usenet activity to posting FSs and COMMs
and are prepared to cop any criticism that gets posted do little harm. It
is the other kind that needs to be given the boot.




............. Phil