[geoff]

On 6/10/2015 1:34 a.m., wrote:
Listen up: You guys CLAIM you can't stand
the overcompression of music today(see geoff
a few posts back), yet you sure CAN'T STAND IT
when someone brings it up!

... and brings it up, and brings it up, and brings it up, and ....


Bipolar group if you ask me...

No , that's your other group.

Ask yourself ! Oh, no, that's the schizo group.

geoff

[JackA]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 7:26:42 PM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
We all know about the "loudness wars" and how, every now and then, a
few producers and engineers are saying "no" (or at least opting for
"less crush").

But perhaps the overall damage is already done. I've been hearing
more and more of what I call a "gray" sound across a wider range of
releases.

"Gray" sound is a bit like over-spiced food. Used in excess,
super-spicing makes your mouth go "gray" such that you can no longer
discern subtleties, delicate nuance, or delightful taste surprises
hidden deep within the cuisine.

Something similar has happened with too many mastered projects. Even
though some mastering engineers profess the utmost care for the sound
they handle, I'm becoming convinced that sadly many have no idea what
that means.

I sent a recent project back to the mastering house *three times*,
****ing off many people in the process. (Though, to their credit,
each time the client thought "everything sounded great" they could
eventually hear what I had been complaining about as each revision came back.

In the first attempt, the wrong noise shaping had been used (way too
much, which exaggerated screeching all the way around -- noise
shaping can affect sonics). In revision 2, some overreaching screech
EQ got removed. In revision 3, approximately half the signal
processing was bypassed entirely, helping to further lower the
newly-added distortion.

Finally, at least, my ears stopped bleeding.

My ongoing question had been, didn't you hear any of these issues while you
mastered???

Still, even after 3 tries it was not what it should have been. It
became (to the client) diminishing returns, and the mastering house
had, in their own estimation, done everything I'd asked for -- except
bring back fully the depth and sparkle that I'd sent them. They
apparently simply could not hear the difference, and the sound had
thus been "grayed". The sound had become dimensionally flat and musically
not as interesting.

The mastering gear, monitors, or ears apparently could not resolve
what the hell I was ranting about. Was I being too picky? Asking too
much from 44.1/16? Too crazy in general?

I didn't think so, as I have heard (and own) some stunning CDs with
the qualities I aspire to get in my own work. And in playing back
this recent project for laymen (but on good monitors in a good room)
they each could readily detect the before and not-so-good after.

But it's not just my current project. I'm hearing something similar
in more and more "modern" mastering jobs. Is it my old man ears or
older electronics? No, that's easily taken out of the equation by
periodically playing any one of those several amazing CDs through the
same system.

And, these better CDs have fairly high crest factors. With the
right mastering ear and mastering gear, an elevated level can
apparently be done without ruining too much.

So what have we wrought? What has an apparent overall lack of musical
sensitivity and aesthetic in society at large done to those now
calling themselves mastering engineers?

I'm curious as to your own experiences with your own releases. Do you feel a growing
disservice from mastering in general, or have you found a few gems
scattered among the gravel? If so, I'd love to know who you prefer to
use. (The mastering house noted above came highly recommended and had
some bigger-name clients, but I'll never go near them again.)

Thanks in advance for your comments.
rant off.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--
.

Frank, here's my two cents, for what it's worth...

I feel MIXING is MORE IMPORTANT than mastering. If you want to hear the clarity of each instrument, mixing is where that happens. As I found, just moving positions and levels (instruments/singing) can make or break a tune or hide sounds. When you say "mastering", I think you already have whatever mixed (in stereo). Mastering, to me, is audio ENHANCING, fine tuning bass/treble, maybe some compression, whatever. However, if the mix isn't "right", you'll never be pleased.

One fine reason why I enjoy Stereo reproduction is for the clarity of instruments. I refer to the phenomenon as masking of sounds, as occurs in monophonic reproduction. But, it can occur in Stereo, if you're not careful. I try to logically separate sounds, such as bass and cymbals, I don't want one masking the other. Why I became uninterested in stereo, when mixing sounded near mono sound, beginning in the early '70's. In mixes others made, I hear things an think my watch alarm has sounded, really! It's just two frequencies interfering.

I really do believe YOU can do all the audio work, it isn't that hard, just requires a good ear for fine sound quality. And the neat thing is, in the digital world, if you don't like it, you just undo!

Anyway, best of luck.

Jack
p.s. I must have mixed that last Van Halen song MANY times. Each time it sounded boring/lifeless to me, regardless of what I did. But, then I hear the "hit" mix (YouTube), and I gave myself a pat on the back, since my last mix, I can now hear the drummer hitting the ride cymbal at the end and vocal clarity is better!

[JackA]

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 8:50:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I'm not interested enough to keep track of who likes what here..

but to those of you whining about hyper-compression, I hate it too.....

but instead of whining about it, I got myself a Dolby dynamic range expander.

Or you can create expanded mixes in a DAW using a software plugin.

Or you can invent such a plug in and get rich.

If you hate it so much, make your own re-mixes, maybe Jack can help you.

Mark

Story...

Sony CD, Bob Irwin (Sundazed) did/does work for Sony. He noticed when Columbia purchased other record labels, they just obtained the master tapes, one was a favorites, Chi Coltrane - Thunder And Lightning (song), sounded okay, but some tape hiss a bit spent. Years pass, and I stumble across a Chi Coltrane web site with CDs for sale. I look who mastered them, and it was a young male admirer of hers (abroad); she was touring. What he mixed was just too loud for my ears, though I could tell it was remixed, since no tape noise, as loud as it was. Bottom line, it told me where the multi-tracks were..

No reply required.

Jack

[Phil W]

Nil:
On 04 Oct 2015, gray_wolf wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

You can start your own yahoo group on any subject you desire.
Then you'll be free to discuss everything with those that join
you. As the group owner you can control everything and boot any
undesirables from the group

That will leave him with a group of precisely one.

.... and still, he´ll find each member there to disagree with him and argue
about their views! ;-)