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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially
about the microphones quality? Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti.
Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č dotato di due ingressi con phantom. Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare... Se vuoi altre info, scrivimi in privato (togli tutti gli spazi): t i o r b a @ g m a i l . c o m ZZ "MarcoM" ha scritto nel messaggio ... Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about the microphones quality? Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:29:28 GMT, MarcoM wrote:
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about the microphones quality? Marco Can't speak for it myself but take a look at taperssection.com (use the search function). They have discussed it several times. Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08:
Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09. It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels setting... Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
"Thomas Jespersen" wrote in message ... On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:29:28 GMT, MarcoM wrote: Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about the microphones quality? Marco Can't speak for it myself but take a look at taperssection.com (use the search function). They have discussed it several times. Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09. Just Google "Zoom H4" and you'll run across a half dozen "reviews". |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Mar 8, 12:29 pm, MarcoM wrote:
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about the microphones quality? Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/index.php |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
"zigo.zago" wrote in message .. . I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti. Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č dotato di due ingressi con phantom. Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare... Se vuoi altre info, scrivimi in privato (togli tutti gli spazi): t i o r b a @ g m a i l . c o m ZZ Yeah, what he said.....ditto. ;-) dave "MarcoM" ha scritto nel messaggio ... Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about the microphones quality? Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
In article ,
MarcoM wrote: Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08: Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09. It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels setting... Marco Cite your sources, because I have an Edirol R-09 and don't have any problems. It's smaller than the H4, easier to use, and the build quality (made in Japan by Roland) is superior. Roland/Edirol vs Samson/Zoom. Quality vs cheap. The R-09 is easier to use because you hit the dedicated record button twice to record. Once to put it in record mode where you set levels, and the 2nd time to record. The H4 has sloppy feeling buttons that have multiple uses, where if you want to have it record, you have to make sure that pushed button is in record mode. There were lots of threads where the H4 had the clicking problem. I'm in all the recording forums, where people post about both of these units, and it's clear the R-09 is preferred. The only people who say the H4 is better, are the people who are defending their $100 savings in purchasing the H4 over the R-09. If they were the same price, I doubt anyone would buy the H4 over the R-09. If the $100 price difference is important, the H4 is better than anything else at it's price. I'd still buy it over a minidisc. Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem? |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Steve,
I think perhaps you should get your act together here and take a look at the comparisons on the Swee****er Sound website. I can from that show you where there are several areas the R9 is not up to the Zoom H4 level, and that is from a company that sells most of the competitors as well. Wake up and smell the roses, and quit rationalizing. Bruce Smith "Steve" wrote in message ... In article , MarcoM wrote: Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08: Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09. It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels setting... Marco Cite your sources, because I have an Edirol R-09 and don't have any problems. It's smaller than the H4, easier to use, and the build quality (made in Japan by Roland) is superior. Roland/Edirol vs Samson/Zoom. Quality vs cheap. The R-09 is easier to use because you hit the dedicated record button twice to record. Once to put it in record mode where you set levels, and the 2nd time to record. The H4 has sloppy feeling buttons that have multiple uses, where if you want to have it record, you have to make sure that pushed button is in record mode. There were lots of threads where the H4 had the clicking problem. I'm in all the recording forums, where people post about both of these units, and it's clear the R-09 is preferred. The only people who say the H4 is better, are the people who are defending their $100 savings in purchasing the H4 over the R-09. If they were the same price, I doubt anyone would buy the H4 over the R-09. If the $100 price difference is important, the H4 is better than anything else at it's price. I'd still buy it over a minidisc. Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem? |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Steve, 09/03/2007 8.29:
Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem? An owner of the R-09 told me you can hear an electronic click for every step of the volume setting, but this is listenable only recording very soft sounds. Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Mar 9, 12:25 pm, MarcoM wrote:
An owner of the R-09 told me you can hear an electronic click for every step of the volume setting I believe I have read the same thing, and in fact my Jukebox 3 does a brief mute each step of the gain setting. But my philosophy is that you set the record level once (correctly, of course) and then leave it alone through the duration of the recording. You may generate a few clicks at the start while you're establishing the correct setting, but once that's done and you leave it alone, it should be no problem. People who think they have to ride the gain throughout a recording aren't "digital ready." It's certainly reasonable, providing you have the skill, to ride the gain on a singer when recording a vocal TRACK, but that isn't what you use these recorders for. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Mike Rivers, 09/03/2007 19.28:
People who think they have to ride the gain throughout a recording aren't "digital ready." It's certainly reasonable, providing you have the skill, to ride the gain on a singer when recording a vocal TRACK, but that isn't what you use these recorders for. I know it, I recorded a lot of shows through last ten years with my MD + mics and battery box, always without changing rec level (except for the first 1 or 2 times). Anyway this is a defect, and not a good thing for any recorder. Marco -- [cut off the capital B to reply] |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Mar 9, 2:36 pm, MarcoM wrote:
Anyway this is a defect, and not a good thing for any recorder. Call it what you will, but you can't use what they don't make. However understanding and work-arounds allow us to get a lot of good use out of defective equipment. Hell, if I wanted a computer without defects I'd be using my slide rule and the Post Office more often. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Dave Morrison wrote:
"zigo.zago" wrote in message .. . I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti. Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č dotato di due ingressi con phantom. Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare... Yeah, what he said.....ditto. ;-) He was saying that he was ugly, and his mother dresses him funny. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
In article ,
"Baabin" wrote: Steve, I think perhaps you should get your act together here and take a look at the comparisons on the Swee****er Sound website. I can from that show you where there are several areas the R9 is not up to the Zoom H4 level, and that is from a company that sells most of the competitors as well. Wake up and smell the roses, and quit rationalizing. Bruce Smith You looked at a retail site where they probably make more money selling Zoom than Edirol. Why don't you do some research where people don't benefit from a sale, and tell their real world experiences, like a recording forum? I suppose if you go to the Zoom site, they'll also tell you why you should buy their recorder over the competitors. Taperssection.com would be a good start. I happen to have my act together. I did a ton of research. I also listened to each one, and held each one in my hand. I'll admit that most of what I know about the H4's faults is from Taperssection.com forums where people are really into recording, everything from blank media to hardware, and I do own a R-09 and use it all the time. Since you seem to be commenting on my lack of knowledge of these recorders, and sticking up for what you feel is the superior H4 - Do you actually own one, or are you just mouthing off? |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Mar 10, 4:29 am, Steve wrote:
You looked at a retail site where they probably make more money selling Zoom than Edirol. Why don't you do some research where people don't benefit from a sale, and tell their real world experiences, like a recording forum? You mean a recording forum where people do their research by reading the forum? Forums tend to have their "favorite" products - for instance you can't say "I want a compressor" around here without someone saying "RNC," even people who have never used one. And you get the opinions of individuals who may have compared two at a store, chose one, found it was OK, and so that's the one they recommend. Magazines, even ones with review that aren't subsidized by advertisers, rarely do "shootouts" but you might be able to compare objective articles if you wait long enough to see reviews of the different units you want to compare. But by the time the review you've been waiting for comes out, the first unit reviewed has been discontinued or superseded. So your best bet is to do your own evaluation. Don't worry about what's best, look for what meets your needs, including your performance standards. And be prepared to accept some compromises - nothing has it all. I happen to have my act together. I did a ton of research. I also listened to each one, and held each one in my hand. I'll admit that most of what I know about the H4's faults is from Taperssection.com forums where people are really into recording, everything from blank media to hardware, and I do own a R-09 and use it all the time. What are the qualifications of the Tapers? If some (or one) said he came home with a blank card instead of a recording, does he know if the problem was really with the recorder? The card? How the card was prepared? Cockpit trouble? One man's "all you have to do is push a button to start recording" is another man's "You can start recording with one button after you go through two menus to make sure you have everything set right, but bring a flashlight because you can't see the display in the dark." You can think you've done your homework thoroughly and find that you were studying the wrong books or went to the wrong school. There are no guarantees with reviews no matter where you read them. Since you seem to be commenting on my lack of knowledge of these recorders, and sticking up for what you feel is the superior H4 - Do you actually own one, or are you just mouthing off? I'm just mouthing off. I'd like very much to try a Z4 myself, but it's not convenient for me to buy one and I don't know anyone who owns one, so I'm happy enough doing without. I'm actually more eager to try the Z2 when it comes out. While I like the idea of being able to use real mics with the Z4, its audio would have to be awfully good (something for which I haven't seen any quantitative or even trustworthy subjective evaluation yet) before I'd use it for anything but an informal recording, for which the built-in mics would probably be just fine. And for something that I'd want to pull out of my pocket or guitar case, the Z2 fits better than the Z4. The Edirol R09 would serve just as well but the Z2 is cheaper and the difference in sound may not justify the difference in price for my application. For yours, whatever that might be, it might indeed sound $100 better. So I don't have any reason to trust you any more or less than anyone else I don't know, who's work I don't know, who hasn't taken it apart and told me what's inside, who hasn't made bench measurements and published them. And at this point I don't need one enough to put up my own money and try it myself. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
In article m,
"Mike Rivers" wrote: On Mar 10, 4:29 am, Steve wrote: I'm just mouthing off. I'd like very much to try a Z4 myself, but it's not convenient for me to buy one and I don't know anyone who owns one, so I'm happy enough doing without. I'm actually more eager to try the Z2 when it comes out. While I like the idea of being able to use real mics with the Z4, its audio would have to be awfully good (something for which I haven't seen any quantitative or even trustworthy subjective evaluation yet) before I'd use it for anything but an informal recording, for which the built-in mics would probably be just fine. And for something that I'd want to pull out of my pocket or guitar case, the Z2 fits better than the Z4. The Edirol R09 would serve just as well but the Z2 is cheaper and the difference in sound may not justify the difference in price for my application. For yours, whatever that might be, it might indeed sound $100 better. So I don't have any reason to trust you any more or less than anyone else I don't know, who's work I don't know, who hasn't taken it apart and told me what's inside, who hasn't made bench measurements and published them. And at this point I don't need one enough to put up my own money and try it myself. Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol and Zoom models are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in preamps and mics. Sound quality, as we know, is subjective anyway. Making the right/best choice comes down to other things. For me, it came down to real world usage. I liked that the Edirol unit was smaller. An inch in length and a half inch in width may not seem like much until you try and fit it in your pocket. There's also the battery time advantage in the Edirol. 4 hrs for the Zoom vs 6 hours for the Edirol. There a 2GB SD Card limit (unless there's been a recent upgrade) for the Zoom, and an 8GB card limit in the Edirol (the firmware has been upgraded a number of times in the last few months), and recording at a higher resolution gets you much more time with the Edirol. That may not matter to some who are recording 1 hour concerts, but I like to record 4+ hour gigs, and with the Edirol, I can record 4 hours at the highest resolution. I also have to mention the dedicated "record" button and how easy it is to just start a recording on the Edirol without going thru menus. Who can say if $100 is worth having those differences, but people do pay more for the luxury of a BMW vs. a Chevy, even though they both take you to the same place. I'll also mention that in my area, the H4 is $299 and the Edirol is $399. I found a source that gave me 15% off the Edirol, and I got it for $339, so for me, it was $40 more than the H4 (no discount was available), and for those reasons I gave above, it was $40 well spent. Best of luck. Steve |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
On Mar 11, 4:05 am, Steve wrote:
Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol and Zoom models are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in preamps and mics. I figured as much. But both of them have received great praise for their sound when using the built-in microphones. Just because of the way that they can reasonably be placed, I wouldn't expect spectacular results. Is anyone really going to put one up on a mic stand unless it's being used in something like a band rehearsal where nobody's looking. I'd be more interested in knowing how a boundary, like a table, affects the mics. I'd be inclined to put either of them on a table with the bottom surface on the table and the mics raised by at least the height of the recorder, but neither one looks like it would be stable like that. For me, it came down to real world usage. I liked that the Edirol unit was smaller. An inch in length and a half inch in width may not seem like much until you try and fit it in your pocket. That would be the same for me, but first I'd need to decide if I was going to use it at all, or rather, use it enough to justify the cost, low as it is. I'd love to have a $1,000 digital camera because I like quality things, but I bought a $100 camera because I take about a dozen pictures a year, and most of them are for articles and my $100 camera is good enough. Back when I carried a cassette recorder with me to learn songs at parties and festivals, I would have welcomed one of these flash memory recorders. But today I don't do that, so that's a big chunk of usage I wouldn't get from it. I need something that's cheap enough to not use, if that makes any sense. There a 2GB SD Card limit (unless there's been a recent upgrade) for the Zoom, and an 8GB card limit in the Edirol That's not a big deal for me. While memory cards keep getting larger, it will be a long time before they're inexpensive enough to put on the shelf and not re-use (and then how the heck are you going to file them, with no space to even write the contents on them). If I'm going to record more than a couple of hours in a shot, it will be 10 to 20 hours, and I want it on a hard drive. Micro Center is selling 2 GB SD cards for $15 now, so I'd probably get one of those (assuming it works in the recorder - camera folks have found some cards that don't work in some cameras and I assume the same is true with recorders) and it would be all I'd ever need. I might get one more as a spare. Edirol is inclined to do firmware updates, Samson (Zoom) isn't. So while they say that its memory capacity may be extended, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm still waiting for them to come up with a working version of the meter/gain control application for their USB microphone. The one that they released when they introduced the first of those mics didn't work at all (Tech Support confirmed it, but it's not really necessary) but it looked pretty. I think it's still on their web site with a link to download it. It's possible that it's been updated since they now have a Universal Binary version for the Mac. I haven't bothered checking it out again. I also have to mention the dedicated "record" button and how easy it is to just start a recording on the Edirol without going thru menus. The Zoom has a Record button. I assume there's a certain amount of menu selection to set parameters, but once that's done, unless you want to change something, is there more to recording than pushing the button? As I recall, you have to press it twice. The first press puts you in Rec/Pause so you can check the record level, the next press starts recording. That makes perfectly good sense to me, though something more convoluted probably wouldn't. I'll also mention that in my area, the H4 is $299 and the Edirol is $399. That seems to be pretty standard. I've never seen either one for less, so I guess your 15% discount must have been an unadvertised deal. But until I know that I'd be happy with either one and get some mileage out of it, I'm holding out for that $500 hard disk recorder with phantom powered XLR inputs and decent preamps that would replace two pieces of gear for remotes. I'm curious about the Korg DSD recorder, but the big version is $1,000. While I have the cash, I might find it hard to justify as long as the Jukebox still works. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol andZoommodels are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in preamps and mics. Sound quality, as we know, is subjective anyway. Making the right/best choice comes down to other things. Lurker jumping into the middle of this conversation. I'm not an audio pro, I'm an acoustic musician interested in live recording in my home, or away, of unamplified acoustic instruments. I own the Microtrac, R-09 and H-4 (not to mention a few minidisc portables). To my ears, what I hear captured by the H-4 with it's internal mics sounds better than what I hear with the other devices. I don't deal with specs on audio devices, but the H-4 has much less hiss on playback and the sound of the instrument is much more realistic to me. The size of the R-09 can't be beat, but I agree it is subjective and I think the H-4 sounds better! |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
For the kind of recorder it is (Inexpensive, quick, portable & easy to
use), I think the R-09 is the solid choice. Less goofing around with buttons and so forth. Transfers are quick. Me like. |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H4 digital recorder?
The size of the R-09 can't be beat, but I agree it is subjective and I think the H-4 sounds better! The H-4 is definitely much better in terms of sound quality. Both the internal mics are (much) better and also the mic preamps are better (less hiss) than those of the Edirol. I own the H-4 and have listened to a couple of direct comparisons against the R-09. The Edirol however is smaller than the Zoom and also its built quality is better. The switches on the Zoom are very small - almost like DIP-Switches. Overall the H-4 doesn't feel very solid. No you have to sort out your priorities ;-) Martin |
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