this is a theoretical question.

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

i know wind is a big problem for sound, and playback systems lose
efficiency without wall support.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

wrote:
this is a theoretical question.

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

i know wind is a big problem for sound, and playback systems lose
efficiency without wall support.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

Yeah !
Let's go, I'll help 'listen'.

In reality there is the danger of being distracted
by things that are now in view that were hidden by
the walls. And no wind doesn't mean no noise from
other sources like the surf or those cute babes
jumping into the pool. ;;;o

Great question !

rd
(I'll bring the iced tea)

wrote in message
oups.com...
this is a theoretical question.

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

No - you'll get sand or dust in everything.

geoff

In article .com writes:

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

Yeah, if you could lose the roof. Celiings can cause just as many
acoustic problems as floors.

How about mixing while floating over the earth carried by a large
balloon? When you're finished mixing, you can just let out some hot
air, drop down, and deliver the project right to the client's door.
If the project was on a couple of dozen reels of 2" tape, you'd
probably lose enough ballast at the delivery site so that you could
take off again and float home.





--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article znr1119008239k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
In article .com writes:

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

Yeah, if you could lose the roof. Celiings can cause just as many
acoustic problems as floors.

I don't _want_ to mix in a room with no acoustics. I'd wind up making
mixes that didn't translate well as all because they'd be much more
distant. And it would be hard to get the low end right.

Lots of folks have built speakers with reduced treble dispersion to try
and reduce room effects... and the end result are speakers that drive
me up the wall because everything sounds like it's in your face. Eliminating
room effects is not such a good idea. You only want to eliminate _some_
room effects.

How about mixing while floating over the earth carried by a large
balloon? When you're finished mixing, you can just let out some hot
air, drop down, and deliver the project right to the client's door.
If the project was on a couple of dozen reels of 2" tape, you'd
probably lose enough ballast at the delivery site so that you could
take off again and float home.

That might explain this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/17/bli....ap/index.html
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article znr1119008239k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

In article .com writes:


to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

Yeah, if you could lose the roof. Celiings can cause just as many
acoustic problems as floors.


I don't _want_ to mix in a room with no acoustics. I'd wind up making
mixes that didn't translate well as all because they'd be much more
distant. And it would be hard to get the low end right.

Lots of folks have built speakers with reduced treble dispersion to try
and reduce room effects... and the end result are speakers that drive
me up the wall because everything sounds like it's in your face. Eliminating
room effects is not such a good idea. You only want to eliminate _some_
room effects.


How about mixing while floating over the earth carried by a large
balloon? When you're finished mixing, you can just let out some hot
air, drop down, and deliver the project right to the client's door.
If the project was on a couple of dozen reels of 2" tape, you'd
probably lose enough ballast at the delivery site so that you could
take off again and float home.


That might explain this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/17/bli....ap/index.html
--scott


I think this is the first good, non-sarcastic answer....I think mixing
in a room like you describe would be somewhat similar to mixing on open
backed headphones...besides, the type of super-fine tuning that might be
achieved with a room like this sound be reserved for a mastering
engineer (not mix engineer) who has a room and equipment specifically
built for this purpose.

Jonny Durango

wrote:
this is a theoretical question.

to avoid room effects, i was thinking the ideal mixing "room" would be
a wall-less tiki hut, with just a thatch roof and 4 posts supporting it
on the corners.

i know wind is a big problem for sound, and playback systems lose
efficiency without wall support.

but supposing there was no wind, and it was a nice 72 degrees Farenheit
out. wouldn't that be a good place to mix with a tall glass of iced
tea?

Not if you're working on an old Neve, I think they need air a bit
cooler than that to stay happy.

Big fan of Don Ho's "Tiny Bubbles" recording maybe? g
Although I think Audy Kimura worked on that in a room a bit more
substantial than a Tiki-Hut or a grass shack...

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy *orig from Hawaii*
Staff Audio/Fox NewsChannel/M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

the roof would be a simple Gilligan's Island style thatch. so pretty
lossy. the ground would have more of a bounce than this kind of roof.
but the ground would be some sort of gravel. the rolling chair would
need some sort of granite slab.

In article . com writes:

the roof would be a simple Gilligan's Island style thatch. so pretty
lossy.

For lows, yes, but highs would reflect from it pretty well, though
they might be disbursed somewhat.

Where would you keep the goats when you're recording? Goat hoofbeats
overhead would be distracting.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

i'm thinking if the roof is 10 feet high, and about 12x12... i mean how
much can a straw woven roof like this reflect? if the speakers only go
up to about 6 feet, almost all of the spurious sound would simply shoot
out all 4 open sides.

everybody talks about having a neutral room. how about no room? that
means you're hearing all speaker and no room. that seems to be the
most theoretically neutral you can get. maybe you would have to get
used to not having bass reinforcement from the walls. but once you get
used to it, what "sonic fingerprint" is there? nothing except the
speaker system as far as I can understand.

i know what you're saying.

my thought is this: let's say you're trying to hear the "true sound" of
a trumpet. simply having the person play outside not near any walls
(out in a field somewhere) and listening at a safe yet close distance
to me is a pretty good rendering of the truth, probably as good as it
gets.

now put that trumpet player in an enclosed environment. is this room
"adding" to the truth of the trumpet? no way.

that would be like saying the trumpet player is "lying" by playing
outside.

so why would audio playback be any different? if the original source
can produce "truth" outdoors, the playback system should be able to
also.

now i know there is a problem with efficiency and driving loudspeakers
to full rock-concert levels. but a simple system not trying to blow
people away should be able to produce fidelity at a 6 foot listening
distance outdoors.

wrote:

my thought is this: let's say you're trying to hear the "true sound" of
a trumpet. simply having the person play outside not near any walls
(out in a field somewhere) and listening at a safe yet close distance
to me is a pretty good rendering of the truth, probably as good as it
gets.

No, the true sound of a trumpet is a mixture of the direct sound and
the room sound.

If you listen in a totally dry enviroment, all kinds of sounds are coming
out of the horn in different directions. Normally the room mixes them
together, but without the room you only hear what comes out in one
direction.

now put that trumpet player in an enclosed environment. is this room
"adding" to the truth of the trumpet? no way.

Absolutely.

that would be like saying the trumpet player is "lying" by playing
outside.

No, but it's totally changing the sound of the instrument, and most of
the instruments are voiced to sound right in a concert hall.

so why would audio playback be any different? if the original source
can produce "truth" outdoors, the playback system should be able to
also.

You're looking for truth in the wrong place, here.

now i know there is a problem with efficiency and driving loudspeakers
to full rock-concert levels. but a simple system not trying to blow
people away should be able to produce fidelity at a 6 foot listening
distance outdoors.

Try it and see. You'll find it sounds much drier than it sound, because
the recordings you are using are made to be played back in a room.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1181487


On 2005-06-20 (ScottDorsey) said:
Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"
"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."
"Excuse me?"
Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.
Also works well for target practice.
REcall when I used to hang in the fidonet guitar echo. wE said that
bashing guitars was off topic and intolerable except for ovations.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"

"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."

"Excuse me?"

wrote:

Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"

"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."

"Excuse me?"

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

wrote:

Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"

"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."

"Excuse me?"

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.
--scott

Not nearly deep enough.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.

More like "doesn't get any worse than it already is to ten feet of
submersion."

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:22:57 -0500, Harvey Gerst
wrote:

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

wrote:

Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"

"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."

"Excuse me?"

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.
--scott

Not nearly deep enough.

What is this, the musical instrument for lawyers?

If Ovations existed in Shakespeare's time, I'm sure he would have
written something about it, much like he wrote about lawyers...

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

-----
http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley

"Hal Laurent" wrote in message ...

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.

More like "doesn't get any worse than it already is to ten feet of
submersion."

Whatever... 10 feet under would still be fine. ;-)

Ben Bradley wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:22:57 -0500, Harvey Gerst
wrote:


(Scott Dorsey) wrote:


wrote:

Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"

"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."

"Excuse me?"

Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.

Not nearly deep enough.


What is this, the musical instrument for lawyers?

If Ovations existed in Shakespeare's time, I'm sure he would have
written something about it, much like he wrote about lawyers...


"First, drown all the GSO's?"

On 6/21/05 8:46 AM, in article
, "
wrote:


On 2005-06-20 (ScottDorsey) said:
Salesman:
"What kind of acoustic guitar are you looking for?"
"An outdoor one, I already have an indoor one."
"Excuse me?"
Clearly, he wants an Ovation. Good down to ten feet submersion.
Also works well for target practice.

I dunno... It might recall its materials design heritage and come flying
back at me strumming Valkyries...

"the rolling chair would
need some sort of granite slab."

No chair. Hammock.

stv