[Nate Najar]

The son of one of my dear friends is in his 2nd year of film school at NYU. I remember when he was making home movies, meticulously setting up each shot, when he was 11 years old with a cheap home camcorder. he is doing some great work, and he is very technically minded with his video stuff, but, like many video people I meet, sort of misses the mark on the audio side. I quizzed him, and he has taken a sound for video class and understands very well the concepts behind capturing sound and dialog and mating it up with the video, but doesn't know much in way of the gear to use and how to set it up.

This started because I saw him a few weeks ago and he asked about a microphone to plug into his camera to get better sound for interviews and such. His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable.. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well.

for this little interview thing he was doing, I had him use my little zoom Q3 (not ideal, but all I had with me and MUCh better than the onboard audio) in audio mode and I dumped the files on his laptop. for that project it was just fine. But it got me thinking about a good kit for him. His birthday is next week so I want to set him up with something nice.

I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an inexpensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should be enough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but still would yield better results than he's getting.

what do you think of this? any suggestions on a better kit or anything I'm missing? I don't know much about sound for picture, I'm just using my regular audio knowledge and trying to fill in the gaps with common sense and logic....

thanks!

[Steve King]

"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18...
The son of one of my dear friends is in his 2nd year of film school at NYU.
I remember when he was making home movies, meticulously setting up each
shot, when he was 11 years old with a cheap home camcorder. he is doing
some great work, and he is very technically minded with his video stuff,
but, like many video people I meet, sort of misses the mark on the audio
side. I quizzed him, and he has taken a sound for video class and
understands very well the concepts behind capturing sound and dialog and
mating it up with the video, but doesn't know much in way of the gear to use
and how to set it up.

This started because I saw him a few weeks ago and he asked about a
microphone to plug into his camera to get better sound for interviews and
such. His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe
undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the
shoe is going to capture that as well.

for this little interview thing he was doing, I had him use my little zoom
Q3 (not ideal, but all I had with me and MUCh better than the onboard audio)
in audio mode and I dumped the files on his laptop. for that project it was
just fine. But it got me thinking about a good kit for him. His birthday
is next week so I want to set him up with something nice.

I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still
has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an
inexpensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should
be enough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but
still would yield better results than he's getting.

what do you think of this? any suggestions on a better kit or anything I'm
missing? I don't know much about sound for picture, I'm just using my
regular audio knowledge and trying to fill in the gaps with common sense and
logic....

thanks!

You're on the right track. A super cardioid (Schoeps term that may be the
same thing as a hyper cardioid;-) is what most location mixers use for
interviews and interiors. And, for exteriors, too, if you don't need the
reach of a shotgun. I'd opt for a better super cardioid and let the shotgun
part of the kit come later. The Oktava MC012 is often recommended as a
budget replacement for the Schoeps MK41 that many, many professionals use.
Scott Dorsey has a mod that makes the MC012 even better. I've heard one
without the mod; it sounded very good. Very usable off-axis rejection, too.
Rode makes respected super cardiods, too. I don't have personal experience
with portable audio recorders, so take this for what it is..... Synch with
camera audio is the issue here. A video editor I've worked with for years
whose opinions I trust often uses a Zoom H2 ("because I have it", he says)
and finds that it drifts from camera audio after some period of time....
after 30 minutes or so of running time is how I believe he related the
experience. He does a lot of festival rock groups. He says he's able to
make it work with a little editing pixie dust. The Sony MDR 7506 is
probably the most commonly found headphones for location work. A bit hyped
in frequency response, but they are listenable and show up bad stuff well,
which is good. No strong opinion on the wired lav. If you have a budget to
meet, for all of these items, except the headphones, I'd personally opt for
used better quality rather than paying retail for lesser new stuff. Audio
houses that cater to location sound guys almost always have used equipment
and consignment goods. You could feel safe with Trew Audio among others. I
suspect they would recommend a creditable system to meet your budget. You
should also pose your question on newsgroup
rec.arts.movies.production.sound. The people that hang out there, even
though the traffic is not what it used to be, are people who make a living
doing sound for picture.

Steve King

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Najar wrote:

I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still=
has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an inexp=
ensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should be e=
nough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but stil=
l would yield better results than he's getting.

Skip the cheap shotgun... you really don't want anything lower end than a
416, really. Use a hypercardioid for everything until you can get a good
shotgun.

If the DR-40 has proper P48 phantom power, try the Oktava 012 with the
hypercardioid capsule. It's kind of wide, but it's about as tight as you
will get in that price range, and it's pretty clean.

Try a used Countryman Isomax II lav. They are kind of large, but they
sound good.

Don't forget the boom... and I am sorry to say that you get what you pay for
with a boom too... the new lighter carbon fibre ones are amazingly better than
the old bamboo poles we used when I was younger, but they are also way more
money.

Don't forget cables either... cables always seem to run into more money
than you ever expect.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Trevor]

"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18...
His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe
undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the
shoe is going to capture that as well.

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?

Trevor.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Trevor" wrote in message
...

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?

Auto-focusing?

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:55:52 -0500, Trevor wrote
(in article ):


"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18...
His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe
undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the
shoe is going to capture that as well.

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?

Trevor.


You'd think a mic that
s on a suspension mount might be better, but if the zoom and/or autofocus are
truly noisy, there's not much you can do.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:
"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18...
His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe
undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the
shoe is going to capture that as well.

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?

It's typical of the whole on-camera-mike thing. Every time you focus
the lens, every time you make a camera movement, touching the camera body
conducts noise into the mike.

And then they bring the files into the post house and expect the sound
post guys to magically make the noise go away....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Trevor]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Trevor" wrote in message
...

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?

Auto-focusing?

Continuous auto focussing doesn't work on a 7D while doing video.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
al.NET...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:55:52 -0500, Trevor wrote
(in article ):


"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18...
His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe
undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on
the
shoe is going to capture that as well.

Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm
puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from?


You'd think a mic that
s on a suspension mount might be better, but if the zoom and/or autofocus
are
truly noisy, there's not much you can do.


No motorised zoom or continuous auto focussing on a 7D while doing video to
create noise.
Of course the camera operator may be "mechanically noisy" I guess :-)

Trevor.

[Nate Najar]

On Thursday, December 1, 2011 11:20:05 PM UTC-5, Trevor wrote:


No motorised zoom or continuous auto focussing on a 7D while doing video to
create noise.
Of course the camera operator may be "mechanically noisy" I guess :-)

Trevor.

well I don't really know. I haven't used the thing. but he told me when he had used mics on the shoe they would pick up camera noise, so I relayed that information.

I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his own boom, but this should at least get him started....

N

[Nate Najar]

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions and good discussion!

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Najar wrote:
I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his own boom, but this should at least get him started....

Get him a Shure shockmount for the THE, and go to the hardware store and
buy a fibreglass painter's pole. They're no fun to boom with, but he'll
build up great shoulder muscles.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Trevor]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Nate Najar wrote:
I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I
gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his
own boom, but this should at least get him started....

Get him a Shure shockmount for the THE, and go to the hardware store and
buy a fibreglass painter's pole. They're no fun to boom with, but he'll
build up great shoulder muscles.

I'll say, trying to hold a video camera in one hand, while holding a
painters pole boom in the other!!

Trevor.