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#1
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#2
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hank alrich wrote: George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? Probably not when all is said and done, but what she is really supposed to do is be noticed by all the other single mothers with 14 year olds online that make 12 bucks an hour. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#3
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hank alrich wrote: George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? Probably not when all is said and done, but what she is really supposed to do is be noticed by all the other single mothers with 14 year olds online that make 12 bucks an hour. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#4
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hank alrich wrote: George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? Probably not when all is said and done, but what she is really supposed to do is be noticed by all the other single mothers with 14 year olds online that make 12 bucks an hour. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#5
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No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway.
What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#6
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LOL........Good idea !!!!
Tommy B wrote in message link.net... No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway. What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#7
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LOL........Good idea !!!!
Tommy B wrote in message link.net... No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway. What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#8
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LOL........Good idea !!!!
Tommy B wrote in message link.net... No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway. What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#9
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No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway.
What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#10
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No , but her 15 year old daughter can be made to work it off, in someway.
What about as an intern in for record label? She can learn and pay off her debt. I bet she'll do real well there. First lesson: How we steal from the Artists. Tom "hank alrich" wrote in message .. . George wrote: Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#11
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George wrote:
Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#12
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George wrote:
Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing A single mother who gets twelve bucks an hour is supposed to casually pay four grand? Hello, George? -- ha |
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#13
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George wrote in message ...
Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George Racketeering, anit-competition/anti-trust behavior, extortion and all the other things that are the primary practice of the RIAA are illegal and some carry a sentence of life in prison. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#15
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In article ,
(Mike) wrote: George wrote in message ... Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George Racketeering, anit-competition/anti-trust behavior, extortion and all the other things that are the primary practice of the RIAA are illegal and some carry a sentence of life in prison. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com so get the attorny general to charge and prosacute them I do not support crime on either side George |
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#16
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In article ,
(Mike) wrote: George wrote in message ... Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George Racketeering, anit-competition/anti-trust behavior, extortion and all the other things that are the primary practice of the RIAA are illegal and some carry a sentence of life in prison. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com so get the attorny general to charge and prosacute them I do not support crime on either side George |
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#17
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George wrote in message ...
Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George Racketeering, anit-competition/anti-trust behavior, extortion and all the other things that are the primary practice of the RIAA are illegal and some carry a sentence of life in prison. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#18
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George wrote in message ...
Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George Racketeering, anit-competition/anti-trust behavior, extortion and all the other things that are the primary practice of the RIAA are illegal and some carry a sentence of life in prison. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#19
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Let's get some things straight here (and I'm not directing this only at you,
G). The RIAA does not represent 100% of the record industry. In fact, most estimates give it about 55% of the record industry, concentrated in a few companies (ask the majority of the smaller record labels on the RIAA list if they believe the RIAA has provided a net benefit). Over the last five years, according to the RIAAs own numbers (the only ones widely available), sales are down, oh, 18%. These same companies have realeased, oh, 18% fewer titles. DUH!!!!!! In the same time frame, the non-RIAA companies and independents have sales that are UP about...................................18%, again from the RIAA's own numbers. Who's suffering here? Do consumers still buy music? The RIAA has assumed the responsibility of the local, state, and federal prosecuters, stacking congress with lawmakers who are too stupid to know that a download is not the same as a CD (even if is is, is the theft of a CD more than a misdemenor, requiring a small fine, restitution, a slap on the wrist...?), that digital does not equal perfect (do our congressmen not read RAP????), and that each file-trade does not equal a sale lost! If you are in the music industry, and you have a brain, you are aware of Soundscan, and how Soundscan has helped to expose a little of the greed of the lawyers and bean-counters who make up the record labels. Are you also aware of Big Champagne www.bigchampagne.com? It tracks files traded over the internet. Assuming a percentage of them don't get completed or are spoofs, Big Champagne is a pretty reliable tool. The RIAA and affiliated companies use it to track the poplularity of their songs...think about that one. One thing that is undeniable: track Big Champagne and you will see that each day, week, month, year...the songs that are traded the most are sold the most. The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Who's losing here? Do people still buy music? Deeper issues of how copyright law is in the hands of the foxes (or disneys) instead of the hens in the henhouse and should be deeply revised, how artists can sit by passively and whine or take matters into their own hands and create a career, and how we can't just sit around and do things as they always have been done, can and should be discussed. C'mon, our vocations and avocations are at stake here, this is serious business, and we have to get a clear understanding of these issues! There is still music to be made, and there is still money to be made from music! "George" wrote in message ... Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George |
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#20
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The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own
numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Gee. The most popular songs are "traded" the most. How unusual. The labels pay for the marketing and promotion. I believe you are trying to say that somehow people found out about this great music, traded it and then everyone bought it. Nope. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#21
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mmmmmmmmmmmm
Do me a favor, track the songs sold against the songs traded for a few weeks, and ask yourself if more songs were sold, the same amount of songs were sold, or fewer songs were sold. Our livelyhoods are at stake here, and you are fiddling on the deck of the Titanic. I don't think any "label" paid for any song to be marketed or promoted to this market. The labels sure pay independent promoters to pay Cheap Channel to play a few songs alot... You are in denial. "EggHd" wrote in message ... The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Gee. The most popular songs are "traded" the most. How unusual. The labels pay for the marketing and promotion. I believe you are trying to say that somehow people found out about this great music, traded it and then everyone bought it. Nope. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#22
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Do me a favor, track the songs sold against the songs traded for a few
weeks, and ask yourself if more songs were sold, the same amount of songs were sold, or fewer songs were sold. How would you know if they weren't being traded? Our livelyhoods are at stake here, and you are fiddling on the deck of the Titanic. That's bull****. I don't think any "label" paid for any song to be marketed or promoted to this market. Exactly! They have paid to drive awareness to a performer and song. How do you figure Mr internet trader knows to look for the biggest songs? Esp? Then peole go look for it. The trick would be if the songs were downloaded before anyone knew the artist and or song was released. The labels sure pay independent promoters to pay Cheap Channel to play a few songs alot... This shows what you don't understand. You are in denial. If so at least it's informed denial. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#23
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Do me a favor, track the songs sold against the songs traded for a few
weeks, and ask yourself if more songs were sold, the same amount of songs were sold, or fewer songs were sold. How would you know if they weren't being traded? Our livelyhoods are at stake here, and you are fiddling on the deck of the Titanic. That's bull****. I don't think any "label" paid for any song to be marketed or promoted to this market. Exactly! They have paid to drive awareness to a performer and song. How do you figure Mr internet trader knows to look for the biggest songs? Esp? Then peole go look for it. The trick would be if the songs were downloaded before anyone knew the artist and or song was released. The labels sure pay independent promoters to pay Cheap Channel to play a few songs alot... This shows what you don't understand. You are in denial. If so at least it's informed denial. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#24
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mmmmmmmmmmmm
Do me a favor, track the songs sold against the songs traded for a few weeks, and ask yourself if more songs were sold, the same amount of songs were sold, or fewer songs were sold. Our livelyhoods are at stake here, and you are fiddling on the deck of the Titanic. I don't think any "label" paid for any song to be marketed or promoted to this market. The labels sure pay independent promoters to pay Cheap Channel to play a few songs alot... You are in denial. "EggHd" wrote in message ... The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Gee. The most popular songs are "traded" the most. How unusual. The labels pay for the marketing and promotion. I believe you are trying to say that somehow people found out about this great music, traded it and then everyone bought it. Nope. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#25
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The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own
numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Gee. The most popular songs are "traded" the most. How unusual. The labels pay for the marketing and promotion. I believe you are trying to say that somehow people found out about this great music, traded it and then everyone bought it. Nope. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#26
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#27
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Very reasonable.
Maybe people buy a song after they've downloaded it, or maybe they download it after they've bought it, or maybe this is two completely different set of people. In any case, we probably won't know for another 25 years...like anything else, it is probably a reasonable mix of the possibilities. Just as, in this low-margin scenario, a few lost sales can make a big dent, a few sales made from cost-free marketing can also add tremendously to the bottom line. I'm not necessarily advocating for this simplistic solution, but it can be reasonably argued that file-trading is revenue-neutral or better. They want a piece of that. That's the point. In light of today's technology, and tomorrow's, the existing entertainment companies can stick with old business models that may or may not be working or they can devise a way to profit and prosper. Darwinian economics. "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1086345367k@trad... In article writes: One thing that is undeniable: track Big Champagne and you will see that each day, week, month, year...the songs that are traded the most are sold the most. The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. I would expect that, but not for the reason that people download a song then buy it (which would be a good thing). While "they" want us to think that downloading unpaid-for copies of music is running rampant, most people still get their music the old fashioned way. They hear a song on the radio, on TV, or in an elevator, and they go out and buy the disk. Like most businesses based on massive unit quantities of sales (like gasoline, for instance) there is only a small profit on each sale. Losing just a few percent of the potential customers can make a big dent in the books. The downloaders who don't pay for popular music do have an effect on the bottom line, but still the music doesn't get popular enough for them to notice and be able to find easily on the net unless it's sold in reasonable numbers. So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#28
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serious fun wrote:
I'm not necessarily advocating for this simplistic solution, but it can be reasonably argued that file-trading is revenue-neutral or better. I don't see how it can be either for the composer/author or publisher, given that to date no real mechanism is in place to get payment(s) like those received for radio and TV play, the performance royalties. There is more to this than just the impact on "consumer(s)", performer(s), and label(s). -- ha |
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#29
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serious fun wrote:
I'm not necessarily advocating for this simplistic solution, but it can be reasonably argued that file-trading is revenue-neutral or better. I don't see how it can be either for the composer/author or publisher, given that to date no real mechanism is in place to get payment(s) like those received for radio and TV play, the performance royalties. There is more to this than just the impact on "consumer(s)", performer(s), and label(s). -- ha |
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#30
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Very reasonable.
Maybe people buy a song after they've downloaded it, or maybe they download it after they've bought it, or maybe this is two completely different set of people. In any case, we probably won't know for another 25 years...like anything else, it is probably a reasonable mix of the possibilities. Just as, in this low-margin scenario, a few lost sales can make a big dent, a few sales made from cost-free marketing can also add tremendously to the bottom line. I'm not necessarily advocating for this simplistic solution, but it can be reasonably argued that file-trading is revenue-neutral or better. They want a piece of that. That's the point. In light of today's technology, and tomorrow's, the existing entertainment companies can stick with old business models that may or may not be working or they can devise a way to profit and prosper. Darwinian economics. "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1086345367k@trad... In article writes: One thing that is undeniable: track Big Champagne and you will see that each day, week, month, year...the songs that are traded the most are sold the most. The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. I would expect that, but not for the reason that people download a song then buy it (which would be a good thing). While "they" want us to think that downloading unpaid-for copies of music is running rampant, most people still get their music the old fashioned way. They hear a song on the radio, on TV, or in an elevator, and they go out and buy the disk. Like most businesses based on massive unit quantities of sales (like gasoline, for instance) there is only a small profit on each sale. Losing just a few percent of the potential customers can make a big dent in the books. The downloaders who don't pay for popular music do have an effect on the bottom line, but still the music doesn't get popular enough for them to notice and be able to find easily on the net unless it's sold in reasonable numbers. So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#31
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Mike Rivers wrote:
So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. Then they should ask for it. How can I complain that nobody puts money in my hand if I don't hold out my hand and open my palm? For the last 5 years of music downloads, nobody has refused to pay for their downloads because they haven't had the opportunity to refuse. They simply haven't been given the opportunity to pay. If they've since developed a preference for not paying, who can we blame but the guys who refused to collect? Their complaint is that nobody has been paying for what they refused to sell. ulysses |
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#32
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In article ,
Justin Ulysses Morse wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. Then they should ask for it. How can I complain that nobody puts money in my hand if I don't hold out my hand and open my palm? For the last 5 years of music downloads, nobody has refused to pay for their downloads because they haven't had the opportunity to refuse. They simply haven't been given the opportunity to pay. If they've since developed a preference for not paying, who can we blame but the guys who refused to collect? Their complaint is that nobody has been paying for what they refused to sell. ulysses try to sell that line of logic to the movie industry, who is much deeper into this than the music industry. your very premise is faulty, becuse someone figured out a new way to steal they should be exempt from the law? George |
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#33
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In article ,
Justin Ulysses Morse wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. Then they should ask for it. How can I complain that nobody puts money in my hand if I don't hold out my hand and open my palm? For the last 5 years of music downloads, nobody has refused to pay for their downloads because they haven't had the opportunity to refuse. They simply haven't been given the opportunity to pay. If they've since developed a preference for not paying, who can we blame but the guys who refused to collect? Their complaint is that nobody has been paying for what they refused to sell. ulysses try to sell that line of logic to the movie industry, who is much deeper into this than the music industry. your very premise is faulty, becuse someone figured out a new way to steal they should be exempt from the law? George |
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#34
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Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message om...
Mike Rivers wrote: So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. Then they should ask for it. How can I complain that nobody puts money in my hand if I don't hold out my hand and open my palm? For the last 5 years of music downloads, nobody has refused to pay for their downloads because they haven't had the opportunity to refuse. They simply haven't been given the opportunity to pay. If they've since developed a preference for not paying, who can we blame but the guys who refused to collect? Their complaint is that nobody has been paying for what they refused to sell. You don't know how right you are. I was employee #3 of a pioneering online music venture. If what I saw and heard was typical, the labels make it as hard as possible to give them money. The level of paranoia is staggering... -DrBoom |
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#35
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Mike Rivers wrote:
So in essence, existing sales are advertising for no-profit downloads. They want a piece of that. Then they should ask for it. How can I complain that nobody puts money in my hand if I don't hold out my hand and open my palm? For the last 5 years of music downloads, nobody has refused to pay for their downloads because they haven't had the opportunity to refuse. They simply haven't been given the opportunity to pay. If they've since developed a preference for not paying, who can we blame but the guys who refused to collect? Their complaint is that nobody has been paying for what they refused to sell. ulysses |
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#36
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#37
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Let's get some things straight here (and I'm not directing this only at you,
G). The RIAA does not represent 100% of the record industry. In fact, most estimates give it about 55% of the record industry, concentrated in a few companies (ask the majority of the smaller record labels on the RIAA list if they believe the RIAA has provided a net benefit). Over the last five years, according to the RIAAs own numbers (the only ones widely available), sales are down, oh, 18%. These same companies have realeased, oh, 18% fewer titles. DUH!!!!!! In the same time frame, the non-RIAA companies and independents have sales that are UP about...................................18%, again from the RIAA's own numbers. Who's suffering here? Do consumers still buy music? The RIAA has assumed the responsibility of the local, state, and federal prosecuters, stacking congress with lawmakers who are too stupid to know that a download is not the same as a CD (even if is is, is the theft of a CD more than a misdemenor, requiring a small fine, restitution, a slap on the wrist...?), that digital does not equal perfect (do our congressmen not read RAP????), and that each file-trade does not equal a sale lost! If you are in the music industry, and you have a brain, you are aware of Soundscan, and how Soundscan has helped to expose a little of the greed of the lawyers and bean-counters who make up the record labels. Are you also aware of Big Champagne www.bigchampagne.com? It tracks files traded over the internet. Assuming a percentage of them don't get completed or are spoofs, Big Champagne is a pretty reliable tool. The RIAA and affiliated companies use it to track the poplularity of their songs...think about that one. One thing that is undeniable: track Big Champagne and you will see that each day, week, month, year...the songs that are traded the most are sold the most. The songs that sell, according to the RIAA's own numbers, are the songs that are traded the most. Who's losing here? Do people still buy music? Deeper issues of how copyright law is in the hands of the foxes (or disneys) instead of the hens in the henhouse and should be deeply revised, how artists can sit by passively and whine or take matters into their own hands and create a career, and how we can't just sit around and do things as they always have been done, can and should be discussed. C'mon, our vocations and avocations are at stake here, this is serious business, and we have to get a clear understanding of these issues! There is still music to be made, and there is still money to be made from music! "George" wrote in message ... Cry me a ****ing river will ya someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George |
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#38
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Cry me a ****ing river will ya
someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George |
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#39
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Cry me a ****ing river will ya
someone steals, gets caught is offed a way out and I am supposed to feel thier pain? served them right pay the fine and stop stealing George |
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#40
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The only people being sued are those who made music files available to
others, NOT people who just downloaded music. She should consider herself lucky that criminal charges weren't filed in addition. The mom actually earns MORE than the average songwriter does. -- Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com |
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