If you have anything you're willing to sell, please send me an email.
I'm looking for a few channels of something good, but I'm not quite
sure what I want.

Thanks,
Gord

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Gord

If you have anything you're willing to sell, please send me an email.
I'm looking for a few channels of something good, but I'm not quite
sure what I want.

Thanks,
Gord

Do you think you could be a bit more vague?

In article writes:

If you have anything you're willing to sell, please send me an email.
I'm looking for a few channels of something good, but I'm not quite
sure what I want.

Why not ask Kevin to design one for you. He'll work with you and
you'll end up with something that works fine at 20 MHz with 160 dB of
dynamic range.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article znr1115123913k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

If you have anything you're willing to sell, please send me an email.
I'm looking for a few channels of something good, but I'm not quite
sure what I want.

Why not ask Kevin to design one for you. He'll work with you and
you'll end up with something that works fine at 20 MHz with 160 dB of
dynamic range.

If he can make it work up to 136 MHz, I'll take a dozen. I'm having
another one of those bad VHF input performance days.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3 May 2005 11:37:48 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article writes:

If you have anything you're willing to sell, please send me an email.
I'm looking for a few channels of something good, but I'm not quite
sure what I want.

Why not ask Kevin to design one for you. He'll work with you and
you'll end up with something that works fine at 20 MHz with 160 dB of
dynamic range.

And it'll only cost you $50.

Al

Vague?

OK, here are the details. I want 8 channels of preamp. I am going to go
in one of two routes:
1- all used.
-2 Channels clean (ie. Hardy, Avalon AD-2022, Great River MP-2NH,
along those lines)
-2 Channels API style (ie, 512Cs, Brent Averill, etc.)
-2 Channels Neve sound (ie. Phoenix Audio, Great River MP-2NV)
-2 Tube channels (Manley, Pendulum, etc.)

The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen, is to get
a couple of four channel units from Mercenary, like a 4 channel John
Hardy M-1, and maybe a GML 8304 or an API 3124+. I't gonna be all for
live rock/pop music, but I like the idea of getting transparent
preamps, so I'm not sure if I'd get the API. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Gord

wrote:

OK, here are the details. I want 8 channels of preamp. I am going to go
in one of two routes:
1- all used.
-2 Channels clean (ie. Hardy, Avalon AD-2022, Great River MP-2NH,
along those lines)
-2 Channels API style (ie, 512Cs, Brent Averill, etc.)
-2 Channels Neve sound (ie. Phoenix Audio, Great River MP-2NV)
-2 Tube channels (Manley, Pendulum, etc.)

The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen, is to get
a couple of four channel units from Mercenary, like a 4 channel John
Hardy M-1, and maybe a GML 8304 or an API 3124+. I't gonna be all for
live rock/pop music, but I like the idea of getting transparent
preamps, so I'm not sure if I'd get the API. What do you guys think?

I think if you are doing live recording work that you are going to be
spending too much time pulling your hair out to have any real time to
worry about what preamp you are using on what channels.

Get eight channels of the most transparent preamp you can. I'd recommend
the Hardy or the Great River. If you want to add color, you can do it in
post. Oh yes, and get something transformer-coupled because sooner or
later you're going to need the isolation, even if you're running a splitter.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article .com writes:

The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen, is to get
a couple of four channel units from Mercenary, like a 4 channel John
Hardy M-1, and maybe a GML 8304 or an API 3124+. I't gonna be all for
live rock/pop music, but I like the idea of getting transparent
preamps, so I'm not sure if I'd get the API. What do you guys think?

I think that if you're recording all rock music, you'd be making a
mistake not to get 8 APIs. They're clean enough for when you need
clean for rock and roll, and they have some authority and character in
a very good way.

By getting four channels of one type and four of a different type,
you'll never have enough of whatever you need. Even worse if you get
two channels of each of four types. How will you decide which to use
where? Unless this is to supplement a set of already good console mic
preamps. In which case I'd still suggest the four-by-four approach,
then start adding more preamps by ones and twos until you run out of
money or get rich.

There's been a lot of great music recorded through API preamps.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article .com writes:


The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen, is to get
a couple of four channel units from Mercenary, like a 4 channel John
Hardy M-1, and maybe a GML 8304 or an API 3124+. I't gonna be all for
live rock/pop music, but I like the idea of getting transparent
preamps, so I'm not sure if I'd get the API. What do you guys think?


I think that if you're recording all rock music, you'd be making a
mistake not to get 8 APIs. They're clean enough for when you need
clean for rock and roll, and they have some authority and character in
a very good way.

By getting four channels of one type and four of a different type,
you'll never have enough of whatever you need. Even worse if you get
two channels of each of four types. How will you decide which to use
where? Unless this is to supplement a set of already good console mic
preamps. In which case I'd still suggest the four-by-four approach,
then start adding more preamps by ones and twos until you run out of
money or get rich.

There's been a lot of great music recorded through API preamps.

The same can be said of M-1, M-2 and Jensen Twin Servo mic preamps,
including virtually all types of music, not just rock/pop!

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
www.johnhardyco.com

"There's been a lot of great music recorded through API preamps."

"The same can be said of M-1, M-2 and Jensen Twin Servo mic
preamps, including virtually all types of music, not just rock/pop!

-What are some examples of rock/pop recordings done with API preamps?
-What are some examples of recordings done with Hardy preamps?

So, Mike, you think I'd be better off with eight channels of one preamp
than 4 API and 4 Hardy, regardless of which one I choose?

I should get one of each from Mercenary, and then decide for myself.

Gord

If you get 8 channels of Gordon Instruments preamps you won't want to
use anything else.

Steve

Steve.
I've researched them, and from what I've read, I'd love to own eight
channels of Gordon audio preamps. But, at $2600 per pair, that's
$10,400 USD. Ouch!
Do you have experience with them? Can you describe the sound somehow?

Thanks,
Gord

wrote:
"There's been a lot of great music recorded through API preamps."


"The same can be said of M-1, M-2 and Jensen Twin Servo mic
preamps, including virtually all types of music, not just rock/pop!


-What are some examples of rock/pop recordings done with API preamps?
-What are some examples of recordings done with Hardy preamps?

So, Mike, you think I'd be better off with eight channels of one preamp
than 4 API and 4 Hardy, regardless of which one I choose?

I should get one of each from Mercenary, and then decide for myself.

Gord


Don't sweat it so much. As long as you are buying quality preamps like
you have mentioned, either choice will work out just fine.

On Wed, 4 May 2005 08:16:43 -0400, wrote
(in article .com):

Vague?

OK, here are the details. I want 8 channels of preamp. I am going to go
in one of two routes:
1- all used.
-2 Channels clean (ie. Hardy, Avalon AD-2022, Great River MP-2NH,
along those lines)
-2 Channels API style (ie, 512Cs, Brent Averill, etc.)
-2 Channels Neve sound (ie. Phoenix Audio, Great River MP-2NV)
-2 Tube channels (Manley, Pendulum, etc.)

The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen, is to get
a couple of four channel units from Mercenary, like a 4 channel John
Hardy M-1, and maybe a GML 8304 or an API 3124+. I't gonna be all for
live rock/pop music, but I like the idea of getting transparent
preamps, so I'm not sure if I'd get the API. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Gord


I like my 8304s, my Aphex 1100 and my Millennia Media STT-1.

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

wrote:
Steve.
I've researched them, and from what I've read, I'd love to own eight
channels of Gordon audio preamps. But, at $2600 per pair, that's
$10,400 USD. Ouch!
Do you have experience with them? Can you describe the sound somehow?

Thanks,
Gord


Yes I own 4 channels. My description is "holographic".

I wrote a review at Lynn Fuston's site: http://tinyurl.com/bcsr2 posted
as squeegybug.

Or you can just read through this list of comments, collected from lots
of folks here on RAP and other forums:

--------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to accuracy and sonic purity, the Gordon mic preamp is
simply the finest preamplifier I have ever encountered.

....the only reason I can imagine using another preamplifier, ever, is
if preamp coloration was necessary to attain the desired sound.

....this preamp is a quantum leap above any previous preamp design. Not
just a desert island piece, but a desert universe

The Gordon ate my $2500 mic pre for lunch. The thing just sounds
incredible.

....if you want to capture every bit of information that any given
microphone is putting out, this preamp will deliver.

I was shocked; there was a bigger difference between the Gordon and the
"Neve", than the "Neve" and a Mackie 1202.

There's been a little secret around Nashville for a while. Ask the
right people there about their favorite mic preamp and you'll hear the
name "Gordon."

My personal favorite preamp ever is the Gordon Audio pre. It is not
colored like a Neve, but it has balls like no other.

We weren't exactly prepared for how different the Gordon sounded from
the other pres ( v. 3 Grace Lunatec, Great River MP2-MH, and Millennia
HV-3D).

....a greater sense of the reality of the source, a more convincing
delivery of the illusion that one is hearing something live, not
transmitted.

We were sufficiently startled by the difference (apparently greater
detail captured by the Gordon preamp) that we firstly doubted our
assumptions of matched mics.

the Gordon preamp captures sources with startling reality, and that is
in comparison to some other very, very fine pres.

The absolute best preamp **ever** in terms of clarity, lack of
distortion and overall great sound is Grant Carpenter's Model 3 (and
now Model 4/5) preamps. I can all but guarantee you'll agree this is
the best preamp you've ever heard.

I own Millennia HV-3B, API, Amek/Neve. I have frequent contact with
Grace, U-Audio and Focusrite Red. None of these come close in quality
of sound.

if you are in need of the highest resolution and maximal extraction
from your microphones,the Gordon Instruments microphone preamps,is your
answer.

Upon our first audition we were so startled by the difference between
the Gordon and the other pres that we immediately assumed we'd done
something quite wrong, and/or that the mic feeding the Gordon was much
better than the others.

I work regularly with the Great River and the Millennia, and I always
appreciate them, and I enjoyed the opportunity to work even a little
with the Grace. But the Gordon is something else in comparison. ...it
almost strains my own beliefs to think there could be so much
additional transparency available from any preamp.

So far I have never heard any preamp approach the clarity and realism I
heard from the Gordon .

My absolute favorite preamp is the Gordon Audio model 3. Bigger than
life itself.

I made the mistake of a/b-ing it with my brand new $2000 preamp. I was
blown away how much better the Gordon sounded; easily worth the extra
$1500. I sold my preamp shortly thereafter.

....some of the most remarkable audio equipment I've used. This preamp
captures about every sound in great three dimensional realism, offers a
beautiful musical "flow", and seems to just sing along with you.

For the vocal recordings, "realistic" is an understatement. Every
microphone we tried just went deeper, wider, higher, fuller, when used
with the Model 2. It was remarkable; the other preamps were sounding
perfectly fine, then when the Gordon was switched in the others just
went flat.

--------------------------------------------------------------


Budget is always part of the system, for me anyway. But many high
quality preamps are $1k/ch or more, so 8 of them would cost...??

Steve

In article .com writes:

-What are some examples of rock/pop recordings done with API preamps?
-What are some examples of recordings done with Hardy preamps?

I dunno. But API consoles have been around so long that I'm sure there
were a lot of rock recordings made on them. In fact, some of those API
consoles that made hits probably had John Hardy op amp modules in them
to replace the API modules.

The "what recordings were made on?" verification of quality is really
pretty bogus. Good recordings can be made on any decent equipment. And
an API console in the hands of one engineer can sound different in the
hands of another enginer.

So, Mike, you think I'd be better off with eight channels of one preamp
than 4 API and 4 Hardy, regardless of which one I choose?

If it's a live recording gig, I'd say definitely get a whole set of
good preamps. You won't have time to fuss with which ones go where.

I should get one of each from Mercenary, and then decide for myself.

Good luck with your deciding. You should definitely listen.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Just a quick thanks to all who have taken the time to answer my
questions.

Steve,
If the Gordon mic pre is so much more transparent than the others, how
well do tracks with recorded with it mix with tracks recorded with the
other preamps you've mentioned? If you recorded your instruments with
API and Neve preamps and vocals with Gordon preamps, will they all sit
well together, or will the Gordon ones stand out too much?

Thanks,
Gord

On 4 May 2005 23:30:44 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:

Good luck with your deciding. You should definitely listen.

Arf!

And good luck to the OP,

Chris Hornbeck
"Clean, edgy, gutless, and lifeless." -Dan Kennedy

wrote:
Steve,
If the Gordon mic pre is so much more transparent than the others,
how
well do tracks with recorded with it mix with tracks recorded with
the
other preamps you've mentioned? If you recorded your instruments with
API and Neve preamps and vocals with Gordon preamps, will they all
sit
well together, or will the Gordon ones stand out too much?

Thanks,
Gord

No it doesn't have to work like that. I've recorded with a variety of
preamps along with the Gordons, you just mix the tracks to get the
tones you want just like with any mix.

But I prefer to get the purest tones up front, I like the space it
gives me to work with in the recording. You can always add color to a
clean sound; it doesn't go the other way.

And not to discount all the other fine preamps on the market like
Hardy, GR, A Designs, Neve, Pendulum, etc. Some excellent designs
there with beautiful sounds as well.

Sometimes absolute realism can be more like "deadly accurate"!

Steve

Maybe then I'll get 8 channels of Hardy or API, and 2 channels of
Gordon Audio and run with it.
Yeah, that's what I'll probably do.

Thanks guys,
Gord

In article .com,
wrote:
"There's been a lot of great music recorded through API preamps."

"The same can be said of M-1, M-2 and Jensen Twin Servo mic
preamps, including virtually all types of music, not just rock/pop!

-What are some examples of rock/pop recordings done with API preamps?
-What are some examples of recordings done with Hardy preamps?

So, Mike, you think I'd be better off with eight channels of one preamp
than 4 API and 4 Hardy, regardless of which one I choose?

I should get one of each from Mercenary, and then decide for myself.

I think you should too. But you should get Fletcher to let you try the
4-channel Great River too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Steve Scott wrote:
If you get 8 channels of Gordon Instruments preamps you won't want to
use anything else.

You will when you have a 65 volt ground fault wreck the front end.

Transformer isolation is a bad thing if you're looking for transparency,
but it can save your okole when you're in a live recording situation
working with badly-grounded PA systems. Transformers are much more
forgiving of RF trash and high common mode noise.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
I spoke to Dan a while ago, and I got the impression that he's
discontinuing the original preamps and will release something similar
in the near future. Maybe Dan will post something here to clarify, but
I'm not sure what the availability will be of those pres in the next
month or so.
Gord

In article .com writes:

If the Gordon mic pre is so much more transparent than the others, how
well do tracks with recorded with it mix with tracks recorded with the
other preamps you've mentioned? If you recorded your instruments with
API and Neve preamps and vocals with Gordon preamps, will they all sit
well together, or will the Gordon ones stand out too much?

The differences between mic preamps are much easier to hear when you
compare one preamp with another in a controlled situation, and even
then they're subtle enough so that some people will say it's like day
and night and others (hearing the same thing) will shrug and say
"yeah, I hear what you're talking about.

A preamp doesn't make a track stand out in a mix, but sometimes it
makes it easier to work with. Or, another way of looking at it is that
hearing what a source sounds like when recorded through a particular
preamp might inspire you to take the mix in a certain direction.
Alternately, the direction you want to take the project might
influence your choice of preamp.

You really should go out and listen. And if you find it hard to hear
differences, just buy something (or two different somethings if you
can afford it) and work with it for a while. If all you have is a
"colored" preamp, it won't stop you from making good recordings. If
all you have is a "transparent" preamp, it won't stop you from making
good recordings. They'll just sound a little different, and neither,
if it's good at what it does, whatever that is, will spoil your
project.

Subtlties are for people with plenty of experience and resources. It
sounds like you have money to throw around but not the experience.
Save some of your money for when you can appreciate what it will buy.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On 5 May 2005 11:33:26 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:

...

You really should go out and listen. And if you find it hard to hear
differences, just buy something (or two different somethings if you
can afford it) and work with it for a while. If all you have is a
"colored" preamp, it won't stop you from making good recordings. If
all you have is a "transparent" preamp, it won't stop you from making
good recordings. They'll just sound a little different, and neither,
if it's good at what it does, whatever that is, will spoil your
project.

Subtlties are for people with plenty of experience and resources. It
sounds like you have money to throw around but not the experience.
Save some of your money for when you can appreciate what it will buy.

I have this CD:
http://3daudioinc.com/3daudio_prelp.html

and I had a hard time telling any difference between pre's. I
suppose you (the OP) could buy this CD and/or rent a couple of the
models you're looking at, and see how they sound.

ISTR Mercenary had a similar CD.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

Subtlties are for people with plenty of experience and resources. It
sounds like you have money to throw around but not the experience.
Save some of your money for when you can appreciate what it will buy.

Can we make that part of the FAQ?

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On the other hand, making the correct high-end purchase early on can
open up a whole new world & be very educational...

Al

On Fri, 6 May 2005 10:00:51 -0400, Ty Ford
wrote:

Subtlties are for people with plenty of experience and resources. It
sounds like you have money to throw around but not the experience.
Save some of your money for when you can appreciate what it will buy.

Can we make that part of the FAQ?

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Steve Scott wrote:
If you get 8 channels of Gordon Instruments preamps you won't want
to
use anything else.

You will when you have a 65 volt ground fault wreck the front end.

Transformer isolation is a bad thing if you're looking for
transparency,
but it can save your okole when you're in a live recording situation
working with badly-grounded PA systems. Transformers are much more
forgiving of RF trash and high common mode noise.
--scott



Yes but the Gordons are designed to allow remote operation.

Steve

wrote:

Vague?

Yes.

OK, here are the details. I want 8 channels of preamp. I am going to go
in one of two routes:

[4 different pairs]

The second route, which I'll do if the above doesn't happen,
is to get a couple of four channel units from Mercenary,

Ie. the choice appears to be between 4 differently sounding preamps and
two differently sounding preamps with more channels each. The reply is
then: none of the above, get 8 identical micpres in case you want to use
them on the same recording. In case you want "special effects" preamps,
and that appears to be your wish, they go on top of it for deployment
when relevant.

What do you guys think?

Keep it simple, standardize to as few different "somethings" as possible
and you will maximize your flexibility.

It can not do rock if it can not do classical violin ..... at least when
we talk electronics. Many of those old vinyl rock albums that survive
sonically to this day and age seem to be those that were made with the
kit from the classical department of the company/studio that made it.

Gord


Kind regards

Peter Larsen
--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Peter Larsen wrote:

Keep it simple, standardize to as few different "somethings" as possible
and you will maximize your flexibility.

It can not do rock if it can not do classical violin ..... at least when
we talk electronics. Many of those old vinyl rock albums that survive
sonically to this day and age seem to be those that were made with the
kit from the classical department of the company/studio that made it.


Or simply were made when there was one set of "good kit" that was used
for everything (or at least everything that had the budget.)

In article writes:

On the other hand, making the correct high-end purchase early on can
open up a whole new world & be very educational...

But a beginner doesn't need to opeen up a new world, he needs to get
some experience in the real world. And he'll bet a better education
learning to use what real people use most of the time.

I don't mean to suggest that he buy junk, but that he buy decent
quality without going overboard on the cost and without agonizing abot
whether he's making the best choice out of a hundred (or a dozen)
possibilities.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo