I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:18:05 +1100, "Jeff"
wrote:

I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff



each car is different...kinda...

try it in your car and see what sounds best.

IN THEORY, id say facing away will sound better. If you do the math,
a bass wave length is like around 15 feet long. So pointing towards
the trunk allows for the chance of the sound bounceing off of the
trunk and giving it a longer distance before it hits your ear...thus
louder ... but, sometimes pointing them straight up sounds best.
THUS, i say it depends on the vechile

then again ... i am baseing my knowledge on junk i learnt thru out
engineering school... real world stuff is much different then
science!

IMHO it depends on the car and its coustics... gotta experiment to find
what works and what doesn't.
Gonna try pointing my powerbase 15 to the rear of my hatchback and
perforating the hatch cover lid.

Garrett

Jeff wrote:

I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

You shouldn't need to perforate the hatch cover. It's not thick enough to
affect the bass.


Paul Vina


"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
IMHO it depends on the car and its coustics... gotta experiment to find
what works and what doesn't.
Gonna try pointing my powerbase 15 to the rear of my hatchback and
perforating the hatch cover lid.

Garrett

Jeff wrote:

I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

i have heard putting subs at the back facing forward have mor
cancellation issues due to wave bouncing off the back end an
cancelling the front wave...i read it in a website... and according t
it.. subs facing back and as close to the trunklid or hatch USUALL
yeild best results..HOWEVER..i recommend you try them out and see what
better...shouldnt take too much effort
-
s7one
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=16622

s7oned wrote:

i have heard putting subs at the back facing forward have more
cancellation issues due to wave bouncing off the back end and
cancelling the front wave...i read it in a website...

You can also read about alien visits on websites too. At bass wavelengths (17
feet @ 60 Hz and much longer at lower frequencies) there just aren't any
"cancellation" issues going on in the car cabin.

In your living room the standing wave region will occur in the bass range
(roughly 30 to 300 Hz) but in a much smaller space this is shifted up by about
an octave (60 to 600 Hz in a small car.)

But even at 60 Hz any 'cancellations' will occur at a fraction of a wavelength
(200-300 Hz) and not at the fundamental.

and according to
it.. subs facing back and as close to the trunklid or hatch USUALLY
yeild best results.

Often it will; but not for the reasons stated on that website. The only
advantage of subwoofer orientation is that facing the woofer/port away from the
listener reduces the possibility that mid-range sounds and driver/box/port
noises will be less likely to be audible.

..HOWEVER..i recommend you try them out and see whats
better...shouldnt take too much effort.
--
s7oned

Good idea.

i have heard putting subs at the back facing forward have more
cancellation issues due to wave bouncing off the back end and
cancelling the front wave...i read it in a website...


You can also read about alien visits on websites too. At bass wavelengths (17
feet @ 60 Hz and much longer at lower frequencies)

(and shorter at higher frequencies)

there just aren't any
"cancellation" issues going on in the car cabin.

Sure there are. The wavelength is on the order of car size. A 9ft path
length difference is enough to put the 60 Hz wave completely out of
phase. A 90 degree shift requires only 4.5 feet. That can easily be
the path length difference that the poster was referring to.

In your living room the standing wave region will occur in the bass range
(roughly 30 to 300 Hz) but in a much smaller space this is shifted up by about
an octave (60 to 600 Hz in a small car.)

But even at 60 Hz any 'cancellations' will occur at a fraction of a wavelength
(200-300 Hz) and not at the fundamental.

You don't need 180 degree differences to create attenuation or any other
response irregularities. Even so, why are you ignoring the importance
of "higher" frequencies?

http://installer.com/tech/aiming2.html
Ok TOM, here are the tests I finally got around to running (today)
Unlike your BOGUS made up tests, I have pictures as well as
witnesses to back up my claims....

ha ha
Click on the link above to see what I did today...

I cant wait to hear your excuses....

Eddie Runner
http://installer.com/tech/aiming2.html

Nousaine wrote:

s7oned wrote:

i have heard putting subs at the back facing forward have more
cancellation issues due to wave bouncing off the back end and
cancelling the front wave...i read it in a website...

You can also read about alien visits on websites too. At bass wavelengths (17
feet @ 60 Hz and much longer at lower frequencies) there just aren't any
"cancellation" issues going on in the car cabin.

In your living room the standing wave region will occur in the bass range
(roughly 30 to 300 Hz) but in a much smaller space this is shifted up by about
an octave (60 to 600 Hz in a small car.)

But even at 60 Hz any 'cancellations' will occur at a fraction of a wavelength
(200-300 Hz) and not at the fundamental.

and according to
it.. subs facing back and as close to the trunklid or hatch USUALLY
yeild best results.

Often it will; but not for the reasons stated on that website. The only
advantage of subwoofer orientation is that facing the woofer/port away from the
listener reduces the possibility that mid-range sounds and driver/box/port
noises will be less likely to be audible.

.HOWEVER..i recommend you try them out and see whats
better...shouldnt take too much effort.
--
s7oned

Good idea.

"Jeff"


I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

Here's the deal on this. At subwoofer frequencies it makes no difference which
way the face of the woofer points. IOW, you can't aim a subwoofer.

On the other hand, it's often useful to face the driver/port away from the
listeners ears. This is because distortion products (higher harmonics), port
noise, suspension noise out-of-band artifacts and mid-range reflections off the
back wall of the enclosure radiated through the cone can help cause
localization. So facing the driver/port away from the listener so the cabinet
helps acoustically shadow these sounds can be useful.

Because acoustic sounds at subwoofer frequencies (approximately 100 Hz) are
omnidirectional the SPL/Frequency response will be uneffected either way.

Then how come it still makes a difference in a sealed box? And I do mean
sealed I tested my box under a vaccuum before putting the speakers in and I
seriously doubt air gets past the subs with what I used to seal it.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...
"Jeff"


I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

Here's the deal on this. At subwoofer frequencies it makes no difference
which
way the face of the woofer points. IOW, you can't aim a subwoofer.

On the other hand, it's often useful to face the driver/port away from the
listeners ears. This is because distortion products (higher harmonics),
port
noise, suspension noise out-of-band artifacts and mid-range reflections
off the
back wall of the enclosure radiated through the cone can help cause
localization. So facing the driver/port away from the listener so the
cabinet
helps acoustically shadow these sounds can be useful.

Because acoustic sounds at subwoofer frequencies (approximately 100 Hz)
are
omnidirectional the SPL/Frequency response will be uneffected either way.

did you not understand what you read or were you trying to reply to a
different post?


"Luke Hague" wrote in message
...
Then how come it still makes a difference in a sealed box? And I do mean
sealed I tested my box under a vaccuum before putting the speakers in and
I
seriously doubt air gets past the subs with what I used to seal it.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...
"Jeff"


I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to
have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

Here's the deal on this. At subwoofer frequencies it makes no difference
which
way the face of the woofer points. IOW, you can't aim a subwoofer.

On the other hand, it's often useful to face the driver/port away from
the
listeners ears. This is because distortion products (higher harmonics),
port
noise, suspension noise out-of-band artifacts and mid-range reflections
off the
back wall of the enclosure radiated through the cone can help cause
localization. So facing the driver/port away from the listener so the
cabinet
helps acoustically shadow these sounds can be useful.

Because acoustic sounds at subwoofer frequencies (approximately 100 Hz)
are
omnidirectional the SPL/Frequency response will be uneffected either
way.

I guess you didn't read Nousaine's post, which was what I was replying too,
which is in this thread.

"sancho" tR-003.at.ev1.dot.net wrote in message
...

did you not understand what you read or were you trying to reply to a
different post?


"Luke Hague" wrote in message
...
Then how come it still makes a difference in a sealed box? And I do
mean
sealed I tested my box under a vaccuum before putting the speakers in
and
I
seriously doubt air gets past the subs with what I used to seal it.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...
"Jeff"


I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to
have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff

Here's the deal on this. At subwoofer frequencies it makes no
difference
which
way the face of the woofer points. IOW, you can't aim a subwoofer.

On the other hand, it's often useful to face the driver/port away from
the
listeners ears. This is because distortion products (higher
harmonics),
port
noise, suspension noise out-of-band artifacts and mid-range
reflections
off the
back wall of the enclosure radiated through the cone can help cause
localization. So facing the driver/port away from the listener so the
cabinet
helps acoustically shadow these sounds can be useful.

Because acoustic sounds at subwoofer frequencies (approximately 100
Hz)
are
omnidirectional the SPL/Frequency response will be uneffected either
way.

Nousaine dont know ****.

He claims turnng your box to aim to the back
in a car makes no difference.... he needs to get out more
into the real world... Every punk kid with a woofer box knows
it does!

Luke Hague wrote:

I guess you didn't read Nousaine's post, which was what I was replying too,
which is in this thread.

Luke Hague wrote:
I guess you didn't read Nousaine's post, which was what I was replying too,
which is in this thread.


Nousaine? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

--
Lizard
Nousaine in the Membrane

"Luke Hague" wrote:

I guess you didn't read Nousaine's post, which was what I was replying too,
which is in this thread.

While I'm at it let me dispell another Urban Legend. Do you get more bass with
the hatch open? Only outside the car.

Inside you get significantly less. Why? You lose the cabin gain transfer
function effect whre the driver displacement pressurizes the interior at low
frequencies delivering 12 dB/octave reinforcement as frequency falls below the
lowest mode which occurs at 60 Hz in a small car.

How about the trunk? Sometimes not an issue because the trunk itself is a large
enough 'enclosure' to work with any woofer if it's an IB. If it's an IB, sealed
or ported enclosure and the wall separating the cabin and the trunk isn't
perfectly sealed you'll often lose transfer function gain as well.

In article ,
"Jeff" wrote:

I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff



the way that sounds the best in your car.

--
cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

try them both ways and choose the one that sounds best to you.
Most folks like the woofer box facing the rear of the car.

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html

Jeff wrote:

I been having a debate with some mates lately on which is better, to have
you subs facing the driver or out the back of the car?
any opinions

Jeff