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#1
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Arrays of small speakers
I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers
(multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? adthanksvance, -- Michael Salem |
#2
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Arrays of small speakers
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was
published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Cheers. On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? adthanksvance, |
#3
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Arrays of small speakers
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was
published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Cheers. On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? adthanksvance, |
#4
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Arrays of small speakers
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was
published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Cheers. On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? adthanksvance, |
#5
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Arrays of small speakers
Stu-R wrote:
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, -- Michael Salem |
#6
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Arrays of small speakers
Stu-R wrote:
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, -- Michael Salem |
#7
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Arrays of small speakers
Stu-R wrote:
The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, -- Michael Salem |
#8
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Arrays of small speakers
"Michael Salem" wrote in message T... Stu-R wrote: The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, Could you be thinking of the Jordan units? I recall he did a setup with a large number of his 4" full range drivers, and claimed great performance from the system. Those drivers used to be fairly reasonably priced, but that does not seem to be the case these days. Regards Ian |
#9
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Arrays of small speakers
"Michael Salem" wrote in message T... Stu-R wrote: The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, Could you be thinking of the Jordan units? I recall he did a setup with a large number of his 4" full range drivers, and claimed great performance from the system. Those drivers used to be fairly reasonably priced, but that does not seem to be the case these days. Regards Ian |
#10
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Arrays of small speakers
"Michael Salem" wrote in message T... Stu-R wrote: The speaker you're looking for was called the "Sweet Sixteen". It was published in popular electronics. Check the following link. http://www.eagle-wing.net/ClickPicks...pTronics.shtml Many thanks! '"Sweet Sixteen" loudspeaker system, published in the January 1961 issue of Popular Electronics.' I don't think this is the actual article I remember, which I believe had a lot of really small speakers, but of course I'm looking for anything that's there, not just what I read. Best wishes, Could you be thinking of the Jordan units? I recall he did a setup with a large number of his 4" full range drivers, and claimed great performance from the system. Those drivers used to be fairly reasonably priced, but that does not seem to be the case these days. Regards Ian |
#11
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Arrays of small speakers
Michael Salem wrote:
I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? Sure, there was a Popular Electronics article about a project called "The Sweet 16". It was composed of 16 el-cheapo AM radio speakers in a minimal box. This was around 1960. I heard one at the time in a local electronics store, and thought it was some kind of a sonic disaster. It realized every cliché about trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear etc. that you ever heard. Later on there was a sequel project called "The Sweet 16+1". It added a cheap tweeter. This was basically trying to put lipstick on a pig, polish a turd, you name it. In the day of "The Sweet 16", remarkably little was generally known about loudspeakers and loudspeaker systems, compared to what is known today. So, it can be excused on the grounds of general ignorance. The first problem was that the speakers the Sweet 16" was made out, of were systematically low-fi. The article argued that by combining many of them, the random variations would be evened out. In fact the speaker drivers were consistently low-fi. Then there was the problem of the Sweet 16" speaker array itself. When speakers are placed close together, a variety of complex interactions result. These tend to add many more frequency response variations on top of the many that might be present in the individual drivers themselves. It turns out that there is a similar array that can work, but it has 25 speakers, not 16. It's called a Bessel array N=25, and details relating to is can be found in some posts I made in the past few months. I recently built a Bessel Array N=5, and it works, but. When all is said and done, the Bessel array N=25 does not deliver 25 times the sound of one of the speakers that it is composed of. Some of the drivers must be connected with reversed polarity. The performance of about a quarter of the array is sacrificed to make the rest of the array work reasonably well. In the final analysis, you end up with a system that performs pretty much like just one of the drivers if you sit some distance from it. Close up is still not a pretty picture. However it does get considerably louder if you apply much more power. The economics of driver arrays are not always the best. It's generally easier and more practical to get more loudness with a larger high-performance driver, than with many little ones. Arrays of drivers can be justified when the largest drivers generally available are used to build them. The costs of larger higher performance drivers have fallen considerably, and therefore they should be used whenever possible. There are some very interesting things that can be done with driver arrays when they are driven by complex systems of power amplifiers and signal processors. But, they are justified only when simpler systems composed of fewer drivers, fewer amplifiers and simpler signal processors can't do the job. |
#12
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Arrays of small speakers
Michael Salem wrote:
I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? Sure, there was a Popular Electronics article about a project called "The Sweet 16". It was composed of 16 el-cheapo AM radio speakers in a minimal box. This was around 1960. I heard one at the time in a local electronics store, and thought it was some kind of a sonic disaster. It realized every cliché about trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear etc. that you ever heard. Later on there was a sequel project called "The Sweet 16+1". It added a cheap tweeter. This was basically trying to put lipstick on a pig, polish a turd, you name it. In the day of "The Sweet 16", remarkably little was generally known about loudspeakers and loudspeaker systems, compared to what is known today. So, it can be excused on the grounds of general ignorance. The first problem was that the speakers the Sweet 16" was made out, of were systematically low-fi. The article argued that by combining many of them, the random variations would be evened out. In fact the speaker drivers were consistently low-fi. Then there was the problem of the Sweet 16" speaker array itself. When speakers are placed close together, a variety of complex interactions result. These tend to add many more frequency response variations on top of the many that might be present in the individual drivers themselves. It turns out that there is a similar array that can work, but it has 25 speakers, not 16. It's called a Bessel array N=25, and details relating to is can be found in some posts I made in the past few months. I recently built a Bessel Array N=5, and it works, but. When all is said and done, the Bessel array N=25 does not deliver 25 times the sound of one of the speakers that it is composed of. Some of the drivers must be connected with reversed polarity. The performance of about a quarter of the array is sacrificed to make the rest of the array work reasonably well. In the final analysis, you end up with a system that performs pretty much like just one of the drivers if you sit some distance from it. Close up is still not a pretty picture. However it does get considerably louder if you apply much more power. The economics of driver arrays are not always the best. It's generally easier and more practical to get more loudness with a larger high-performance driver, than with many little ones. Arrays of drivers can be justified when the largest drivers generally available are used to build them. The costs of larger higher performance drivers have fallen considerably, and therefore they should be used whenever possible. There are some very interesting things that can be done with driver arrays when they are driven by complex systems of power amplifiers and signal processors. But, they are justified only when simpler systems composed of fewer drivers, fewer amplifiers and simpler signal processors can't do the job. |
#13
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Arrays of small speakers
Michael Salem wrote:
I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. I think this was published in magazines in the 1950s or 60s; I have the impression that Bose started out producing speaker systems this way. I don't remember and can't find the references. Can anybody please point me to information on this topic, either from that period or later? Sure, there was a Popular Electronics article about a project called "The Sweet 16". It was composed of 16 el-cheapo AM radio speakers in a minimal box. This was around 1960. I heard one at the time in a local electronics store, and thought it was some kind of a sonic disaster. It realized every cliché about trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear etc. that you ever heard. Later on there was a sequel project called "The Sweet 16+1". It added a cheap tweeter. This was basically trying to put lipstick on a pig, polish a turd, you name it. In the day of "The Sweet 16", remarkably little was generally known about loudspeakers and loudspeaker systems, compared to what is known today. So, it can be excused on the grounds of general ignorance. The first problem was that the speakers the Sweet 16" was made out, of were systematically low-fi. The article argued that by combining many of them, the random variations would be evened out. In fact the speaker drivers were consistently low-fi. Then there was the problem of the Sweet 16" speaker array itself. When speakers are placed close together, a variety of complex interactions result. These tend to add many more frequency response variations on top of the many that might be present in the individual drivers themselves. It turns out that there is a similar array that can work, but it has 25 speakers, not 16. It's called a Bessel array N=25, and details relating to is can be found in some posts I made in the past few months. I recently built a Bessel Array N=5, and it works, but. When all is said and done, the Bessel array N=25 does not deliver 25 times the sound of one of the speakers that it is composed of. Some of the drivers must be connected with reversed polarity. The performance of about a quarter of the array is sacrificed to make the rest of the array work reasonably well. In the final analysis, you end up with a system that performs pretty much like just one of the drivers if you sit some distance from it. Close up is still not a pretty picture. However it does get considerably louder if you apply much more power. The economics of driver arrays are not always the best. It's generally easier and more practical to get more loudness with a larger high-performance driver, than with many little ones. Arrays of drivers can be justified when the largest drivers generally available are used to build them. The costs of larger higher performance drivers have fallen considerably, and therefore they should be used whenever possible. There are some very interesting things that can be done with driver arrays when they are driven by complex systems of power amplifiers and signal processors. But, they are justified only when simpler systems composed of fewer drivers, fewer amplifiers and simpler signal processors can't do the job. |
#14
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Arrays of small speakers
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and
it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Lee Salter |
#15
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Arrays of small speakers
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and
it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Lee Salter |
#16
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Arrays of small speakers
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and
it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Lee Salter |
#17
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#18
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#19
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#20
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Arrays of small speakers
Lee Salter wrote:
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Um, don't you mean "avanced marketing"? geoff |
#21
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Arrays of small speakers
Lee Salter wrote:
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Um, don't you mean "avanced marketing"? geoff |
#22
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Arrays of small speakers
Lee Salter wrote:
I can recall reading an article back then by someone who built one and it supposedly was the greatest sounding thing in it's time (really big too). I can see the similarity to the Bose speakers. I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. Um, don't you mean "avanced marketing"? geoff |
#23
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Arrays of small speakers
Laurence Payne wrote:
On 5 Jun 2004 04:35:55 -0700, (Lee Salter) wrote: I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 ? geoff |
#24
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Arrays of small speakers
Laurence Payne wrote:
On 5 Jun 2004 04:35:55 -0700, (Lee Salter) wrote: I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 ? geoff |
#25
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Arrays of small speakers
Laurence Payne wrote:
On 5 Jun 2004 04:35:55 -0700, (Lee Salter) wrote: I think that probably the bigest difference is that the Sweet 16 was done experimentally and Bose actually applied physics and advanced math in designing their products. I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 ? geoff |
#26
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#27
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#28
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#29
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Arrays of small speakers
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:50:50 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 They were standard issue for theatre sound reinforcement in UK theatres a generation ago. Did a pretty good job, as I remember. |
#30
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Arrays of small speakers
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:50:50 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 They were standard issue for theatre sound reinforcement in UK theatres a generation ago. Did a pretty good job, as I remember. |
#31
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Arrays of small speakers
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:50:50 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: I've always wondered how Bose could get things so nearly right with their PA speakers - the 802 etc. - and so horribly wrong with their domestic stuff. What exactly do you find "right" about hte 802 They were standard issue for theatre sound reinforcement in UK theatres a generation ago. Did a pretty good job, as I remember. |
#32
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Arrays of small speakers
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem
wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. I built one myself with nine 4.5" Philips drivers, and was not impressed with the result. But then, I did not know what I was doing... Per. |
#33
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Arrays of small speakers
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem
wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. I built one myself with nine 4.5" Philips drivers, and was not impressed with the result. But then, I did not know what I was doing... Per. |
#34
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Arrays of small speakers
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem
wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. I built one myself with nine 4.5" Philips drivers, and was not impressed with the result. But then, I did not know what I was doing... Per. |
#35
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Arrays of small speakers
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren
wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/ |
#36
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Arrays of small speakers
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren
wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/ |
#37
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Arrays of small speakers
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren
wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/ |
#38
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Arrays of small speakers
Pat Farrell wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. A linear array doesn't have to be a comb filter, as used. But if built naively, that is a clear and present danger. |
#39
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Arrays of small speakers
Pat Farrell wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. A linear array doesn't have to be a comb filter, as used. But if built naively, that is a clear and present danger. |
#40
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Pat Farrell wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Per Stromgren wrote: On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:59 +0100, Michael Salem wrote: I remember seeing information on arrays of inexpensive small speakers (multiple small drive units in a single enclosure) for high-fidelity purposes. The problem with this approach is the displacement. Altough it seems like a good idea to use many small drivers instaed of one big, the small still have low xmax compared to the big cone, menaing that the max SPL is a lot lower than a single driver with the same area. The second major problem is that a linear array of speakers is a comb filter. A linear array doesn't have to be a comb filter, as used. But if built naively, that is a clear and present danger. |
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